MNK's Pfs Log: Fasting, did near all else and will do TEI and run Simple Electros (all yr). --80-90%

MNK99

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1. Introduction

Hey everyone. What's happening? I attempted some juice feasting and breuss fasting. Mostly I messed up.
Then I did a 20 day fast - explained in a later post. -As well as 5d and 6d right before. So 31days and 14-21 Juice Feasting (like CD recommends for many).
-so like: 45day to 52. Probably a bit more, but WATER FASTING WAS KEY.

I am working on healing from PFS and getting back my health and mental acuity. I am working on my own protocol with additions from various members here, and eventually getting to something else that will be explained later.

I apologize if this seems confusing/disjointed. I wanted to log just the fast and experiments to resolve PFS, but wanted to offer support to those with PSSD as well.

-There's a TL;DR* at the end.

1.A. Effexor XR side effects and aftermath:

-PSSD/ Drug-induced mania: Taken 2007-2008 (stopped in winter). Mostly Effexor XR. = resolved 2010-2011?
-Cause: Misdiagnosed with G.A.D.


I had very severe side effects from Effexor XR in 2007-2008 and after it affected my mood and emotions and weight, but I succeeded in fixing it. I didn't know what PSSD was really, until I already was semi cured.

I overcame that. I honestly don't know how... My family was financially supportive, not so much emotionally. I resented them at times, and we argued a lot for years. But when I got better results in work, school, and in life - they were happier. But they still don't get it and I don't expect them to. I wish someone stopped me from taking finasteride tho....
A HUGE part of recovery was moving away from the city in which my life was destroyed. Making new friends, and quitting bad habits like drinking, and just starting from a clean slate.

-Journalling, jogging, and lifting weights helped. As did some meditation (not my strongest suit - it takes practice).

-I am sure I had some of the worst symptoms from Antidepressants. I took Effexor, and some other SSRI's. I had severe memory impairments and impaired judgement.
-I moved out of my city and lived with relatives in Europe briefly. then came back and moved to the east coast from the western part of the country.
-I had many blackouts while on Effexor. I was drinking a lot as well. I was completely out of character.
-this was a combination of triggered mania + addiction + not knowing ADHD + not knowing manic/depressive tendencies + memory loss from meds + manipulative friends. It was a very bad situation. thankfully I survived and fixed that. To be honest for a while I didn't care whether I lived or died. Later, I was fuelled by vengeance/rage. Neither are ways we should live.
-I had like 3-6 straight months of horrible Mania. Trust me that's bad.
-It took like 4 years to realize about the ADHD and another 1-2 to realize that I was manic then and possibly at other points in time.

--I moved October 2008 to Europe briefly. And then came back to N.A. and tried my best to force myself to go to university, and work... I didn't do well for a year or so, slowly got better and better.
Resolved.

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2. ADHD/Mood and Substance Issues: Proper Diagnosis
-Before anxiety disorder and the drinking I was pretty "straight edge". After Effexor there was stimulant and alcohol abuse and trying different things...
-Then in mid 20's just prescription stimulants and occasional other stuff. Drinking wasn't fun after a few years so in my early 20's I realized I need something... else.
-I remember writing in my journals at my first year in the east coast, that "I need dexedrine or adderall." I wrote a lot of stuff, though and didn't seek diagnosis nor treatment till a few years later.
-Practically all my initial substance use (of any kind) was to mask anxiety or slow my thinking down... and be more productive. Not the right way to cope, but I was looking for something after the hole in my heart that Effexor XR and being forced to leave my home a wreck at 22. It didn't go away without a lot of hardship (addictive tendencies).

-Aside from that:
-Struggling in school and work and relnships at large, for years, I was finally correctly diagnosed with ADHD (long suspected it) at 26 years young. It explained a lot:

-Illegal stimulant abuse on and off for 2-3 years. Obviously not good... But helped my ADHD. It was self medication. (Still better than AD's and fin).
-Honestly, I think it helped my PSSD too. *Again*, I do not recommend this.
-In mid 20's I started ADHD meds, but I was already 85% done my degree. They were definitely helpful.

