B1, B2, Chronic fatigue syndrome

[supernature]

Thiamine and Riboflavin for Chronic Fatigue - Hormones Matter

"Here was young man (30 years old) who, six months after surviving infective endocarditis of the native valve that necessitated, not only the use of some pretty powerful antibiotics, but also, an aortic valve replacement and oral anticoagulation therapy, developed profound and unremitting fatigue. Several years and conventional treatments later, physicians considered the mitochondria and the prospect that mitochondrial damage might be behind the fatigue and other symptoms. Mitochondrial testing ensued and upon confirmation, treatment with vitamins, 300mg of thiamine (vitamin B1) and 300mg of riboflavin (vitamin b2) commenced. Within a month, there was significant improvement that was maintained at the five year followup. Effectively, vitamins treated what medicine could not."

"

• longstanding fatigue that did not improve with sleep
• impairment in short-term memory and concentration
• headache behind the eyes and in the back of the head
• post-exertional malaise that lasted more than 24 hours
• dry eyes
• slow digestion with postprandial fullness
• Raynaud’s phenomenon in the coldest winter months

"

 

[Helen]

EXACTLY

electrolytes protocol also provides all needed cofactors to make them active

 

[Aleksandr]

dry eyes?!?! maybe i should get on this shit...
oh wait its in stresspak...

 

[Aleksandr]

"The primary responsibility of mitochondria is to produce cellular energy. When they cannot produce sufficient cellular energy, resources are reallocated to survival functions. All other functions become less important and fatigue envelops the person. Fatigue is a mitochondrial survival mechanism. Fatigue tells us that the mitochondria are struggling. It does not tell us why, but it does tell us that there is something causing distress and that there is insufficient energy to resolve the problem."

aka we lose our hair because the energy is better used elsewhere in an ATP-esque survival situation

 

[Orion]

dry eyes?!?! maybe i should get on this shit...
oh wait its in stresspak...

After accutane, people reported success with 1600mg B1 per day, thats way above the stresspak amounts. High dose testing!

 

[Aleksandr]

After accutane, people reported success with 1600mg B1 per day, thats way above the stresspak amounts. High dose testing!

Can u link me to this info?

BTW @Orion its weird it seems the B's have helped you a lot (from memory, high dose b1 and b2?) but we have different physiology based on our hair tests. Still, we are both ex-accutane. I wonder if accutane messes up mitochondria and taking b1 and b2 restore its function as the mitochondria articles on OP's link seem to theorise.

 

[Aleksandr]

Check out this for b1/thiamine :

[Transcript] - What Happens If You Take Too Much Creatine, A Notorious Deficiency On High-Protein Diets, How To Become A Nutrition Ninja & More With Chris Masterjohn. - Ben Greenfield Fitness - Diet, Fat Loss and Performance Advice

Chris masterjohn says one of the key reasons people feel more energy on keto is that to burn carbs you need twice the thiamine (brainfog after a carb rich meal is one indicator). So the most thiamine sparing diet is high fat high protein (bs from the protein)


... or i guess just supping the b1.

@Nina wonder if this relates to yoy

 

[Aleksandr]

If you think about it, we are a generation addicted to sugar. Sugar burns up thiamine. Aint no thiamine in sugar

 

[Helen]

@m_arch and to burn fats, and protein you need biotin and carnitine, and vitamin C. and tons of glutathione ( both b1 and b2) to support that ascorbate. which is needed in most reactions)) this is why it is known as heavy fat diets scurvy

this is why high meat diet, causes cancer

Keto diet is getting older diet IMO. People look really old , lose all their hair on it, and look much worse than sugar people. High sugar people look young, but they get wrinkly skin

Diet needs to be balanced. any extreme diet causes aging.


It was like this 1) 1900-early 2000 - high meat diet, more like keto. 2) 2000- 2015 vegan , high sugar high potassium. now back to 3)carnivore

Sick of these idiots))


In period 1- cancer rate were the highest. then in vegan cancer rates are much lower, but there are problems with a gut.


