Im unable to sleep

[SwaZ]

Its so strange, when Im drifting off sleep, I feel a jolt too, in my chest, I can feel all the nerves involved with this crap, its like a connection between the brain and the body are missing.

I dont feel sleepy at all... its madness

Breathing problems not really, but this YES.

Its like the fight or flight response just gets triggered randomly, its that feeling like getting scared when somethin pops up in front of you.
A strange "jolt" as you describe it, and then after that i cant sleep.

Maybe you shouldnt try magnesium and pottasium yet since they might slow down your breathing even more?
One time i took about 7-8 grams of magnesium chloride before bed, my breathing and hearth rate went SLOW, i got scared and tried to get out of bed but my muscles felt like they were in slow motion, it took like a second or two for them to register my will to move and even then they were moving slow.


Hmm, i think i read somewhere that yawning is trigered by dopamine, might be a problem there?

 

[Shadow]

I was reading here and trying to map the parts of my body and of the others with the same problem that starts to go crazy and ache when I trying to sleep.
Looks like Vagus Nerve is the culprit!

The jolt that I feel when trying to sleep is on the vagus nerve
Vagus Nerve Stimulation and Symptoms of Vagus Nerve Disorders

 

[SwaZ]

Maybe try breath counting, 4 when inhaling, stop for two secounds and slowly exhale while humming?

Also take something short term like the guys here have recomended.

 

[IHateFin]

could be too low cortisol so when youre about to sleep adrenaline kicks in ro raise it abit which would explain the breathing and the gut feeling right before drifting to sleep. this used to happen to me back in the day with pfs but i would wake up an hour later with a racing heart and anxiety so different but similar i guess aha

 

[Shadow]

could be too low cortisol so when youre about to sleep adrenaline kicks in ro raise it abit which would explain the breathing and the gut feeling right before drifting to sleep. this used to happen to me back in the day with pfs but i would wake up an hour later with a racing heart and anxiety so different but similar i guess aha

What you described happened to me before, this is something far worse

 

[Area-1255]

What you described happened to me before, this is something far worse

Check your Blood Sugar levels. As said in my first post. Get a blood work done on Cortisol, ACTH and Thyroid hormones.
You say its something "worse" doesn't mean its a SINGLE problem but many AMPLIFYING the Original Problem.
Let's not think too linearly - we KNOW its Autonomic Dysfunction; whether by Low Blood Sugar + Low Cortisol - which goes hand in hand but you may have multiple causes for the Former; including Low Cortsol which can cause Low Blood SUGAR..
And one or two causes for the Latter.
~AREA-1255

 

[Cdsnuts]

Breathing problems not really, but this YES.

Its like the fight or flight response just gets triggered randomly, its that feeling like getting scared when somethin pops up in front of you.
A strange "jolt" as you describe it, and then after that i cant sleep.

Maybe you shouldnt try magnesium and pottasium yet since they might slow down your breathing even more?
One time i took about 7-8 grams of magnesium chloride before bed, my breathing and hearth rate went SLOW, i got scared and tried to get out of bed but my muscles felt like they were in slow motion, it took like a second or two for them to register my will to move and even then they were moving slow.


Hmm, i think i read somewhere that yawning is trigered by dopamine, might be a problem there?

I'm surprised you didn't shit the bed with that dose!

 

[Cdsnuts]

Sure thing. Read up on these a bit before going the benzo route, because it sounds like your insomnia is really similar to what mine was. Another thing that helped me to a degree was ziziphus, from @Cdsnuts protocol. The albizia didn't do much for me sleep-wise, though. I stacked ziziphus, oleamide, phosphatidylserine, magnesium, and l-theanine on some of my worst nights and it usually had me asleep within 30ish minutes.

I'm the opposite. The Albizia really does it for me. The Ziziphus is more mild for my constitution.

 

[Area-1255]

I'm the opposite. The Albizia really does it for me. The Ziziphus is more mild for my constitution.

Ziziphus Jujuba is a 5-HT1B-antagonist, so it would probably increase Serotonin and may help OCD. That is, in part because 5-HT1B-receptors are tied to Glutamate-GABA. So you would raise both which may improve OCD-symptoms. OCD is marked by deficiencies in both Glutamate and GABA...although Glutamate is raised in some Brain Regions (PFC) it is typically too low in Hippocampus and Caudate.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2009 Jul 30;124(3):421-5. doi: 10.1016/j.jep.2009.05.040. Epub 2009 Jun 6.

