New log, experimenting - Nina

[mattyb]

20mg of zinc per day is a ton. Definitely never supplement with zinc, even if you go on valacyclovir.

 

[Nina]

Don't do it if you don't take vitamin d. That is the most important part for the antiviral response. If you get it through sun, you need like 45 minutes of Sun bathing with minimal skin coverage.

When you took vitamin d in the past, were you low carb?

Supplemented on both low carb/normal carb

 

[mattyb]

Low calcium because if you increase vitamin D while on normal calcium it will raise calcium levels too much.

Also, EBV opens calcium channels in b-cells to take in more extracellular calcium to stimulate protein kinase c which it uses for replication. We want to deplete extracellular calcium, but we want vitamin d levels as high as possible because that upregulates MHC Class II receptors which allows the body to locate which cells are infected with EBV so they can be killed properly.

 

[Nina]

Low calcium because if you increase vitamin D while on normal calcium it will raise calcium levels too much.

Also, EBV opens calcium channels in b-cells to take in more extracellular calcium to stimulate protein kinase c which it uses for replication. We want to deplete extracellular calcium, but we want vitamin d levels as high as possible because that upregulates MHC Class II receptors which allows the body to locate which cells are infected with EBV so they can be killed properly.

Right my bloodtests show vit d deficiency everytime i get it done despite supplements and sun, so thats odd. Its weird though, because mono is ‘active’ i dont notice it much besides swollen lymph nodes and sometimes random fevers at night

 

[Aleksandr]

I swear people don't read my posts when Helen is in a thread LOL. Histidine and folic acid won't do anything to fight off EBV. Histidine + folic acid will raise hemoglobin, but that won't fight off EBV.

I outlined a protocol several times to fight off EBV in this thread. It involves cysteine (NAC), selenium, glycine, high-dose Vitamin D, B2, vitamin C. Then you could possibly add on valacyclovir + low-dose niacin + zinc if you really want to go further.

I read your posts Matty. The nutrtition and electrolytes approach has helped me more than random mineral or amino supplements

*brofist*

 

[mattyb]

Right my bloodtests show vit d deficiency everytime i get it done despite supplements and sun, so thats odd. Its weird though, because mono is ‘active’ i dont notice it much besides swollen lymph nodes and sometimes random fevers at night

That's because EBV depletes active vitamin D. Your body has to burn through crazy amounts of vitamin D to sustain the ability to fight the infection. Helen suggested Vitamin B2 to improve vitamin D recycling, and I think that's a great idea. You want vitamin D levels up to about 120 nmol/L. Many people supplement like 20,000iu per week to for close to a year to get levels up that high. EBV even has an anti-vitamin D binding mechanism, where it inhibits a vitamin d response element on DNA. It's a smart virus.

The EBV is active, that's what is causing your fatigue and inability to handle carbohydrates. Every time you eat carbs, your EBV activity shoots up because your body makes more b-cells where the EBV lives and and you get worse fatigue. Fevers and lymph nodes are just offshoots of that.

 

[Nina]

That's because EBV depletes active vitamin D. Your body has to burn through crazy amounts of vitamin D to sustain the ability to fight the infection. Helen suggested Vitamin B2 to improve vitamin D recycling, and I think that's a great idea. You want vitamin D levels up to about 120 nmol/L. Many people supplement like 20,000iu per week to for close to a year to get levels up that high. EBV even has an anti-vitamin D binding mechanism, where it inhibits a vitamin d response element on DNA. It's a smart virus.

The EBV is active, that's what is causing your fatigue and inability to handle carbohydrates. Every time you eat carbs, your EBV activity shoots up because your body makes more b-cells where the EBV lives and and you get worse fatigue. Fevers and lymph nodes are just offshoots of that.

Right but if i feel bad on it, what do i do? Supplement nothing besides the folic acid/histidine/maybe b2?

 

[mattyb]

Right but if i feel bad on it, what do i do? Supplement nothing besides the folic acid/histidine/maybe b2?

While it's still summer, just tan every day for ~45 minutes a day and do everything else.

