Is my low energy from histamine-MAO-serotonine-dopamine-copper issue?

[Canari]

My general goal as a woman beginning her 50's is to have more energy and solve some muscle pain issues, gut, liver detox and be able to stand more stress. This has very old roots, but I do not like the rapid way things are worsening for me.
I live in the country side, I have my own garden, I am lean and I have always eaten a quite good diet with very little processed food. I need a gluten-free diet.
My general "hello" is here: http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78
My labs are here: http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=79

Then..?
What can you do for these problems?

OK!!! So I follow the advise to state all in chronological order. More or less, what I have now is not new apart from what is getting worse because of some life events. I mean my weaknesses were there. I still feel it is reversible, as I got things better in several fields.
The 2 bad things for me:
- Stress.
- A diet with dairy and sugar.

As I stated in my presentation, me as a fetus did not have a good metabolic environment from ethanol and other gases (in a lab). Poor mom poor me. (Mom passed recently from leukemia.) Liver, pancreas and digestion was not the best from the start. Normal birth but at 8 months, breastfed 4 months. As a very young child I already had digestive issues, I suffered from otitis age 4, antibiotics of course, but then I have been with homeopathy, for all the colds and sore throats I have had. I have always been a calm and bullied child interested in studies. But also an outdoor and nature person! I started gardening at 6 years old. I needed motivation and passion, as I had no strong adrenaline urge to be moving all the time as other children.
-> From my studies, I now know this is a characteristic coming from peri-natal trauma, all before 6 months old. It is worse than a fight and flight response, because it has gone further, to the collapse response, called freeze, to get the 3rd F...
I am sure this will show in the hair analysis, or else i will not believe in the analysis! Because what I have means I am in parasympathetic state, but with a high running sympathetic system, underneath, almost invisible.

- My temps were as low as 35º5C as a child, generally near 36ºC. Pulse 60. Easily feeling cold, you bet!
- I had dermographism (histamine)
- I hardly believe I was told to be a constipated baby, as I remember only being ...too fast. At 11, an iridologist said I had a week pancreas.
- Food as a child: I ate all, it was home cooked with salad fruits and very ordinary food like rice and pasta, meat or fish at lunch, always a piece of cheese, soups... I hated when they brought home wholemeal rice and pasta... (instinct about gluten and phytic acid?) I could have dairies and even milk, except when started UHT. I loved butter but my mom cooked with sunflower margarine, lol pufas!
Little sugar and I hated fizzy drinks.
- I don't remember any acute digestive problem apart from throwing up bile because I was forced to eat when I had a flue in bed. (you need strength!). All my digestive problems are chronic only: Bullet proof to any strong acute gut issue.
- Frequent sore throats with some fever. Tendency to have sensitive lymph nodes, big red tonsils all the time, and sensitive salivary glands.

- As a teenager I started to inquire about nutrition and digestion! I remember been treated with cholagogues for bile, antispasmodic also for gall bladder and guts, and loads of magnesium with B6.
- No wonder I had appendicitis at 16!
- At 17 I got sugar in urine, thus got tested: they make you drink glucose syrup and test blood several times: my glycemia went down too slow. I was just told to not eat sugar... I tended to be tired easily.
- As a student I had a period with more starch and pufas, and using fructose powder instead of sugar. I had to take charcoal, efficient for my colon pains that could literally stop me and bend me. I also suffered some stomach pains.

- Hormones: I must have something wrong... almost sure I was sterile too. What is sure is that I got my periods as late as 15 and that my breast never developed. Very very light periods, often 3 days only. I had a bit more pms as a teen than later, but it was never too bad, maybe one day I knew that my periods were due the next day (lower belly both sides pain or just upset). I had sensitive breasts for nearly a week before. I have had some cysts sometimes, but resolved alone.
- Sport: I was a long distance and orienteering runner. I was horse riding. Started back and neck problems because of a fall.
The main problem was pains and aches. I was not doing anything intensive, but any sport would hurt a lot. I stopped running at 25 for a tendon problem at the knees, but this resolved with time. I worked as an outside guide but it was never draining me, as it was all day and not intensive. I know that we re-burn the lactic acid we produce!
- I think I am a slow oxidizer because I loved moving but would do it only from a passion/motivation. My problem is to start, and then to stop.
- Oh yes, I would not have worked indoor, as bright lights and even a mall would give me headaches! I had low grade migraine already as a teen, from the neck to the eyes, both sides but more on the left.