Russia is mostly keto diet , heavy meat , not many carbs. Age big.

 

[Helen]

@m_arch but you are right if you go heavy on sugar, B1 goes down, that is why I never undertstood ray peat.

I explained all of this in electrolytes protocol. dont get why you guys still wondering around))

Keto diet is a NO NO


Orion is a fast oxidizer on the hairtest same as you.( original hairtest) he had problems with burning fat. that is why I rec'd to him b2

 

[Helen]

As far as B1 and b2. these were the center of attention for years, on forums. taking high dose this or that. No one got cured from this.

Look at phoenix rising. Since it is not about these. you need all vitamins along with electrolytes to clean out the system. to make everything work.

I have a neighbour with CFS, who tried to take just b1 b2, It caused nothing but a crash. And b2 separately caused liver disease. And he had to be hospitalized.

Now with B complex even with high doses b1 and b2 , that does not happen , so it is wrong to put emphasys on certains Bs.

I mean riboflavin transporter can only take up 30mg at a time. thus it is hard to overload.

without b5 , all these will cause just a CRASH.

And without b5 , b1 and b2 will just cause totall BILE deficiency, since b2 and b1 will consume b5 like crazy. Since b1 and b2 burn fuel and b5 is needed to make coenzyme A. and conenzyme A will be used like crazy by b1 and b2. And all your bile production needs coenzyme A to produce bile


@Orion is taking all of these vitamins, along with electrolytes, and minerals.

If you skip any of those parts you will just cause deficiencies in a heart beat.


Orion took b5 previously in very high ammounts this is why b2 helped him more

 

[Aleksandr]

As far as B1 and b2. these were the center of attention for years, on forums. taking high dose this or that. No one got cured from this.

Look at phoenix rising. Since it is not about these. you need all vitamins along with electrolytes to clean out the system. to make everything work.

I have a neighbour with CFS, who tried to take just b1 b2, It caused nothing but a crash. And b2 separately caused liver disease. And he had to be hospitalized.

Now with B complex even with high doses b1 and b2 , that does not happen , so it is wrong to put emphasys on certains Bs.

I mean riboflavin transporter can only take up 30mg at a time. thus it is hard to overload.

without b5 , all these will cause just a CRASH.

And without b5 , b1 and b2 will just cause totall BILE deficiency, since b2 and b1 will consume b5 like crazy. Since b1 and b2 burn fuel and b5 is needed to make coenzyme A. and conenzyme A will be used like crazy by b1 and b2. And all your bile production needs coenzyme A to produce bile


@Orion is taking all of these vitamins, along with electrolytes, and minerals.

If you skip any of those parts you will just cause deficiencies in a heart beat.

@Orion

When you say all vitamins along with all electrolytes, are you just talking about Bs and magnesium/potassium chlorides like in the electrolyte protocol?

Is there a recommended supplement with all these Bs in the right ratio (i assume ratio is important)? And its all inactive Bs if i remember correctly?

 

[Helen]

@Orion

When you say all vitamins along with all electrolytes, are you just talking about Bs and magnesium/potassium chlorides like in the electrolyte protocol?

Is there a recommended supplement with all these Bs in the right ratio (i assume ratio is important)? And its all inactive Bs if i remember correctly?

I rec'd all the Bs in correct ratios. and said that the only ratio which can be played with is b1 vs b2. some do better on more b1 , some on more b2

He is taking sodium also and all electrolytes. and calcium is also needed eventually

Orion is taking full electrolytes protocol, amino acids, bs, electrolytes, diet , liver cleanses, etc.

Protocol is in Boris's signature in hackstasis WIKI

PLus he is taking recs from hairtest minerals.

You can see what he is taking in Orion's signature)) it says Orion's log

He is also taking C and E, those 2 are recycled by glutathione.