Just curious about what vitamin D does to you? And what kind of condition you were in when you were taking it? Were you doing keto at the time?

 

[Helen]

I swear people don't read my posts when Helen is in a thread LOL. Histidine and folic acid won't do anything to fight off EBV. Histidine + folic acid will raise hemoglobin, but that won't fight off EBV.

I outlined a protocol several times to fight off EBV in this thread. It involves cysteine (NAC), selenium, glycine, high-dose Vitamin D, B2, vitamin C. Then you could possibly add on valacyclovir + low-dose niacin + zinc if you really want to go further.

@Nina try to follow this. this protocol increases glutathione levels. This allows glutathione to protect your red blood cells, and they dont get broken down. by oxidative stress.
Don t look how you react to separate things in this protocol. since it should not be taken separately . It should be taken together.



Virus in the body is detoxed with glutathione, it attaches to glutathione and glutathione neutralizes it. This is why when you have heavy viral load, this eats up a lot of your glutathione. glutathione is recylced with vitamin B2 and b1 and glutathione itself which is made from cysteine and glutamine and glycine. and other components.

You feel bad on vitamin D, since you have no oxidation and vitamin D kills thyroid. but if you take glutathione components and things that speed up thyroid like selenium and cysteine. with vitamin D. this will allow vitamin D to do its job.


Matty is saying right things. I dont quiet understand how vitamin D fight the virus. Since to me vitamin D just puts calcium in the cell, which pushes the virus out. But you will need calcium in the cell. and this will only be possible when your glutathione starts protecting your red blood cells. and your oxidation rate speeds up.

And Matty is saying right things here.

Look at how what he is saying looking more and more like electrolytes protocol. since it is.


Follow this Nina. You can add folic acid to it also. I hope @mattyb you dont mind she adds folic acid , since it will just speed up hemoglobin rebuild.


It is funny but I told her to follow the protocol that we outlined. Matty also look at electrolytes protocol , may be you can find things she can also add.

 

[Helen]

@mattyb

How does D vitamin kills or fight the virus. I don't understand? what is the mechanism. I mean to me , virus eat b2. this then lowers D3. and virus hides in the cell.

I mean if you think about calcium chloride russian treatment. It is ionized calcium which gets rid of the virus. As we read in the studies , remember.

Active vitamin D for MS works just by killing oxidation. It slows down the oxidation, so does not allow free oxygen in the cell. but how does this kills the virus.
Actually vitamin D reminds me of hydrogen water which also will work for MS, and probably even better then vitamin D.

Since it will also lowers the oxidation rate.

You are saying that if someone pounds on vitamin D. then this puts calcium in the cell, virus gets lose , and since oxidation ratio get so low, very little b2 and b1 are used for glutathione to protect from regulate sugar oxidation. and then in a while , metabolism just lifts up itself.

I dont think eating sugar is about b cells. I think eating sugar simpy puts more pressure on glutathione. You eat sugar you waste b1 and b2. and thus glutathione goes down, and viral load is bigger.

So it is interesting if someone can just dump their oxidation rate for a while, and this spares a lot of glutathione. and this detoxes the virus?

But it does sound kind of strange, since to me virus load is just a state. meaning the lower glutathione present the more viral load. the more glut present the less glutathione load

 

[mattyb]

@Helen

Vitamin D upregulates MHC Class II expression, so the body can properly identify the virus on the surfaces of the B-cells, and then kill the infected B-cells. During an active infection, EBV's primary method of evading the immune system is by downregulating MHC Class II expression by blocking a vitamin D response element on DNA. So that way the body can't detect the virus and kill those B-cells. It's a unique mechanism very specific to it's infection of B-cells.

The control of EBV is fought primarily through the adaptive immune system, not the innate immune system. Glutathione is part of the non-specific innate immune system, but the primary way that most people beat EBV is through the adaptive immune system. That's why mono takes about 1 month for most healthy people to get over, because you have to wait long enough for the body's adaptive immune system to do it's thing - and it takes time to build up and select B-cells for antibody production and produce specific CD8+ t-cells to kill those infected b-cells.

