DIM

[Aleksandr]

"Diindolylmethane, or DIM, is a phytochemical produced during the digestion of cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower. Besides eating these vegetables, you can obtain DIM through supplements. DIM is produced from a chemical compound in the vegetables known as indole-3-carbinol or I3C."

Has anyone tried this? The most popular supplement seems like "EstroBlock" LOL - so using gbolds theories if it's blocking estrogen then it will actually increase estrogen when you come off it. I guess revestraol and red wine is doing the same thing. It seems like a few of us have low estrogen.

The raypeat crew all seem to think it will decrease metabolic rate (not necessarily a bad thing for slow oxidisers).

Curious for any thoughts / experiences with it. What are your thoughts [mention]mattyb[/mention] ?

 

[Canari]

It seems like a few of us have low estrogen.

haha, when I read this, I imidiately started to think something.... and had no time to elaborate the sentence... and was reading my thoughts ! just there:

The raypeat crew all seem to think it will decrease metabolic rate (not necessarily a bad thing for slow oxidisers).

After my organic acids test, i was advised to take this I3C.
I am so lost that I want to know what I take before I take it, so I still do nothing...

Am I right that low estrogen has to do with tissue high zinc to copper? Am I on the right track thinking I took progest-e which lead me to this abnormal ratio of not enough copper to zinc?

 

[mattyb]

"Diindolylmethane, or DIM, is a phytochemical produced during the digestion of cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower. Besides eating these vegetables, you can obtain DIM through supplements. DIM is produced from a chemical compound in the vegetables known as indole-3-carbinol or I3C."

Has anyone tried this? The most popular supplement seems like "EstroBlock" LOL - so using gbolds theories if it's blocking estrogen then it will actually increase estrogen when you come off it. I guess revestraol and red wine is doing the same thing. It seems like a few of us have low estrogen.

The raypeat crew all seem to think it will decrease metabolic rate (not necessarily a bad thing for slow oxidisers).

Curious for any thoughts / experiences with it. What are your thoughts @mattyb ?

If you are low in estrogen you are probably sensitive to it, meaning resveratrol will do nothing for you (it's a sensitizer, better for people with high estrogen once you come off). If you are low in estrogen, you need to figure out ways to stimulate production.

For guys with high prog and low estrogen, you want to shunt that prog into cortisol synthesis. So you fast for a long time, water or breuss is probably fine. It's that simple. The stress of fasting will balance prog and estrogen and increase cortisol production (while also causing cortisol sensitization). This will also raise NAD+ which will facilitate 3b-HSD reaction. You also can't be in alkalosis when you are fasting for a long time, it's pretty much impossible.

Then when you come off the fast, you do a proper refeed and you make eggs a central part of it for b-vitamins and cholesterol, to upregulate steroidogenesis. Do cooked greens or the greens w/ EVOO and ACV 1-2 hours before meals for the first week to get stomach acid producing again throughout this. Then you load up on protein.

 

[Orion]

For guys with high prog and low estrogen, you want to shunt that prog into cortisol synthesis. So you fast for a long time, water or breuss is probably fine. It's that simple. The stress of fasting will balance prog and estrogen and increase cortisol production (while also causing cortisol sensitization). This will also raise NAD+ which will facilitate 3b-HSD reaction. You also can't be in alkalosis when you are fasting for a long time, it's pretty much impossible.

Then when you come off the fast, you do a proper refeed and you make eggs a central part of it for b-vitamins and cholesterol, to upregulate steroidogenesis. Do cooked greens or the greens w/ EVOO and ACV 1-2 hours before meals for the first week to get stomach acid producing again throughout this. Then you load up on protein.

Coming off a 54 day fast this upcoming Saturday afternoon, and will be the test subject for this. Big thanks [mention]mattyb[/mention] for posting the helpful breaking fast tips. Eggs will be on the menu(lemon egg soup), and tons of greens. I am planning in the second week to use some extra HCl and will try my own extra protein mix(histidine, serine, aspartic, valine, glycine, taurine, lysine, tryosine, arginine, alanine/phenylalanine), also some Zn Carnosine(1 week only) to fire up the Zn finger theory. The Pb in gelatin/collagen scared me off the Great lakes. Plan is to avoid taking minerals/vitamins and then get hair tested and get some blood work, about 1 month after the fast is broken.