-I'm fine with it when medicated and I stay away from substances that really harm me like alcohol. Right now I'm using none. I quit alcohol a few years prior (95% less drinking) and I quit smoking at 23. I quit illicit stimulants (mostly) by 26 or so. I used rx stimulants for 3.5 years.
-I'll always have it and some related mood issues... but for now I'm tackling PFS so I can be healthy enough to properly deal with this and my career. One thing at a time.
-I did well most years but was underperforming until I was on the right prescription stimulant and took precautions. Then 3.5 years later I trialled Lamotrigine for a related "disorder" (dual diagnosis).
-This was Lamotrigine -- it caused hair loss very quickly in weeks. I took it 89 days. It did make me happier and did elevate my mood and turned dysphoria into euphoria, but it was short-lived.

Self-medicating was fine enough at 18-20... I was practically out of my mind at 21-22. And I got better but still abused alcohol till 24, and one stimulant in particular I substituted alcohol with and I think I quit that mostly by 25-26. Occasional use here and there, but with prescription stimulants and exercise and being on the right path again, I didn't need it. And I obviously didn't like how "self-medicating" substances made me feel. Really alone especially in my early 20's. I felt a huge relief and like I could still be who I want to be when I got a good psychologist and then reluctantly saw a psychiatrist (who I like a lot as well).
-This was until I got a dual diagnosis. It got worse: generalized anxiety disorder --> very bad ADHD and cognitive issues to --> ADHD + something else (supposedly affecting 6 areas of the brain. With ADHD affecting the frontal lobe and being an executive function disorder (I mean "real ADHD"), and this one making it worse). The other supposed disorder has a 10x higher chance of having ADHD.
-And acc to Dr. Russell Barkley is one of the most devastating psychiatric/neurological combinations someone can have after Schizophrenia and Autism. It could always be worse though! And I'm not sure what's real anyways at times. If I have the second disorder - I'm relatively high-functioning most the time. If I just have ADHD, well I struggled even more than most of them. Life is complicated.

-I was fine enough but lacking something in just treating ADHD -- but being functional, confident, and having charm/personality, and hobbies, and a few close friends is enough --- no one is perfect.
-Med class 1 ruined me, med class 2 (and illegal stimulants initially - later they made me really sad and friends wanted me to quit.) helped me a ton, med class 3 could have gone either way but led me to finasteride. -- which was a disaster.

Pre finasteride and most of adulthood I was physically healthy at least. And physically and mentally healthy (best I can) with stimulant meds. It's all a risky situation, but life is full of risks.

I knew who I was, and what my values were, and where I was going - most of my mid 20's till now. It got kind of lost when I had the issue of dual diagnosis but I ignored it as long as I could... and then Finasteride ruined this. But not for too long. Because for all the bullshit, stress and lost time, and missed opportunities in my life --- I know I'm not to be written off and am definitely not weak. I couldn't be killed then, I can't be killed now.

Ongoing (dual diagnosis). When treated it's better but I can only treat one... treating both would be ideal but it's too messy.
And right now no meds no substances except coffee and nicotine vaping. In the future I will treat ADHD again bc it truly helped me a lot. Structure, organization, goals, work, day-to-day functioning.

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3. Post-finasteride:

PFS Background: Taken Jan 18th to June 2017. = working on it.
-Cause: Finasteride.


-Always against this toxic med, I took it after trying to balance Lamotrigine's side effects. I wanted to take Lamo + Dex (or see if it was suitable). Instead I added Fin and never took the dex and also Lamotrigine stopped working. I discontinued both these (actually useful meds) and stayed on Finasteride.
-When I first started finasteride, I didnt know what was going on, but I had stayed in my apartment mostly for a couple weeks, whereas I was looking for jobs, walking, buying groceries, and working out at 2 gyms just a few weeks prior.
-Went to Mexico, and had a sexual crash there. I thought lamotrigine was lowering libido/or I had depression, but it was Finasteride. I quit lamotrigine after 3 months and finasteride after 4.5months (June).

