FINASTERIDE SIGNIFICANTLY UPREGULATES ANDROGEN RECEPTOR in this study ( PROTOCOLS and discussions for PFS)

[Helen]

But since I know how progestins work based on progesterone level, then I think we have two cases here.


It says SIGNIFICANT upregulation. Which is understandable. And it says upregulated for months and years afterwords.
Finasteride upregulates expression of androgen receptor in hyperplastic prostate and LNCaP cells: implications for chemoprevention of prostate cancer. - PubMed - NCBI

So for case with upregulated receptors / this is why DHTs like proviron , or masterone dont do anything. Since they are not even close to DHT for anabolism

And only things like anavar can work which have crazy anabolic effect and will downregulate the receptor the most.


This is why things like anavar actualy downregulate the receptor and then when you get off you get supersexuality. since estrogen starts pouring in.


In cases of downregulated receptors, dutasteride will work. or any 5 AR antagonist. with no progestin like action, Just blocks 5 AR.

 

[Ingeno]

Only thing I am worried about is the suppression anavar causes, and some hair loss stories. Otherwise I would have tried anavar already. Saw Palmetto gave me hypersexuality, used finasteride afterwards which shut down my libido and muscle growth.

 

[Helen]

Androgen receptor is zinc finger combined with arginine.

So it is a balance of these cysteine metabolism arginine metabolism and hitsidine metabolism which gives you hair and sex drive at the same time

Since if you really downregulate your receptor. You will have insane sex drive but with INSANE hairloss. LIke you will lose all your hair within weeks.

this is why really steroids in this case are not ideal. Since you will go from one problem to another problem

Ideal is to try to fix arginine cysteine histdine metabolism ratios.

This way you will keep your hair and your sex drive at the same time.

 

[tallglass13]

Wow! ok, so do we take arginine, cysteine, histidine in small doses? or do we take things that Make those aminos? Hair and libido is the toughest to balance. any pointers would be welcome @Helen.

 

[tallglass13]

I've been getting libido boost from Brewer's yeast, so maybe the amino ratio of cysteine , arginine, and histidine is good.

 

[Helen]

Wow! ok, so do we take arginine, cysteine, histidine in small doses? or do we take things that Make those aminos? Hair and libido is the toughest to balance. any pointers would be welcome @Helen.

JCI - Substitution of arginine-839 by cysteine or histidine in the androgen receptor causes different receptor phenotypes in cultured cells and coordinate degrees of clinical androgen resistance.

You see if you are missing one thing out of the zinc finger it will get all screwed up

this is why if you are missing arginine metabolism. Your receptor will be not working. No matter what you do

And fin in some cases upregulates Arginase like crazy. And those people have not working receptor. And to fix the receptor , they need to inhbit arginase.

And this will stop hairloss and increase libido at the same time.


Hairloss, is the lack of these amino acids together. Since arginine makes NO and histidine and cysteine protect the cell from oxidation and allow this NO to be made.

This is why people use NO sources and combine it with SODS which is cysteine histidine and they grow hair like crazy and have the sex drive at the same time, since zinc finger is complete Hairloss-reversible.com: Super oxide dismutase and nitric oxide will grow hair



this is why these programs like ARL and TEI they try to balance your arginine cysteine histidine system. And this is how you balance your AR.

I dont think there is such a thing as alpha or being higher than everyone else. You are only better and higher and stronger than any one else, the most balanced you are. Since only in the optimal balance there is the most energy.

And you cant never get that by enhancers of testosteorne or androgens .

Try to balance your histamine nitric oxide and glutathione system. which is histidine cysteine and arginine metabolism and that is your balance.


this is why something like electrolytes protocol can provide everything you need and your body will be balanced

But for people who dont care about their hair. I am pretty sure options above will solve their PFS. but in some cases hair will be gone within weeks. and gone hard

 

[Helen]

this is why when some people quit fin , they experience biotin deficiency. Since FIN turns off antioxidation system this upregulates arginase like crazy. And after you quit fin. You simply have no arginine. since it just gets broken down very very fast this drains the hell out of biotin. And in a weeks times you have no biotin and metabolism shuts down

You have no biotin which stops tons of processes and also you have no arginine since you cant even make it without biotin. And this way your glucose 6 phosphatase gets shut down, and you have no access to glycogen.= CFS , high reverse t3. And zero pentose pathway in balls. but high pentose pathway in liver which causes crazy lipid accumulation fatty liver. etc

 

[Helen]

|Bottom line, zinc finger( zinc cysteine histidine) and arginine are needed for the androgen receptor. this is what androgen receptor IS.

And it is very logical, Since androgens are NO inducers. and they will only work. when your body thinks you have NO. So the zinc finger at AR receptor, does not work without arginine ))

So if you have NO but you are missing cysteine. NO will not be made, since there is no antioxidation. and instead you will make INOS.