 

[Aleksandr]

I rec'd all the Bs in correct ratios. and said that the only ratio which can be played with is b1 vs b2. some do better on more b1 , some on more b2

He is taking sodium also and all electrolytes. and calcium is also needed eventually

Orion is taking full electrolytes protocol, amino acids, bs, electrolytes, diet , liver cleanses, etc.

Protocol is in Boris's signature in hackstasis WIKI

PLus he is taking recs from hairtest minerals.

You can see what he is taking in Orion's signature)) it says Orion's log

He is also taking C and E, those 2 are recycled by glutathione.

Well anyway im taking stresspak at the moment and feel like shite. Headaches, low energy, super dry eyes

 

[Helen]

@m_arch Also you have to take into account, that substitution therapy is just substitution therapy. ARL and TEI dont do that kind of therapy.


For example. I felt great on b2 libido wise and energy wise. While on it. But when I got off, I got worse than before. My POIS increased , and I got worse.

On b1 I felt terrible, I felt POIS I felt total bad feelings, but when I came off I felt better than pre B1, and no POIS. So it cured POIS.

So this is a difference between substitution therapy and contrarian.


B2 is very low in many people, and when I measured fad and FMN they were fine, means that they are just crazily used up.

like in Barbaar tests, B2 is very low, but fmn and FAD are not low. means b2 is used up , not deficient.

It is understandble. So to fix this we need to take care of something which uses up b2.

 

[Helen]

Well anyway im taking stresspak at the moment and feel like shite. Headaches, low energy, super dry eyes

what does stress pack have to do with electrolytes protocol?

stress pack is never given alone on ARL. It just supports vitamins which were lost in high ratio. but if you dont do anything about high ratio, it will make you feel worse.


Stress pack has none of the vitamins we are talking about.

 

[Helen]

@m_arch Accutane causes dry eyes in most people.

Dry eyes is probably either low water, or low acetylcholine.

For instance b1 is needed to make acetylcholine.

Accutane also causes dry skin in most people, Orion is anti accutane, he has the opposite symptoms of accutane people.

 

[Troy]

@m_arch Also you have to take into account, that substitution therapy is just substitution therapy. ARL and TEI dont do that kind of therapy.


For example. I felt great on b2 libido wise and energy wise. While on it. But when I got off, I got worse than before. My POIS increased , and I got worse.

On b1 I felt terrible, I felt POIS I felt total bad feelings, but when I came off I felt better than pre B1, and no POIS. So it cured POIS.

So this is a difference between substitution therapy and contrarian.


B2 is very low in many people, and when I measured fad and FMN they were fine, means that they are just crazily used up.

like in Barbaar tests, B2 is very low, but fmn and FAD are not low. means b2 is used up , not deficient.

It is understandble. So to fix this we need to take care of something which uses up b2.

So i should stop b2 based on this. It's made me feel so shit so far and ive stopped taking it. Let's see how I bounce back.

 

[Aleksandr]

what does stress pack have to do with electrolytes protocol?

stress pack is never given alone on ARL. It just supports vitamins which were lost in high ratio. but if you dont do anything about high ratio, it will make you feel worse.


Stress pack has none of the vitamins we are talking about.

Stresspak is recommended for my last hairtest oxidation type... fast oxi with high sodium lower potassium. You told me about it you said it has everything needed to make adrenaline


??? You think its making me worse???

 

[Troy]

@m_arch Also you have to take into account, that substitution therapy is just substitution therapy. ARL and TEI dont do that kind of therapy.


For example. I felt great on b2 libido wise and energy wise. While on it. But when I got off, I got worse than before. My POIS increased , and I got worse.

On b1 I felt terrible, I felt POIS I felt total bad feelings, but when I came off I felt better than pre B1, and no POIS. So it cured POIS.

So this is a difference between substitution therapy and contrarian.


B2 is very low in many people, and when I measured fad and FMN they were fine, means that they are just crazily used up.

like in Barbaar tests, B2 is very low, but fmn and FAD are not low. means b2 is used up , not deficient.

It is understandble. So to fix this we need to take care of something which uses up b2.

Any ideas on what we can do to take care of what uses up b2?