XXI th century!
I was quite ok until the turn of the century, i was doing very interesting things and innovative in education, and apart from guts and candida, and hypotension, I was feeling I had finally opened as a flower, after being a long time shy bud. I was never angry (too parasympathetic, so no glory! ), but a very stubborn fighter.
They finally found out my gluten problem (an homeopath that was not even MD! he was working with a russian testing machine).
2 major problems, though I did not know the consequences at this time.
- Viral dysplasia and surgery at the uterus, with a shock due to a stupid anesthetist. The only good part is that I had to stop having a IUD (copper...)
- A dentist who said she could remove "safely" my mercury fillings... 6 or 7 in very little months, with only some homeopathic drops as drainage... I started to think about changing life, and hoped that the 2 years after going gluten-free would save me... It did not.
- 2 years... changed life. I have been diagnosed with starting fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue and also had sinusitis, that I solved going dairy-free.
- diet: nearly paleo: meat and veggies, some fruits and some carb and some nuts.

I would not be surprised if I had too much calcium in my body, thus the pains and fibrosis. I guess also copper accumulation. What they cannot help me for, does-not-exist, punto! I decided Ii would beat what they said could not be... "She did not know it was impossible, so she made it" I have some analysis for this period. Well, I was the type of person whose analysis came back normal, and told "it is in your head". Finally I found a doctor that went a little further.
- I have IgG from Lyme, toxoplasmose and EBV.
- I am allergic to molds (parents house, so all chilhood)
I got some homeopathy, and the IgG from Lyme went down. I also got vitamine D and lugol for iodine, as those 2 were low.
- He also said I was too low in progesterone and gave me a cream. I did not use it long and did not notice anything.
- I got twice some intramuscular magnesium, it seemed that it worked like this, and not the oral route.
- I could not finish jaw stabilisation, I have a problem with TMJ. Left side as all my problems.

2010. No more fibromyalgia.
But not only from the above! I did some detox, I studied Somatic Experiencing and learned to care about the nervous system. I am sensitive to stress but also have some sort of strength, as I never was totally down or anxious. Yes as many, I have been depressed and even thought that life was no more worth living, and i can still be low, but I know everything changes, so I hold on...

The real problem of life changing is to not have long time friends, and meet friends that already have long time friends... If I do not have this and if my life is useless, that is sad. i have changed the life of some children and I would have done more if it were not for all this SH**!
I think I have some access to survival strength coming from my before birth experience... But I can always feel there is something that is not solved at the bottom IN MY PHYSIOLOGY. I know to good how to survive, but not enough how to live. I will be awkward in a normal situation, and fully me when time is counted and action is needed. I might be tired just because I carry an "extra tank of fuel" that I keep closed and ready just in case! I am sure these sorts of personality details, the use of the sympathetic nervous system, is perfectly visible in hair analysis. We'll see!
I had tried a 1st time to forget about my former life, I lived in the city, had a normal life with a normal boyfriend, but finally I did not find it normal and realized it was crazy to live like this. I left my 2nd past again, and back to nature, with the sun I need.

During a few years, I did not even know any more what crying meant. But then I got really bad pressure on me, mainly from building, and abuse because people here are very incompetent. Also (what tourists never get to know) a place with drugs and white stuff. It also ruined my relationship. I was starting to be tired, but felt strong and thus was unconscious! I had gut problems again and discovered that I had to stop all starches. Only bananas were fine, and I kept some rice, white and sweat potatoes sometimes. In 2015 I finished with the headaches, with a mix personal + somatic experiencing method.
Even without dying my hair, people gave me between 5 and 8 years less than my age. I can walk up and down the steep mountain paths, my knees are still ok. I can work in my garden. But still...

• I can be active like gardening, but the pain will arrive when the body gets cold and rest.

• Stiff Achilles tendon when I wake up.

• Gold and tennis elbow without playing any, this is not fair! :roll:

• 2 years with hot flushes, they seem to have gone recently.

• Pms has never been strong. I have had a copper IUD, a few years but not that many.