Most other viruses and bacteria can be largely fought off by the innate immune system. Things like influenza and rhinovirus mutate so fast the adaptive immune system doesn't play much of a role in fighting them off, so the innate immune system does the job - that's why those infections take at most a week to get over, because they don't rely that much on the adaptive immune system.

 

[mattyb]

Estrogen is a CD8+ t-cell inhibitor, so this is actually one of those times when anti-estrogenic strategies might help fight off the virus as well. Something like aspirin, which has anti-aromatase activity could possibly serve that purpose of blocking estrogen and upregulating CD8 t-cell response - but I am just theorizing right now. I wouldn't add that into the protocol yet.

 

[Helen]

@Helen

Vitamin D upregulates MHC Class II expression, so the body can properly identify the virus on the surfaces of the B-cells, and then kill the infected B-cells. During an active infection, EBV's primary method of evading the immune system is by downregulating MHC Class II expression by blocking a vitamin D response element on DNA. So that way the body can't detect the virus and kill those B-cells. It's a unique mechanism very specific to it's infection of B-cells.

The control of EBV is fought primarily through the adaptive immune system, not the innate immune system. Glutathione is part of the non-specific innate immune system, but the primary way that most people beat EBV is through the adaptive immune system. That's why mono takes about 1 month for most healthy people to get over, because you have to wait long enough for the body's adaptive immune system to do it's thing - and it takes time to build up and select B-cells for antibody production and produce specific CD8+ t-cells to kill those infected b-cells.

Most other viruses and bacteria can be largely fought off by the innate immune system. Things like influenza and rhinovirus mutate so fast the adaptive immune system doesn't play much of a role in fighting them off, so the innate immune system does the job - that's why those infections take at most a week to get over, because they don't rely that much on the adaptive immune system.

Mattyb, calcium chloride totally kills the virus of herpes, it is tested millions of time in russia. My father , my mom , my aunt , all had those shot done.

As we saw in that study that h202 in the cell with the presence of ionized calcium = virus death.

I think the explanations above are just not molecular biochemical explanations, they are too enzymatic still. I might be not correct. but this is what I saw from the studies.

It was obvious from that study that to kills the virus you need h202 plus ionized calcium in the cell. Without ionized calcium it simply did not work.

So vitamin D to me does none of those things but provides calcium cell overload. It does not have any magical properties IMO

H202 plus ionized calcium system = primary defense from the virus.

glutathione attachment and carry = secondary defense against virus.

But without glutathione = you cant make h202. thus these too things are connected.


I am not saying you are not right, but I am usually trying to get to the level of molecular biochemistry, not some made up terms, when they talk about upregulation of some MHC class 2 expression etc. IMO it is simply protein kinase which is calcium dependant simply upregulate this protein.
But that is also way above molecular biochemstry levels. That is still enzymatic reactions.

 

[Helen]

Estrogen is a CD8+ t-cell inhibitor, so this is actually one of those times when anti-estrogenic strategies might help fight off the virus as well. Something like aspirin, which has anti-aromatase activity could possibly serve that purpose of blocking estrogen and upregulating CD8 t-cell response - but I am just theorizing right now. I wouldn't add that into the protocol yet.

yes, this is what TEI and ARL do for slow oxidizers, they chelate copper . Copper lowers vitamin D3 levels and causes calcium to get out of the cell.
Since calcium goes out of the cell= this lead to lower protein kinase.= which lead to lower ionized calcium and also lower MHC expression. since protein kinase upregulates MHC. and vitamin D increases protein kinase by simply increasing calcium. which then upregulate MHC

I think this mechanim is created to control the bacterial infection IMHO. I might not be right.

I mean you talk about upregulating the MHC, but it is ionized calcium which upregulates it , not vitamin D. This is why they use calcium chloride which increases Ionized form of calcium. And actually regular calcium or high calcium diet will decrease ionized calcium. vitamin D increases calcium and phoshorus, thus if you give vitamin D with high phosphorus diet but low calcium diet, you will increase ionized calcium.
If you give vitamin D with high calcium diet, you will decrease ionized calcium.
this is why you talk about aspirin, If you give aspirin with calcium. You will increase ionized calcium, since it is similar to calcium chloride.