Now I have PFS... and it's been maybe 6 months, and I had side effects on it, but I thought maybe it was depression/ lamotrigine. When I quit and a bit later saw my face looked different plus sexual sides... and the depression, and isolation I was in - I realized something's very wrong.

Current focus.
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4. Executive Summary:

TL;DR:

-Summary: Overweight in teens, healthy at 17-20. Antidepressants - Adverse Drug Reaction. Fixed, fit again 23-till recently.
-Fixed pssd at 22-24 mostly... but I could have used stimulants back then, school would have been far less traumatic. I would have transferred to a better school, had I been stable at the time.
-I beat PSSD and Effexor effects including SSRI/SNRI-induced mania.

-At 24-26 I was doing better and ADHD meds really really helped me. I had unresolved issues and that prompted me to seek differential diagnosis. Hence, I was diagnosed as also likely having something else(I think a mistake, and "labels" are just that - labels).
-I tried lamotrigine in 2016's end and it made me have diffuse hair loss. I had it on stimulants initially too but I stopped it.
This was a lot of hair loss, so in Jan 2017 I tried finasteride.
-Physically Healthy at 25-29.75 yrs of age... Until I tried finasteride. Improved every year until then.

My symptoms:

Mental/Neurological:
-Depression (severe), Loss of personality, Anxiety.
-Seem less sharp... less funny, less outgoing (understatement!)
-Brainfog (confusion)
-Anhedonia.
-Hard to listen to music, watch movies. Reading is not fun anymore.
-Tired. I was severely fatigued. I think I still am. But maybe a bit less. I did do short fasts earlier in winter.
- confusion, not the same emotions I usually have. Like "I love that song!". Unemotional with people too.

Sidenote:
I love music and can barely listen to it right now.
-trying to listen to music a bit more.


Physical:
-Weight gain
-vision changed after 14 years of near the same... Double vision, both eyes changed. Right eye was good enough to not need glasses much before this.
-Face: Eyes are sunken in, face seems rounder.
-I may be wrong: chin bone seems smaller.
-Pain in between knuckles on fingers and toes... Joint or bone? not sure.
-Urological/sexual symptoms
-Water retention/ water weight gain.
-Slower growing Facial hair
-slower growing body hair (I wish these 2 were the only side effects!!!)

Anyways I have a lot of symptoms... And almost worst of all, I was finally doing well in life. I had decided what I don't want to do. Had started doing improv and wanted to do youtube or some acting things... It's kind of late now. But, I knew I would not be happy in some professional careers. And I knew I could make things work and get more experience with the help of my ADHD medicine (which I consider a godsend). Now I'm not taking that, and even if I was -- PFS has hit me badly.

***Plan going forward***:
-Day 2 fasting for now.
-Then trying zinc finger if I can get all the materials. -I did try copper, magnesium, potassium for a few days it did help sexual sides a bit.
-I did try Histidine and Cysteine...want to fast 14-21.
And also: try Lithium Orotate/ Lithium Aspartate as an antidepressant and mood lifter. Maybe medical grade cannabis CBD. -->FUCK THIS LIST/better one soon.

-I know drugs are mostly bad... but my life would have been so so much easier had I skipped the antidepressants and been on say ritalin or dexedrine in my early 20's rather than mid 20's and now this one year break.

-I've been confident, healthy, lean, outgoing, even happy at times... I want that back and more and I will fight for it.
-I need to get my killer instinct back and I will. No matter what.

June-Aug 2o18.: I'm a "Killer" again. BUT guess what?? NEED to reign it in, and kp consistent moods. Damn it all... but, that's fine. Doing well. - Aug. 4th 2018 - 6.20pm.
Also need more... in life. UPDATE: --> AUG. 13th -- KILLING IT!!!!!!!!!!

 
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Canari

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accutane, finasteride, and antidepressants
You survived the 3 of them!
Right, vanity is not the best friend... When you think, find the emotion making you think, when you get the e-motion, find the movement in the body, then help it move away more with a shower or whatever!