 

[Canari]

Re: I want more up and down facility in my energy levels

<r>General stuff:
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I do not smoke, but have sometimes. Never got hooked, but notice the relaxing effect, and some ease on a heavy stomach after a meal.</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I cannot say I am alcohol intolerant, but I need very little to feel a little <E>:?</E> The only time I drank enough to throw up, it was because I did not know there was that much alcohol in the fruit juice! Sangria in a Balear island....</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I got white hair young</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I used to have oil skin and hair, but no more, mainly due to having soft water now. Shoulders still are though...</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I sunburned as a child but not as an adult, even with white skin!</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Quite a few grains growing on my skin, and those tiny little polyps, especially neck zone.<br/>
  But very little brownish spots on my hands.</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Tendency to get ruby spots. Then seem to be associated with liver problems. Real red color!</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Got stretch marks and some cellulite only after having eaten sugar those last 2 years...</LI><e>

</e></LIST></r>

 

[Canari]

Re: I want more up and down facility in my energy levels

<r>Then I went into RPeat ideas, and thought that I was too high in fats and that I could stimulate my body to burn sugar! Well, no.................................................... And my 2015 blood tests said no, you are not hypothyroid, and RPeaters telling me yes you are, take thyroid, only signs are important. Right... I loose some hair, it does not grow more than to the shoulders. I have lost outside of eyebrows and also lower legs hairs, and I am easily cold.<br/>
- My fasting glycemia is always high and has always be. My glycemia goes down slower than normal which indicates I think some insuline resistance. <br/>
- <B><s></s>I cut mainly olive oil, almonds and avocados. I went down meat and up dairy <e></e></B>(fresh raw organic goat local cheese)<br/>
- I started daily coffee, 1st time in my life.<br/>
- I even ate sugar... Not much, or in coffee, and then used marmelade. I juiced oranges and would cook the rest with sugar for example. <br/>
- I got a 1st cold feb 2016 (I was out of this when I went dairy free), and went out of sugar, favoring fruits and dry fruits. Then I let down dates that upset my stomach, and most over too sweet stuff, only fresh fruits. <br/>
- I started doing some Buteyko breathing, seemed good, but then I had teeth/sinus problems, at CP 30, as said by Buteyko. The problem was having to take some antibiotics, and then the ORL problems went back, summer 2016.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
So... Last year, <B><s></s>big CRASH<e></e></B>.<br/>
Bronchitis, then aggravated by fungi allergy. Digestion blocked, ate honey and eggs 1 month. I could hardly stand on my feet. My inter-ribs muscles and diaphragm were affected by the permanent cough. I started to recover but would crash after 2 days, then 3 then 4.... And I am still not back to health.<br/>
<br/>
<COLOR color="#FF0080"><s></s>Spring 2017: Genetic test and organic acids.<e></e></COLOR><br/>
<br/>
- <B><s></s>Phenylacetate & Indican<e></e></B> high Indicate <B><s></s>intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth<e></e></B>, but there is no candida. <br/>
- problem with ATP production and glucose oxydation: <B><s></s>high L-Lactate and Succinate<e></e></B> ↑<br/>
- High Homovanillate and 5-Hydroxyindoleacetate ↑ meaning a <B><s></s>problem with Dopamine & Serotonin turnover<e></e></B>. <br/>
- High Glucarate and Hippurate ↑ meaning problem with <B><s></s>Hepatic Phase I and II detox and Hepatic Phase II conjugation<br/>
<e></e></B><br/>
<B><s></s>Matches exactly what I feel: <e></e></B><br/>
- digestive problems, <br/>
- lactic acid pain, <br/>
- liver overwhelmed, <br/>
- metabolism is rather slow and cells do not want to give more energy and do not fully burn glucose. <br/>
<br/>
<B><s></s>Then I did some blood tests too in June 2017<e></e></B>: <URL url="http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=79#p950"><LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?f=33&t=79#p950">http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=79#p950</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
<br/>
- eosinophils are a bit high. (Is it still form the Fungi allergy?) <br/>
- Cholesterol a bit high, <br/>
- vitamin D a bit low (has been low before).<br/>
- Thyroid a bit low, but not totally out of range, and THS is normal. It is lower than 8 years ago. <br/>
<br/>
Now:
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I can sleep 5-6 hours per night. Getting better</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Pee a lot but not thirsty. Use the night bucket less and less...</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I often wake up with puffed eyes, as if full of liquid like a blister.</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I have pains and aches as usual</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I can sometimes have some <B><s></s>strange nerves sensations<e></e></B> in legs or in arms, clearly running all the way from the spine (from sacrum and shoulders zones, both sides). Sometimes I walk as if I was going to sit down or have cramps. My arms articulations can also tend to shut. I can easily mimic some incapacitated persons. In both hands and feet I can feel that the current arrives at the last 2 fingers.</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Lymphatic system feels burning or painful sometimes</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Pain in the salivary glands (for a long time, it just seem more present)</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I have always had red big tonsils and some chronic sinusitis. I use xylitol that I find nice for my teeth, and I think my nose is less dry and stuffed.</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Last year was dramatic for my teeth. It is the second time in my life that it is that bad, and it seems linked to fructose. This time it was with fruits, and the worse was when I used powdered fructose (the one they say is good for diabetics!)</LI><e>