My skin is absolutely the bests in has ever been in my adult life, dandruff eliminated, and now the leanest I have been, really want all this to stick. To early to tell, but also have faint vellus hairs on my shedding/receding hairline, encouraging but far from full regrowth, work in progress.

 

[Aleksandr]

"Diindolylmethane, or DIM, is a phytochemical produced during the digestion of cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower. Besides eating these vegetables, you can obtain DIM through supplements. DIM is produced from a chemical compound in the vegetables known as indole-3-carbinol or I3C."

Has anyone tried this? The most popular supplement seems like "EstroBlock" LOL - so using gbolds theories if it's blocking estrogen then it will actually increase estrogen when you come off it. I guess revestraol and red wine is doing the same thing. It seems like a few of us have low estrogen.

The raypeat crew all seem to think it will decrease metabolic rate (not necessarily a bad thing for slow oxidisers).

Curious for any thoughts / experiences with it. What are your thoughts @mattyb ?

If you are low in estrogen you are probably sensitive to it, meaning resveratrol will do nothing for you (it's a sensitizer, better for people with high estrogen once you come off). If you are low in estrogen, you need to figure out ways to stimulate production.

For guys with high prog and low estrogen, you want to shunt that prog into cortisol synthesis. So you fast for a long time, water or breuss is probably fine. It's that simple. The stress of fasting will balance prog and estrogen and increase cortisol production (while also causing cortisol sensitization). This will also raise NAD+ which will facilitate 3b-HSD reaction. You also can't be in alkalosis when you are fasting for a long time, it's pretty much impossible.

Then when you come off the fast, you do a proper refeed and you make eggs a central part of it for b-vitamins and cholesterol, to upregulate steroidogenesis. Do cooked greens or the greens w/ EVOO and ACV 1-2 hours before meals for the first week to get stomach acid producing again throughout this. Then you load up on protein.

Thanks for the info. How long do you think i would need to do a fast for to get estrogen / cortisol working properly? I'm already lean.. about 12.5% body fat (72kg at 6"1) so i dont think i should fast for long if i do this route

 

[mattyb]

Thanks for the info. How long do you think i would need to do a fast for to get estrogen / cortisol working properly? I'm already lean.. about 12.5% body fat (72kg at 6"1) so i dont think i should fast for long if i do this route

Hm, damn you are skinny. This will limit your ability to fast. You could try 16/8 IF with only the morning salad until you break the fast instead to raise cortisol and acidify stomach before eating. That way you can still get in enough calories to maintain bodyweight. IF will help sensitize cortisol over the long run, it will likely just take longer then the real fast. The stress load of fasting during the first few weeks may be enough to upregulate estrogen as well. I know estrogen has a diurnal pattern in young men, in that it lowers during the last half of the day just like cortisol. So it may raise just like cortisol does with some feeding stress. (and don't worry about IF raising cortisol in the mornings, over time you upregulate sensitivity just like during a fast and basal levels come down).

 

[mattyb]

Coming off a 54 day fast this upcoming Saturday afternoon, and will be the test subject for this. Big thanks @mattyb for posting the helpful breaking fast tips. Eggs will be on the menu(lemon egg soup), and tons of greens. I am planning in the second week to use some extra HCl and will try my own extra protein mix(histidine, serine, aspartic, valine, glycine, taurine, lysine, tryosine, arginine, alanine/phenylalanine), also some Zn Carnosine(1 week only) to fire up the Zn finger theory. The Pb in gelatin/collagen scared me off the Great lakes. Plan is to avoid taking minerals/vitamins and then get hair tested and get some blood work, about 1 month after the fast is broken.

My skin is absolutely the bests in has ever been in my adult life, dandruff eliminated, and now the leanest I have been, really want all this to stick. To early to tell, but also have faint vellus hairs on my shedding/receding hairline, encouraging but far from full regrowth, work in progress.

I am very hopeful for you! You make the Breuss fast sound well worth the effort. I am excited to see how the refeeding goes. We're all with you!