I read it little, but aren't most people angry here? Like against the medical system... and even if doctors do their bast and are abused, let's say by labs, well we can still be angry and want to kill them! At least their image, or twist their neck the kitchen towel... :mad::eek::D
 
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Canari

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May be you want just something warm? Sometimes I drink warm water. I would go for herbal more than real tea but who knows how work all the medicinal effects!
 
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Orion

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Been trying hot water. i will continue with that. it does help because I feel cold its like "tea".

Maybe if I get a craving, I'll do some pushups - not to exhaustion, just a tiny bit to take my mind off of it.

Hot decaf coffee or decaf teas will work too
 
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Orion

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On my long Bruess fast I used the rec'd teas, along with decaf coffee and all sorts of decaf teas.

"The default Breuss protocol is the veggie juice up to 1/2 liter per day, 3 liters of Sage tea (with st. john's wort, peppermint, and lemon balm tea added), and 3/4 cups of Kidney Tea (horsetail, nettle, knotgrass, st. johns wort) taken in 1/4 cup portions 3x daily." I was able to find all these herbs in packaged in tea bags at a local health food store.




Here is mattyb's protocol, but this is really for long fasts, short fasts can be broken with lemon/egg soup. Soupa Avgolemono Egg-Lemon Soup) Recipe - Genius Kitchen


Days 1-7
Focus on mineral intake, particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium
Calories will still be low at this point, you'll likely regain some water weight but continue to lose fat
Vegetable broths, soups, well cooked vegetables, cooked leafy greens, etc.
Maybe some rice
Minimal herbs/spices
A bit of fats (eggs, butter) mixed in with the soups
Not very much protein, if any
Introduce food/calories slowly

Days 7-21
Anything from days 1-7 would be fine
Calorie intake will be slightly low, trending towards maintenance near the third week
Fresh vegetables and greens marinated in olive oil/vinegar
Some herbs/spices
More rice, maybe some well-cooked oats, small amounts of fruit, possibly small amounts of tubers
Small amounts of well cooked meat/seafood daily (slow roasted would be a good option)
Increase fat and protein gradually to get pancreas and gallbladder up to speed over these two weeks.

Days 21+
Everything from before is fine
Calories should be around maintenance near this point
By this point you should be able to exercise easily
More fruit, more carbohydrates (according to activity levels)
More foods high in manganese (oats, cereals, etc.) if well tolerated
More meat (and/or supplement zinc)
Tubers could be introduced if well tolerated
 
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Canari

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Been trying hot water. i will continue with that. it does help because I feel cold its like "tea".

Maybe if I get a craving, I'll do some pushups - not to exhaustion, just a tiny bit to take my mind off of it.

That's what I thought, you felt cold and needed a hot drink 1st and foremost! You can also use the slow drinking method when you have cravings. Imagine this is not hunger but thirst! Also I noticed I needed to drink more during fast.
 

MNK99

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-replaced here(shortened log) : Thanks for posting that @Orion and @mattyb for the original post.
-Hey... I have progesterone coming in. I might try that while fasting or after fasting. Or is this way too risky?
Is progesterone cream unsafe? Will it lower test?
-Edit: I decided I'll try Ella for now. I hope that I'll get rapid gains on that. I realize now to take it alone. I considered running it alongside a d-a and anti-prolactin med.
-Thanks @TubZy for suggesting I take it alone.
-Discussing with some of you, I'll take Ella after refeeding a week. Fine, I'll wait, FINE!
 
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MNK99

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Update:
-I saw a doctor (g.p) he did not prescribe Ru486 to my dismay. He req'd tests for Calcium, magnesium, prog, cortisol, thyroid, SHBG, Prolactin, etc.
-He'll send me to an endocrinologist.
-I'll get tested tomorrow, fasted.

-Can I add histidine, cysteine or cu, mg, k and such? Or just wait it out... keep fasting and take nothing besides water and some breuss, decaf tea, decaf black coffee.
-I know above I said I want to try the Ru/ella... and I will, but I feel like adding something ***NOW*** may help?
-I have ellaone on order - hopefully it makes it in a few weeks or less (Gold Pharma).

-I have Cu, Mg, K, Hist, cyst, betaine, Zn, and aminos on hand... Not that I'm using them just yet.