</e></LIST>

<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I need sun!!! I know why I moved here from the continent...</LI><e>

</e></LIST>

<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>My temps seem to be ok, like 36º4to6 in the morning and an easy 37ºC or even 37º3 to 5 during the day. I had not tested for long, so I do not know since when</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Slow breather, superficial but diaphragmatic. I changed this with cranio-sacral recently, let's see</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Normal weight. I need to HAVE to be active, so chose an outdoor life, or else I have no motivation. Except that I have the first belly fat in my life!</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>Slow pulse, less than 60. Low blood pressure.</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<B><s></s><br/>
What I understand less in the lab results are this of the dopamine and serotonine... Is it that I lack both? <e></e></B>That would be what I feel. <br/>
<br/>
<COLOR color="#00BF40"><s></s>What obviously had a good effects last year to get back: <e></e></COLOR><br/>
- digestive enzymes, <br/>
- betaine Hcl, now seems to irritate my stomach, <br/>
- methylcobalamine, <br/>
- zinc, <br/>
- biotine, <br/>
- Mg with P5P.<br/>
<br/>
I am too much with my own nose in it, but I think I have a quite obvious pattern, don't you think?</r>

 

[Canari]

Re: I want more up and down facility in my energy levels

<r>At the end of the last century... I was eating a lot of meat with veggies, both. I was having a lot of fun with friends doing inipi style saunas, I would sweat in the garden and even more under my plastic tunnel, growing nice veggies... I was not having coffee and stayed out of sugar. Some reasonable fruits and nuts, very little starch. I was keeping my problems low and was active. <br/>
<br/>
<B><s></s>Now:<e></e></B><br/>

<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I am going to buy more <B><s></s>red lamps<e></e></B>, and hope I can finally get a <B><s></s>sauna<e></e></B>... <br/>
  When I have something to do, I choose mid day, so that I can <B><s></s>sweat<e></e></B>!</LI> <e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I am going to eat <B><s></s>more red meat again<e></e></B></LI><e>

</e></LIST>.
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I go on with <B><s></s>enzyme<e></e></B>, might try wobenzyme instead of solgar's.</LI><e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I go on with juice and olive oil in the morning, and bitter herbs salads.</LI> <e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I am going to look for <B><s></s>herbs<e></e></B> that help produce more bile.</LI> <e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>I am going to do again some <B><s></s>liver flushes<e></e></B>. They were easy and did not get much globs - 6 years ago - but who knows now, and my goal is to flush bile.</LI> <e>

</e></LIST>
<LIST><s>

• </s><LI>And <B><s></s>fast<e></e></B>.</LI><e>

</e></LIST></r>

 

[Canari]

Re: I want more up and down facility in my energy levels

<r>I have started some interpretation...<br/>
<br/>
I think there is something behind the fact some of us do not resist well to the multitude of tiny beings who want to thrive on us. Nevertheless, until I find a way to save energy for myself and fight them off, I might have some chronic low grade infections, like tonsil, sinus, guts, plus some allergies to fungi, plus some rests of virus and lyme, if they can reactivate. <br/>
<br/>
Then, obviously, the nervous system has some hard times... Liver too, kidneys have a lot of work, pancreas might not make enough enzymes. Some mercury around and whatever we call toxins. <br/>
<br/>
The root is under the ground, before birth. I do not know more from my parents than the vapors my mom inhalated every day in the lab were <B><s></s>ethanol<e></e></B>, isopropanol and others of the same kind. And think that my family is alcohol problem free! Anyway, I went looking this way... <br/>
<br/>
Ethanol -> acetaldhehyde
<QUOTE><s>

</s>In the liver, the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase oxidizes ethanol into acetaldehyde, which is then further converted into the harmless acetic acid (vinegar) by <U><s></s>acetaldehyde dehydrogenase<e></e></U>.<e>