Interactions of Magnolia and Ziziphus extracts with selected central nervous system receptors.
Koetter U1, Barrett M, Lacher S, Abdelrahman A, Dolnick D.

Author information
Abstract
ETHNOPHARMACOLOGICAL RELEVANCE:
Magnolia officinalis Rehder and Wilson [Magnoliaceae] bark and Ziziphus spinosa (Buhge) Hu ex. Chen. [Fam. Rhamnaceae] seed have a history of use in traditional Asian medicine for mild anxiety, nervousness and sleep-related problems.

AIM OF THE STUDY:
To identify pharmacological targets, extracts of Magnolia officinalis (ME), Ziziphus spinosa (ZE), and a proprietary fixed combination (MZE) were tested for affinity with central nervous system receptors associated with relaxation and sleep.

METHODS:
In vitro radioligand binding and cellular functional assays were conducted on: adenosine A(1), dopamine (transporter, D(1), D(2S), D(3), D(4.4) and D(5)), serotonin (transporter, 5-HT(1A), 5-HT(1B), 5-HT(4e), 5-HT(6) and 5-HT(7)) and the GABA benzodiazepine receptor.

RESULTS:
Interactions were demonstrated with the adenosine A(1) receptor, dopamine transporter and dopamine D(5) receptor (antagonist activity), serotonin receptors (5-HT(1B) and 5-HT(6) antagonist activity) and the GABA benzodiazepine receptor at a concentration of 100 microg/ml or lower. ME had an affinity with adenosine A(1) (K(i) of 9.2+/-1.1 microg/ml) and potentiated the GABA activated chloride current at the benzodiazepine subunits of the GABA receptor (maximum effect at 50 microg/ml). ME had a modest antagonist action with 5-HT(6) and ZE with the 5-HT(1B) receptor.

CONCLUSION:
The interactions in the receptor binding models are consistent with the traditional anxiolytic and sleep-inducing activities of Magnolia officinalis bark and Ziziphus spinosa seed.

PMID: 19505549 DOI: 10.1016/j.jep.2009.05.040

 

[SwaZ]

I'm surprised you didn't shit the bed with that dose!

Well i slept through the night, but the morning was rough lol

 

[Shadow]

I think that I found my problem
Fatal insomnia - Wikipedia

 

[Cdsnuts]

I think that I found my problem
Fatal insomnia - Wikipedia

You're joking, right?

 

[Niles]

You're joking, right?

I hope he's joking... But if not, I totally understand how no sleep and 24/7 anxiety could lead to this level of catastrophization.

@Shadow I know new symptoms can be terrifying, especially when they're as debilitating as complete insomnia with accompanying physical pain. But I've been there too, and I can tell you that being in an all-day panic about it and scouring the internet for answers will only make things much worse. I know from personal experience. This is what has helped me hop off that hamster wheel of anxiety, which I've found myself stuck on many times in the past year:

Calming physical activity (e.g. yoga, walking, tai chi, etc.)
Getting out in nature and being mindful and appreciative of your environment
Interacting with friends/family NOT on the topic of illness
A warm bath (not too hot, because I'd bet your low on electrolytes and sweating won't help)
Breathing exercises
Meditation

When you're really worked up, the more physical calming methods will probably be of most help, like a long walk or yoga session. When my health anxiety is really high, there's no way I can meditate or enjoy a bath. That's why I would combine many of these, starting with the active options and following with breath work and then meditation.

I also know the feeling of being up against the clock, like if you don't find an answer to your problems TODAY your body will deteriorate to a point where recovery is out of reach. This feeling of urgency also only exacerbates your issues. The body is resilient, it can bounce back from a lot. Think of it this way - will giving your mind a break from health anxiety for one day really hurt? If you choose not to spend all day on the internet today searching for answers to your problems, choosing instead to treat your mind and body to some much-needed care and relaxation, will you really be worse-off tomorrow? Just give yourself a break for a day to see what happens, because there's nothing to lose.

If you combine these practices with some of the supplementation recommended earlier in the thread, making sure to get plenty of electrolytes, then I'm confident that you'll see some positive results.

P.S.
If someone wrote this to me, my first thought would be that they're being condescending and not taking me seriously - that they don't understand how real my symptoms are. I fully believe that you're symptoms are real and severe, because I've been in a similar spot based on your description. Your symptoms don't have to be "all in your head" in order for mind-calming techniques to have a significant impact on your symptoms.

 

[Shadow]

You're joking, right?

Im not Joking, the Sporadic one matches exactly what Im going through....