If you just give simple calcium , this will decrease ionized calcium.

IMO , this is how vitamin D works. vitamin D without calcium increases phosphorus, which increases ionized calcium, Ionized calcium increases MHC.

Phorphorus is needed to activate all vitamin Bs. This is why if there is a big pressure on glutathione enzymes, you run low on phosphorus and bs. And phosphorus is low on the hairtest since it is being used and calcium is high.

TEI just give phosphorus to slow oxidizers and B vitamins, with regular not high doses of vitamin D. This way you get active Bs, like B1 and B2 etc. and active b6.

Without this you cant take zinc. Since zinc will put pressure on already low vitamin B2 and phosphorus, since zinc turns vitamin B6 into an active form, and this makes niacin .turning of vitamin b6 into it its active form requires, b2 phosphorus magnesium and zinc. So to have NADPH you need zinc. and without NADPH you cant recycle glutathione.

Zinc alone will lower B2 levels and will cause lower ionized calcium. So slow oxidizers if they take zinc alone often see their calcium levels GO UP. Potassium goes up just because zinc increases CA and converts CO2 into bicarbonate. SO to take zinc alone is very very bad for a slow oxidizer.

MattyB , why dont look into those programs of TEI... those guys know all of those things and knew them for yeas, and all interactions. The current research is like 20 years behind.

People who try to create protocols end up creating their protocols. |But it is so hard to create one protocol for everyone. Why not just follow TEI.

Look at this document from TEI, they had this in 1989. and tested all of this for ages. http://traceelements.com/Docs/News Nov-Dec 89.pdf

this is from 1989 .

Slow oxidizer does not have ionized calcium. .

Sometimes when I understand more and more of the interactions and I go, holy shit, TEiI already knew it. It is still amazing to me that people the current research is done on such a low levels. Like they study vitamin D< or study vitamins C, or study vitamin E/ but they dont study all interactions at once.

 

[Nina]

Mattyb, calcium chloride totally kills the virus of herpes, it is tested millions of time in russia. My father , my mom , my aunt , all had those shot done.

As we saw in that study that h202 in the cell with the presence of ionized calcium = virus death.

I think the explanations above are just not biochemical explanations, they are too made up IMO. I might be not correct. but this is what I saw from the studies.

It was obvious from that study that to kills the virus you need h202 plus ionized calcium in the cell. Without ionized calcium it simply did not work.

So vitamin D to me does none of those things but provides calcium cell overload. It does not have any magical properties IMO

H202 plus ionized calcium system = primary defense from the virus.

glutathione attachment and carry = secondary defense against virus.

But without glutathione = you cant make h202. thus these too things are connected.


I am not saying you are not right, but I am usually trying to get to the level of molecular biochemistry, not some made up terms, when they talk about upregulation of some MHC class 2 expression etc. IMO it is simply protein kinase which is calcium dependant simply upregulate this protein.
But that is also way above molecular biochemstry levels. That is still enzymatic reactions.

Maybe thats why i crave dairy

 

[Helen]

Maybe thats why i crave dairy

Nina , follow the protocol MattyB outlined, LOL, it is a correct protocol

We are just discussing the specifics of vitamin D in this case.

 

[RebelWithACause]

You need some D

 

[MNK99]

That's just rude. Lol.

 

[RebelWithACause]

That's just rude. Lol.

I am a doctor, trust me.

 

[MNK99]

I party with doctors... they'd tend to agree, but they're (often) douches, so it's hard to say. I've gotten laid and still had insomnia and "some word like craziness but less negative." I mean cool docs, surgeons not GP's.
"eccentricity", let's say. I was still hyper next morning!
I mean not me, some guy I know. I read somewhere. L-term relns may be different. Also hugely annoying, I'd imagine. Just k i loves everyones.
Look at all those old men and women (couples) screaming at the sea and radio (when weather comes on).