Also I have Pine Pollen. @gbolduev Any of these suitable during fasting? This is before I add Ella by itself (assuming I receive my package). I will run Ella or RU clean -- but for now I mean. Please let me know... I'd greatly appreciate it.

Update - Feb 18th 2018:
NO. Don't take any of that during fasting. Just fast. NO MINS no SUPPS ideally no tea no coffee, ideally decaf (not sure it matters, decaf makes me sick).
WHEN IN DOUBT - WATER FAST (FOR ME). IF YOUR SYSTEM ALLOWS IT, JUST WATER FAST.

SAVED MY LIFE END OF FEB and MARCH... OR JAN AND FEB.
 
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MNK99

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Paging Dr. @gbolduev. Code 666.
At your earliest convenience.
 
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MNK99

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Just to confirm that @gbolduev seems to be right about Finasteride being a progestin, I will add some screenshots from Danny Roddy's video "The Truth about Finasteride".
I found this interesting. Maybe explaining some of this to a doctor can help me get Ru/Ella sooner.
Not so sure about it being a progestin, now.


Update: Jan 17
I will post what values I have.
I need a new family doctor... that's okay.

I'll post values here when I get home.
Progesterone seemed high and SHBG seemed high.
 
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MNK99

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Interesting stuff re: neurosteroids, progesterone, and psychiatric disorders:

https://openarchive.ki.se/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10616/41207/Thesis_Anette_Johansson.pdf?sequence=5

"Pharmacologically, a potent progesterone receptor antagonist is mifepristone or RU486 which has an effect on progesterone receptors at doses much lower than those required for glucocorticoid receptor blockade (0.5-1mg/kg compared with 4-6mg/kg) (Spitz and Bardin, 1993). Mifepristone has in phase 2 and 3 studies been given in high doses yielding antiglucocorticoid effect to persons with psychotic depression without major effect on depressive symptoms (Nihalani and Schwartz, 2007), perhaps unsurprising as another study examining high dose treatment w this showed increased immobility in rats...
one polymorphism has been associated with increased risk for panic disorder in women (Ho et al., 2004).

1.3.4.4 Progesterone – Psychiatric Disorders and Behaviour
Schizophrenia:

2 small studies indicated higher prog in males with SCHZ (Taherianfard and Shariaty, 2004). The studies were not adjusted for age.

Mood Disorders:
Progesterone has long been suspected of having depressogenic effects in humans given the occurrence of premenstrual dysphoria in some women at a time of very high progesterone concentrations. Studies examined this, finding evidence for changes in GABAA receptor sensitivity to allopregnanolone and to the rapid change in progesterone concentrations in the premenstrual period in women with premenstrual dysphoria.

A single injection of progesterone in women during follicular phase which brings progesterone and allopregnanolone concentrations in serum to luteal phase concentrations has been found to increase amygdala response to fearful faces (van Wingen et al., 2008) whilst coupling of the amygdala with the medial prefrontal cortex also was increased. It was hypothesized that this coupling may correlate with a tendency to ruminate on negative events. Conversely, increased PROG decreased fearful response.

W.R.T. BP Disorder, luteal phase progesterone (7-10 days prior to menses) was noted to be higher in euthymic bipolar women than controls (Hardoy et al., 2006), uncertainty. Difficult to draw conclusions, not tested in men w/ BPD.
 
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MNK99

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*I think* I'm getting ellaone soon.

Definitely do not take it while fasting?
Can I tho? to save time?
I will update blood tests soon. Making a table is proving difficult.
--> No don't. I took time, 2 weeks plus. AFTER 38 40 45%... I rushed more at times, with no ill consequence.

To be honest:
I messed up a lot during fasting. I freaked out or got impatient. I screwed up fasting a few times. It was feeling really down bc I've already been through adverse drug reactions before and I felt like I ruined my life for no reason, just a few years after turning it around. Anytime I broke it, I mostly ate very light, and barely any food. It was like a large intermittent fast. But, not quite a detox/cleanse.