 

[Shadow]

I hope he's joking... But if not, I totally understand how no sleep and 24/7 anxiety could lead to this level of catastrophization.

@Shadow I know new symptoms can be terrifying, especially when they're as debilitating as complete insomnia with accompanying physical pain. But I've been there too, and I can tell you that being in an all-day panic about it and scouring the internet for answers will only make things much worse. I know from personal experience. This is what has helped me hop off that hamster wheel of anxiety, which I've found myself stuck on many times in the past year:

Calming physical activity (e.g. yoga, walking, tai chi, etc.)
Getting out in nature and being mindful and appreciative of your environment
Interacting with friends/family NOT on the topic of illness
A warm bath (not too hot, because I'd bet your low on electrolytes and sweating won't help)
Breathing exercises
Meditation

When you're really worked up, the more physical calming methods will probably be of most help, like a long walk or yoga session. When my health anxiety is really high, there's no way I can meditate or enjoy a bath. That's why I would combine many of these, starting with the active options and following with breath work and then meditation.

I also know the feeling of being up against the clock, like if you don't find an answer to your problems TODAY your body will deteriorate to a point where recovery is out of reach. This feeling of urgency also only exacerbates your issues. The body is resilient, it can bounce back from a lot. Think of it this way - will giving your mind a break from health anxiety for one day really hurt? If you choose not to spend all day on the internet today searching for answers to your problems, choosing instead to treat your mind and body to some much-needed care and relaxation, will you really be worse-off tomorrow? Just give yourself a break for a day to see what happens, because there's nothing to lose.

If you combine these practices with some of the supplementation recommended earlier in the thread, making sure to get plenty of electrolytes, then I'm confident that you'll see some positive results.

P.S.
If someone wrote this to me, my first thought would be that they're being condescending and not taking me seriously - that they don't understand how real my symptoms are. I fully believe that you're symptoms are real and severe, because I've been in a similar spot based on your description. Your symptoms don't have to be "all in your head" in order for mind-calming techniques to have a significant impact on your symptoms.

Thank you for the words, but things are not that simple, I wish it was common insomnia, its something else, when I start to realax on the bed my body goes nuts, I start having all sorts of twitches, stiffness, sensorial sensations, visual hallucinations, and when Im drifting off, I get a shock and a tight on my nerves, the head are the most common, its like I need to compress than, and bam, no sleep... I tried all kinds of relaxation, I stayed in bed for hours(hours of torture) and not a single second of sleep.. Yesterday I was so bad from the sleep deprivation that I was taken to the hospital and they gave me levomepromazine, and I slept for 6h

It is unbeliveable, I never imagined something like this... if hell exists, it looks like this

 

[Cdsnuts]

Im not Joking, the Sporadic one matches exactly what Im going through....

Obviously, I'm not a doctor. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you do not have fatal insomnia. I feel for you dude, I really do. The fucking insomnia IS hell....no doubt. Especially after a couple days go by and you still haven't slept. There is a reason sleep deprivation is used as torture by governments around the world.....because it is!

I haven't checked your story, so I don't know what you're dealing with, but if you're here, I'm assuming it's because of PFS or something along those lines.

Insomnia was one of my worst symptoms when I was suffering. I hated it with a passion. Not only is it torturous while your going through it, but the downstream effects that spill over in the next days and weeks are just the definition of pure misery. I had alot of what you're talking about concerning your issues while trying to drift off at night.

My suggestion to you, is to find a way to go away to a clinic and water fast. Borrow it....put it on a credit card....do whatever you need to do to go do it. While there, you can just be up for as long as it takes for your system to come crashing down and shut off for a little while.

I came off of pain killers, sleeping pills and tranquilzers during my first fast. I legit didn't sleep for a week....easy. I was delirious, hallucinating and on another planet. But you WILL sleep again. You just have to give yourself the time and place to let it happen.

You NEED a reset man. This is the best way to do it. While you're there, you'll have proper medical supervision, you won't have any daily duties you need to accomplish and you can just let your body do what it needs to. Just the feeling alone of having no responsibilities for the next month can be greatly calming. Couple that with the fact that you're surrounded by doctors 24/7 and are a short distance to a hospital should you need it is worth it's weight in gold.

You can work on your breathing exercises and meditation which will help the situation along even further.

I'm telling you.....the best way to reset the body and mind is with a properly supervised and structured water fast at a proper clinic. It's just what you need to help your brain shut down.