</e></QUOTE> <br/>
(I really do not like vinegar and acidic taste in general - my salivary glands are contracting right now just by writing this!)<br/>
<br/>
<URL url="http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=92"><LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?f=24&t=92">http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=92</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
Just by googling with what comes from my labs! - MAO inhibition - lack of dopamine and serotonine turnover?<br/>
What are the signs of MAO inhibition? <br/>
<br/>
Then, alcohol also has an influence on the degradation of histamine. I had <B><s></s>dermographism<e></e></B> as a child, none now. There is also a link with methylation, thus me doing good with methylcobalamine... <br/>
About <B><s></s>histamine<e></e></B><QUOTE><s>

</s> "When released at synapses, it is broken down by <U><s></s>acetaldehyde dehydrogenase<e></e></U>. When this enzyme is deficient, there is an increased risk of allergic reactions, as histamine accumulates in the synapses. "<e>

</e></QUOTE>
from <URL url="https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Histamine.aspx"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.news-medical.net/health/Wha ... amine.aspx">https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Histamine.aspx</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
<br/>
Last year I had no reaction from being stung by a wasp. I have never had hay fever, but some reaction to cats as a child, but then never had any reaction to animals. I sneeze with molds and dust (acarians).<br/>
<br/>
Copper destroys histamine. <QUOTE><s>

</s>Low histamine levels are associated with convulsions and seizures.<e>

</e></QUOTE>
I have had convulsions twice, once this year. <br/>
<br/>
<URL url="http://www.tvernonlac.com/copper-toxicity.html">http://www.tvernonlac.com/copper-toxicity.html</URL><br/>
I am tired but active with my brain? Matches what I read in this good link. "Copper gives a temporary boost to an exhausted system so cravings for high copper foods" <br/>
Also, "It is stimulating and irritating to the nerves and can lead to neuralgia, such as sciatica or trigeminal neuralgia, and other neurological conditions such as epilepsy and tremors." <br/>
<br/>
How do you get rid of copper?<br/>
Ok, stop liver, coffee, chocolate, avocados... "The only common food that has high zinc without high copper is meat and to a lesser degree, eggs." <br/>
Take zinc. "Poor appetite, especially in the morning with some light morning nausea, is typical when zinc is low. " Take zinc!<br/>
" The milder effects are initially positive because it is activating and stimulating to the mind and can increase creativity and productivity. Many copper toxic people are very creative. The problems begin as the toxicity continues to build up..." <br/>
<br/>
"generous amounts of zinc, manganese, niacin (B3) and Vitamin C, all of which lowers copper. It is also imperative to avoid all multivitamins that contain copper."</r>

 

[Canari]

And lactic acid dehydrogenase is a zinc-dependent enzyme, no surprise I have such pains and aches!

Copper goes out with bile, so it needs to work well, or else... symptoms of copper intoxication.
http://www.adrenaladvice.com/copper-detox-symptoms.shtml

Again pointing at the importance of the liver flush, and do not bother about stones or fatty globs, what is necessary is to PRODUCE bile, and eliminate it, so that it eliminates all the garbage. It is just the normal cleaning process of the body. And we need the correct fiber to not reabsorb what goes out with the bile.

http://howirecovered.com/still-copper-toxic-two-years-later/

Mercury makes the body slower at dumping copper, so my mercury removing....

How do people lower copper and treat copper toxicity? This method might be too strong, very high in zinc...

This is how I lowered copper the first time, in between my first and second hair tests:

50 mg zinc three times a day with meals, 150 mg per day zinc total
1 mg molybdenum three times a day with meals, 3 mg molybdenum total
stopped consuming outrageous quantities of high copper foods


Some additional things I’m considering now include:

vitamin C 1 g five times a day (prevents lipid peroxidation caused by copper overload)
melatonin – because it protects against copper-mediated free radical damage
liposomal glutathione – seems to be involved in metabolism of copper and its excretion

Studies of excretion of Cu from sweat and urine and found that sweat is the most efficient way of eliminating Cu from the body – apparently 100x more Cu eliminated from sweat than from urine.