I got over that:
So I'm on day 9 now. Had some breuss (250ml) for a few days and some decaf coffee. Decaf tea made me feel very nauseated. I stopped that am just doing water for day 8-day 14 I think. I'd like to do more, but I may have to work at a family business soon. Additionally, I am going to be doing interviews soon, I'd really like to do them when I'm healthier at least by 40%. I wish I could express ella and r-andro here immediately.

My plan is something like this:
-I was trying to buy something... Schischandra, etc... I was so sick couldn't find name. Waste of time, fuck it just fast.
-Continue Fasting.
-Refeed a couple weeks (I'll do what MattyB suggested).
-RU or Ella a small dosage 10mg maybe... I might do more. I have 3 pills of ella coming, 30mg. So Maybe 5mg x 6 days. And save the other 2 pills for other trials.
-R-Andro cycle and back to lifting weights. (Light jogging for now during fast).
-ARL mineral recommendations.
-(
Possibly) -"Improved health protocol" as per Feb 5th 2018
-Likely rinsing and repeating various parts of this. Like ella-->R-andro (or an alternative?), get fitter, then back again.

I may skip the R-Andro. I believe it will help me a lot with neurosteroid production and gaba-mediated dopamine effects. Prior to the R-Andro. Ella will hopefully lower prog and make me more influenced by androgens. I'm sure it will help as I've read/talked to @TubZy and @IHateFin about it.

But I need my hair! It was the source of all my power. But I also need my eyes to look normal again. I don't know, I can't control everything. Nyways update l8r.

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UPDATE: USED LOTS OF R-ANDRO --- it was 1000% worth it. BUT YMMV and it isn't helpful to several maybe even many members.
 
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Canari

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So you are on day 9 of real fast? How are you feeling?
 
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Nina

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How long are you planning on fasting? 30 days?
 
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Nina

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I think a short time. Bc I may need to go to an office soon and also am looking for writing jobs. I want at least 14. I think I can manage more, but people around me are wondering wtf is going on with me. I think refeeding, ella, and then zinc finger or R-andro will help digestion, mood, focus a lot. So I can act more normal.

May have to do longer to totally kill brain fog and depression. What do you think ? @Nina.

I would go for 30 days. You are on day 10 already. If you make this a long fast, you can take a break for a few months instead of having to start over. To be honest it is not that hard if you can stay strong mentally and not give in to food cravings. I don’t think (water) fasting will bother you while working. It doesn’t bother me.

What is your height/weight at the moment?
 

MNK99

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-I haven't checked in a few days, but it was 187. Now probably 185 or so. 6 feet. Shoot, a longer fast may be in my best interest I think so too. I'm probably 17-19% body fat or so. I haven't checked. I was like 13-14% before taking this medicine. --> BROKE THE FAST as NATURAL HUNGER RETURNED, perfect time acc. to many.
-THX, MattyB, Bruschi, Nina, Orion, and others for showing me the way, IHFin, Tubzy, Helen as well.
-BEFORE this: D10, not bad. Waiting mail., sup to get Ella today. Thanks not gonna lie hard to remain happy calm or even optimistic or hopeful at times, but getting better. GOT IT!!! :)
 
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Nina

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Yeah, i think it would be best for you to keep going for up to 30 days and stay clean after that (no supps, only diet) for a month to see where you’re at and start experimenting with ella after that.
 
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MNK99

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Sidenote: *Warning* To everyone considering Effexor or Pristiq:

My anxiety was horrible at 18 - 20 years old. Also very bad surrounding PFS, but around 10x better than a few months ago.
Not to beat a dead horse. Effexor XR is no joke. It "cured" my anxiety and made me have no inhibitions nor proper emotions. I rapidly became someone I didn't recognize. Until it was too late. You need some anxiety to function as a normal human being. Wrote about it disjointedly on here. Also I was nowhere near as "crazy" pre effexor vs post-effexor. I think it happened at the higher doses, like 150-225mg. Nearly ruined my academic and professional career. Almost cost me my life. Don't do it. Effexor. NOT EVEN ONCE. It stole my soul. And I got it back... once at least.
 
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