And if you have cystein and histidine but you dont have arginine, AR will not work either )

 

[Admiral]

this is why these programs like ARL and TEI they try to balance your arginine cysteine histidine system. And this is how you balance your AR.

ARL and I think TEI as well barely include amino’s, though the glandulars might possess some.

 

[Orion]

this is why when some people quit fin , they experience biotin deficiency. Since FIN turns off antioxidation system this upregulates arginase like crazy. And after you quit fin. You simply have no arginine. since it just gets broken down very very fast this drains the hell out of biotin. And in a weeks times you have no biotin and metabolism shuts down

You have no biotin which stops tons of processes and also you have no arginine since you cant even make it without biotin. And this way your glucose 6 phosphatase gets shut down, and you have no access to glycogen.= CFS , high reverse t3. And zero pentose pathway in balls. but high pentose pathway in liver which causes crazy lipid accumulation fatty liver. etc

Biotin makes my skin very oily and acne prone. I assume it promotes sugar metabolism and shuts down or lowers fat metabolism. Taking large doses of biotin would use up lots of aminos? Once I am back from vacation, biotin testing will be next.

 

[Reverse]

|Bottom line, zinc finger( zinc cysteine histidine) and arginine are needed for the androgen receptor. this is what androgen receptor IS.

And it is very logical, Since androgens are NO inducers. and they will only work. when your body thinks you have NO. So the zinc finger at AR receptor, does not work without arginine ))

So if you have NO but you are missing cysteine. NO will not be made, since there is no antioxidation. and instead you will make INOS.

And if you have cystein and histidine but you dont have arginine, AR will not work either )

My case is that I have no NO...I know because my veins dissappeared

I don't respond to herbs
I don't respond to arginine supplement
I have no hair loss
I have trouble staying awake sometimes, especially if I'm not moving.

How should I proceed?
Electrolytes protocol or zinc finger?
What's the best educated guess of which protocol I should try first? I don't have money to spend on tests that why I ask for best option.

 

[Helen]

Biotin makes my skin very oily and acne prone. I assume it promotes sugar metabolism and shuts down or lowers fat metabolism. Taking large doses of biotin would use up lots of aminos? Once I am back from vacation, biotin testing will be next.

You are taking biotin already. you are not PFS.


You assume correctly

 

[Helen]

My case is that I have no NO...I know because my veins dissappeared

I don't respond to herbs
I don't respond to arginine supplement
I have no hair loss
I have trouble staying awake sometimes, especially if I'm not moving.

How should I proceed?
Electrolytes protocol or zinc finger?
What's the best educated guess of which protocol I should try first? I don't have money to spend on tests that why I ask for best option.

Wait for a little bit, till I recover and I wll post how I did it in my log


You can run electrolyte protocol. I think it will help you

 

[Jaxx]

Just so you know, you dont have to get PSSD, to help solve it

 

[Helen]

Just so you know, you dont have to get PSSD, to help solve it

Just so you know when I took fin, I crashed, and after that some stupid doctor put me on Paxil for 3 months. so I had PSSD. and PFS

 

[Orion]

You are taking biotin already. you are not PFS.

Yep but its the one B vitamin, that I haven't tried in bigger doses recently(tested years ago, and made things way worse). Curious how I will react to testing a larger intake now with tons of aminos and the electrolyte protocol.

 

[Jaxx]

Just so you know when I took fin, I crashed, and after that some stupid doctor put me on Paxil for 3 months. so I had PSSD. and PFS

Orly? Never read you took paxil at some point. I seriously dont get why GP's are allowed to push that stuff, it has one of the most side-effects of all anti-depressants.
One of the best quotes ive seen is a psych saying that SSRI's are a better predictor of sexual side-effects than of helping with a depression.

Once i got over the rough period i kinda linked it tho, felt calm and in control, until side-effects got worse and went to shit after quitting..

 

[Helen]

Orly? Never read you took paxil at some point. I seriously dont get why GP's are allowed to push that stuff, it has one of the most side-effects of all anti-depressants.
Once i got over the rough period i kinda linked it tho, felt calm and in control, until side-effects got worse..

Paxil is a POS fucking garbage which caused me to gain 35 kg in 3 months while I was on it. when I came to Cyprus I was 125kg which is a lot for me. My ideal weight is around 90 -95 for my height. I have never been 125 in my life and I was in sports all my life. never ever had extra fat on me.

I lost all of this weight since I immediately did a 35 day fast . And I think the fast took care of some PFS symptoms since I really swam like crazy during it.

 

[Jaxx]

Yeah i gained weight for the first time in my life too on paxil. Mirtazapine was far worse though, that shit wouldve made me a fatass if i didnt quite after 6 weeks. Never in my life craved food or drinks so much, crazy

 

[hairsuit]

So @Helen , you’re saying that ultimately ARL and TEI should be just what we need to balance out all sides of PFS (theoretically)? Regardless of which case we are, the balancing should address either? My last hold out at this point is libido.