“the half-life of copper in the body is about a month. As copper excretion bile is reduced, the half-life lengthens. Interventions to modify copper body burden take more or less a month . . . to show their beneficial effects.”
“Zinc inhibits copper absorption as does vitamin C.”
“Supplements that increase bile flow will increase copper excretion.”
“Copper toxic people who don’t have mercury have “normal looking” hair analyses with high copper. People with high copper and high mercury probably aren’t making enough bile and need to pay attention to getting their liver to do this.”

to bring down copper:

B6- 100 mgs. 2x day
B5- 500 mgs. 2x day
Vitamin C- I take 1000 mgs. 5x day
Vitamin E- 400 iu 2x day
Vitamin A- 20,000 iu per day”

+ liver and colon cleansing and maybe most importantly oxygen therapy.

 

[Orion]

Thanks for posting this info Canari. I will be starting liver flushes in Dec, after a longer fast. Think doing warm/hot sea salt baths would help with sweating and mineral exchange?

 

[Orion]

Also from gbolduev, Resveratrol might be something to experiment a cycle with:

"estrogenic stuff like resveratrol, phytoestrogens. they lower your copper. So this lowers your base estrogen level.

You can read about it. arotamatase is copper dependant . Resveratrol is estrogen, it chelates copper"

 

[Canari]

Thanks! As a copper emotional personal lol [mention]HerrFisch[/mention] I love answers!
I hope my findings can help others. Really, I just googled key words of my symptoms and known causes, and came out many Eck-related websites!!!!!!

Thanks for posting this info Canari. I will be starting liver flushes in Dec, after a longer fast. Think doing warm/hot sea salt baths would help with sweating and mineral exchange?
Also from gbolduev, Resveratrol might be something to experiment a cycle with:"estrogenic stuff like resveratrol, phytoestrogens. they lower your copper. So this lowers your base estrogen level.
You can read about it. arotamatase is copper dependent . Resveratrol is estrogen, it chelates copper"

For many reasons, using sea bath or sea salt is barely feasible for me... Sea is either dangerous or beaches polluted. Then I have no bath tub. I can use anything else, but then I have to throw the water in my gardens, and plants do not like salt! (planning a salt-liking garden though....)

I was thinking of liver flush BEFORE fasting!

Yes right.... I have to enquire more about phyto-estrogens, but this strange, estrogen is not often liked.... but can it be that I got worse from taking progest-e?

 

[Canari]

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-diseases/copper-zinc-imbalance-unrecognized-consequence-of-plant-based-diets-and-a-contributor-to-chronic-fatigue/

Ironically, copper excess can lead to a craving for copper in some individuals. “Although it’s a bit difficult to understand,” Gittleman writes, “many people who have high copper in their tissues have difficulty utilizing that stored copper. As a result, they become somewhat deficient in copper in their blood. Because of that deficiency, they often crave high-copper foods to give them a temporary energy high.” My copper fixes of choice were nuts, cereals and avocado.

Thus we can find ourselves simultaneously in excess and deficiency of copper. This paradox can complicate any program of copper-zinc balancing. When in 2002 Theresa began incorporating hair mineral analysis into her practice, she recognized my problem with high-copper foods and urged me to begin to detoxify. I had avoided zinc supplements along with so much else when everything gave me a problem. When I reduced high-copper foods, my liver pain reappeared; when I tested zinc supplements, my liver pain also reappeared. I began to realize this copper thing could have been a part of my problem for some time. But I didn’t have a handle on it yet, and my efforts were erratic. When I read Gittleman’s book, all my years of struggle finally fell into place. The key point: copper is normally eliminated in the bile.

 

[Canari]

If copper release is higher than can comfortably pass through the liver and gall bladder, copper levels in the blood can rise, with an increase in digestive discomfort, anxiety, headaches and other symptoms.

To minimize these episodes of copper discharge, Gittleman recommends emphasizing nutrients which have an antagonizing action to copper, that is, they reduce its absorption or aid in binding it for excretion from the body.106 The most important of these, of course, is zinc itself, as obtained from the land-based proteins mentioned above. Manganese and iron act to displace copper from the liver; vitamin B6 and niacin promote reversal of copper overload; molybdenum and sulfur, which act in the intestines, facilitate its excretion; and vitamin C, very importantly, chelates copper in the blood to facilitate its removal. By emphasizing food sources of these nutrients, inorganic copper can be mobilized and circulated out of the system with minimum disruption.

 

[Canari]

I have a phase 2 problem.... Impressive text here: https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/mental-emotional-health/metals-and-the-mind/

Phase II liver impairment is often made worse by copper toxicity, if not actually caused by it.