If you really think you have fatal insomnia, then you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

 

[Shadow]

Obviously, I'm not a doctor. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you do not have fatal insomnia. I feel for you dude, I really do. The fucking insomnia IS hell....no doubt. Especially after a couple days go by and you still haven't slept. There is a reason sleep deprivation is used as torture by governments around the world.....because it is!

I haven't checked your story, so I don't know what you're dealing with, but if you're here, I'm assuming it's because of PFS or something along those lines.

Insomnia was one of my worst symptoms when I was suffering. I hated it with a passion. Not only is it torturous while your going through it, but the downstream effects that spill over in the next days and weeks are just the definition of pure misery. I had alot of what you're talking about concerning your issues while trying to drift off at night.

My suggestion to you, is to find a way to go away to a clinic and water fast. Borrow it....put it on a credit card....do whatever you need to do to go do it. While there, you can just be up for as long as it takes for your system to come crashing down and shut off for a little while.

I came off of pain killers, sleeping pills and tranquilzers during my first fast. I legit didn't sleep for a week....easy. I was delirious, hallucinating and on another planet. But you WILL sleep again. You just have to give yourself the time and place to let it happen.

You NEED a reset man. This is the best way to do it. While you're there, you'll have proper medical supervision, you won't have any daily duties you need to accomplish and you can just let your body do what it needs to. Just the feeling alone of having no responsibilities for the next month can be greatly calming. Couple that with the fact that you're surrounded by doctors 24/7 and are a short distance to a hospital should you need it is worth it's weight in gold.

You can work on your breathing exercises and meditation which will help the situation along even further.

I'm telling you.....the best way to reset the body and mind is with a properly supervised and structured water fast at a proper clinic. It's just what you need to help your brain shut down.

If you really think you have fatal insomnia, then you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

Thank you for your words Cdsnuts, you are very kind!

Im here because of PSSD and Protracted SSRI Withdrawal(it is 10x worse than pssd), I noticed that my body became even more numb, specially my genitals they are gone, its so frustrating, a couple days before this shit, I was seeing some improvements in pssd, mild ones, but they were there... and one day after this crap happened...

I live in this shit country, in a small town, it is hard to find supplements/herbs/minerals... Getting a hair tests is even more difficult, I found some of the supps that @Niles recommended me online, but I dont know the quality...

Well Im writing this in an auto pilot mode... Im suffering so much

 

[joekool]

I have no advice currently for insomnia so I feel for ya. I want to mention choline has been triggering some good stuff. There’s 3 kinds and the cheapest is bitartrate which seems to work for me. Brings back neuro connections and feelings. Please grab it

 

[noprop]

I have no advice currently for insomnia so I feel for ya. I want to mention choline has been triggering some good stuff. There’s 3 kinds and the cheapest is bitartrate which seems to work for me. Brings back neuro connections and feelings. Please grab it

Hi Shadow
I feel with you. I have the same problem.
I got IV gluthathione, aminos, b-vits and took phosphatidylserin for sleep. I slept then for about 4-5 hours.
Important: do something during the day. Go outside.
I had almost every fucking symptom except ataxia. I researched for months and posted some stuff. Parents thought I am playing in the ipad. Ignorants. Cant believe I have pfs. They think the foundation is full of psychopaths. My parents even cannot handle the web or speak English. Yeah, this is life. I lost everything.

I dont care about my life, am tired. But you can go on and if you need money you could share some with member mnk99. He can tell you more. You will get support - just ask. Noprop aka Raphael

 

[Shadow]

Hi Shadow
I feel with you. I have the same problem.
I got IV gluthathione, aminos, b-vits and took phosphatidylserin for sleep. I slept then for about 4-5 hours.
Important: do something during the day. Go outside.
I had almost every fucking symptom except ataxia. I researched for months and posted some stuff. Parents thought I am playing in the ipad. Ignorants. Cant believe I have pfs. They think the foundation is full of psychopaths. My parents even cannot handle the web or speak English. Yeah, this is life. I lost everything.

I dont care about my life, am tired. But you can go on and if you need money you could share some with member mnk99. He can tell you more. You will get support - just ask. Noprop aka Raphael

Im using calcium, magnesium and passiflora incarnata, I can fall asleep, but I wake up multiple times, adding all this "sleep" moments, I think I could say that Im sleeping 1-2 hours, feels like a train runned over me. I ordered some new things including phophatidylserin, I it helps more...

And yes, It is hard when people dont believe in us... Im currently deprived of all the things that I liked, I can feel when you said that you lost everthing.