Excess copper interferes with energy production at the cellular level. It impairs various energy pathways in the cell so it contributes to the very fatigue that tends to make you retain copper, leading to a vicious circle. Once this pattern gets going, it is totally self-reinforcing and very difficult to break, even by adding zinc-rich foods back into the diet.

Copper is stimulating to the brain, causing it to produce high levels of the activating neurotransmitters, like serotonin, norepinephrine, epinephrine and dopamine. This is why you will see copper toxicity in manic states like paranoid schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder. The so-called copper head tends to be very emotional, very intense, often very creative. Such individuals are prone to crash and burn because their overactive mind is being supported by a very fatigued body.

Copper toxicity is a major factor in irritable bowel syndrome because copper is excreted through the bile and certain things will cause you to suddenly dump copper. If you have been building up copper, anything that causes an increase in your metabolic rate will cause a copper dump and it comes out through the bile. If you are copper toxic and suddenly under a lot of stress, this may bring on an irritable bowel episode because suddenly excess copper is moving through your bowels and irritating them.

When this happens, the body starts to sequester it. It tries to stash it somewhere so it will do less damage. Thus, while you may be building up a lot of copper in your body, you may also have the symptoms of copper deficiency because the copper is bio-unavailable. The copper is not in a usable form so you will have both deficiency symptoms and symptoms of toxicity.

The increase in copper is stimulating, it gets you going, which is just what you need in the short term. But chronic unremitting stress never gives you time to recover, you never get to address your biochemical imbalance, you never have that down time to excrete the excess copper now.

We also use up tryptophan in these situations, as tryptophan is needed for serotonin production. Serotonin is used up under stress. You can’t replace your tryptophan by eating turkey when it is being used up so quickly. What this tells me is that the body is not designed to be constantly under stress. We are meant to spend time sitting in a hammock somewhere, or weaving a basket!

Initially you will tend to overreact, everything is an emergency. “Oh no! I have to go buy food. . . Oh no! I have to go to the bank today.” Everything is a big deal. With a lot of my patients I have to say, “Pretend you are on vacation.” Instead say, “If I feel like it, I’ll go get some food,” because inside there is a constant sense of urgency. Automatically if anything has to be done, it’s a big deal. It keeps you in that revved-up state, always overreacting to every little life event.

A sign of low B6 is lack of dream memory, or very disturbing dreams. And if your B6 is very low, you will find it hard to take zinc. Zinc will make you feel nauseated, bloated or uncomfortable.

This everything is big, that's me...

 

[Canari]

I had a much better day today! I was able to walk and feel some strength in my legs. The irregularity of my energy is calling my attention! Also the fact that I often feel better if I go to bed at 2am! Does it happen to sb else? Even if I get up early I am fine, though much better today as I was able to sleep until 9. I tend to pee less at night if I do not go to bed early. Yesterday I went to bed quite hungry, and I resisted the banana temptation!

In my RP days, I would have stuffed myself with banana or honey + cheese. With salt of course!

I take energin for Bs, methylcobalamine, folate, biotin, zinc, P5P. A little ionic Mg.
Digestive enzymes. Vitamine c, and betaine Hcl sometimes, with meat meals.

Food was in 4 meals:
- fresh orange juice with olive oil
- local berries and bananas
- beef heart with cooked veggies, and some raw greens with olive oil and cider vinegar, bananas, a little chocolate. A very light coffee with an egg.
- cooked greens and onions in butter with tuna, 3 brazilian nuts, a spoon of hemp seeds. Bananas, cooked apples.

Herbs etc were: milk thistle. coconut oil with turmeric, cloves, cinnamon. Mint oil.

 

[HerrFisch]

Nice finds ! [mention]Canari[/mention]

Copper toxicity is a major factor in irritable bowel syndrome because copper is excreted through the bile and certain things will cause you to suddenly dump copper. If you have been building up copper, anything that causes an increase in your metabolic rate will cause a copper dump and it comes out through the bile. If you are copper toxic and suddenly under a lot of stress, this may bring on an irritable bowel episode because suddenly excess copper is moving through your bowels and irritating them.

!!!

I noticed that increasing metabolism fast (caffeine high dose or stress) can lead to that. But increasing it slowly like caffeine low dose with food or sports are good. Maybe its because it gets dumped slowly over time. So if there happens to be a fast metab. increase after it was already increased slowly, its not that intense.!? (Because some Cu. is already dumped, so less available to dump right now ?)

Maybe thats why artichoke slightly helped ? (Im starting to get a big picture )

Copper toxicity makes it very hard for the mind to settle down, making it very difficult to relax, meditate or 'calm down'.

from http://www.holistic-back-relief.com/copper-toxicity.html
Thats me. Lying in bed fidging around with hands and feets.

I think from my medical background I slowly developed a zinc deficiency (lots of meds speed up zinc loss, inflammation needs zinc etc) and with immunosupressive things I slowed down my metabolism (what is good for Ulcerative colitis) but it led to excess copper.

 

[Canari]

Try to remember to breathe deeply and slowly and not react to every little stressor that you may encounter. Peace of mind is essential for Copper toxicity recovery.

Grrr typically the impossible! Basically humans have problems with their ANS because they try to control their body with their mind. There is something better to do:
- notice you react and let it happen
- notice when your body goes down after the reaction, and stay in contact with this sensation with the felt sense, until it is totally finished. Usually you will sigh or even yawn.
Up and down is a wave, and as you know the up is sharp and fast, and the down is slow and takes more time. When we do not take the time, we end up running into trouble...

 

[Canari]

Thanks for the link, and this can be me

"Estrogen has a similar structure to T3 and can block thyroid receptors on cell membranes throughout the body, causing a physiological Hypothyroidism, even though T3 production may be normal."

...because my Ts are not so low. I guessed it and got the answer in tpauk forum. I have never seen this considered in RPF, and explains failures when taking Thyroid.

I got the idea because all my problems seem to be about cell resistance! Can it be a coping mechanism -cause of my story- that my body was so used to, and is afraid to change? (edit: like insuline resistance, cells do not let come in "anybody who knocks at the door" and are too restrictive!)

 

[HerrFisch]

Me too, TSH up to 4 but Ts are perfect. ^^

Sorry I dont know what you mean by cell resistance.

 

[Canari]

Me too, TSH up to 4 but Ts are perfect. Sorry I dont know what you mean by cell resistance.

"block thyroid receptors on cell membranes"
- I have hypoT signs and no obvious hypo blood counts.
- I have a bit of insuline resistance.
I also refer to the lack of sensibility of the receptors for hormones like adrenaline or cortisol. You see, what gbolduev tell us to reset by fasting!

And I have learned in some training that the cells have some proper reflexes without even the nervous system input. One thing they do is to open or close themselves, according to "who knocks at the door". I immediately felt that there was a problem if there was a toxic AND glucose: how do they take the good and leave the bad?

Maybe it results in a slow metabolism? If the parallel is good: when it smells bad, like car fumes in the city, you cannot stop breathing, but you will certainly avoid doing what you would do while admiring a nice mountain scenery and trekking: you just breathe LESS.

[mention]mattyb[/mention] I would appreciate if you can chime in too...

 

[mattyb]

What is your BMI? How are your iron levels? Hemoglobin? RBC?

Ever had any blood gases done?

 

[HerrFisch]

[mention]Canari[/mention] I saw your posting at RPF that you are scared of high copper in blood while trying to get rid of excess.

From my understanding by taking zinc you replace copper in the liver. That will go into the bloodstream in which its easy to chelate copper with vitamin C.
So by taking high dose vitamin C (above 500mg) and maybe trying to increase bile, I dont think there is going to be any discomfort with too high blood copper levels.


"One of the difficulties in reducing excess copper are symptoms that arise during the process of elimination. As the body begins to mobilize excess copper from tissue storage sites, it enters the bloodstream on its way to the liver and kidneys for elimination. While in the bloodstream, the copper can cause headaches, skin rashes, racing thoughts, strange odors, digestive upset, mood swings and energy fluctuations. In men, testicular pain is not uncommon. Women’s periods may be affected.
Certain methods of lowering copper cause these symptoms more than others. Zinc, vitamin C and manganese tend to cause more symptoms, perhaps because zinc and manganese replace copper in the liver. Sulfur compounds such as Russian black radish tend not to produce copper elimination effects.
If one knows what is occurring, it is possible to take measures to minimize these temporary elimination symptoms. Enemas, sweating, and drinking more water can help promote copper elimination. Reducing the nutrition program for a few days may also help slow the reactions and reduce symptoms if they are severe. Supplements of molybdenum, bile acids, laxative herbs and vitamin B6 may also mitigate elimination symptoms."