Beer and PFS symptoms

[snowball]

I have noticed that drinking beer make me feel better - reduces my back pain, better erection, deeper voice, etc.
My hypothesis is that drinking beer reduces progesterone (inhibits pregnenolone -> progesterone) which ultimately puts me close to pre-PFS state. To test my assumption I did a search and found a few studies linking alcohol and progesterone levels though they were mostly conducted with women.
I will continue my research and if anyone want to share thought, chime in!

 

[Helen]

Beer is estrogenic. Has copper b vitamins and selenium

 

[Aleksandr]

Yeah i was thinking the same. Isnt it that estrogen feels good?

 

[snowball]

Beer is estrogenic. Has copper b vitamins and selenium

It is estrogenic but there is another aspect which is very important and that is about progesterone IMO.

Read this:
The 2000 issue of “Alcohol and Alcoholism” noted that even moderate alcohol consumption can decrease progesterone levels in pre-menopausal women.(source: Livestrong, study)

In presence of alcohol, NAD-> NADH and due to NAD insufficiency, pregnenolone does not converts to progesterone.(confirmed, source: NCBI)

[mention]gbolduev[/mention] [mention]m_arch[/mention]

 

[MNK99]

Alcohol also affects GABA, dopamine, and a ton of neurotransmitters (in a bad way when its abused).

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306452211003691

Back pain, could be its relaxant/ CNS depressant effects, and also I think GABA is involved in contraction of muscles.
I think a lot of people start to drink excessively when on SSRI/SNRI's.

I do much better with dopamine than I do with serotonin agents. Certain stimulants helped me kind of heal from PSSD until I fully healed. I wonder if that's the case for my PFS as well. I hope so cuz I can use the focus. For me alc makes things worse, may seem t help mentally, but is a crutch I don't like and have beaten at times. \

 

[Aleksandr]

I think gbolds theory would make beer increase estrogen in the short term, but less when you come off it?

 

[EllaDisenchanted]

Alcohol also affects GABA, dopamine, and a ton of neurotransmitters (in a bad way when its abused).

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306452211003691

Back pain, could be its relaxant/ CNS depressant effects, and also I think GABA is involved in contraction of muscles.
I think a lot of people start to drink excessively when on SSRI/SNRI's.

I do much better with dopamine than I do with serotonin agents. Certain stimulants helped me kind of heal from PSSD until I fully healed. I wonder if that's the case for my PFS as well. I hope so cuz I can use the focus. For me alc makes things worse, may seem t help mentally, but is a crutch I don't like and have beaten at times. \

What stimulants helped you kind of heal? How did you fully heal?

 

[MNK99]

I'm 30 now. I was like 21-23 then. TBH: I have ADHD hardcore.
But, I abused some illicit stimulant then after I quit Effexor. I don't recommend that. I should be taking dexedrine and have been in my mid to late 20s. I got thru my early 20s with vodka and cocaine. ***I Highly don't Recommend***. But, the way I'm wired I felt normal taking that illicit stimulant. As bad as substance abuse is - it messed me up less than certain meds, incl. the SNRI/SSRI.

Really, I needed to be told I was ADHD -- and I could have avoided the misdiagnosis of generalized anx disorder and thus Effexor.
Again, I do not recommend drugs. My situation was dire and I'm glad I got out of all that.

Had the mental health office at my first uni diagnosed me correctly I'd have avoided all that.

FULLY healed with time, and running daily, and weights. But it was brutal. This was like 2010-2011. I quit drinking, got active, got school accommodations, and walked like 7-8miles a day (I'm fast, and overthink, and it cleared my head and could let me enjoy music again, same with running on the treadmill/track).

BTW I quit drinking first time at 24 I think with this book:
https://www.amazon.ca/Easy-Way-Stop-Drinking-Revolutionary/dp/1402736479
and all other self-medication.

IN short: Moving, quitting meds, new friends, new responsibilities, working out like hell, meditation. I wish I could give you and everyone an easy answer. I think my situation was worse than most. Also - revenge* was a motivator.
-Also I recommend anyone with ADHD or bipolar to stay a million miles away from antidepressants and finasteride, possibly accutane too.

 

[barbaar]

[mention]MNK99[/mention] ADD here. I can't even handle Ritalin though, it nearly made me psychotic lol. Then citalopram gave me pssd and now stimulants barely work anymore.

I also had complete return of my libido once when at a festival after drinking and not sleeping all night. The next day I could actually look at someone attractive and things would start happening down there. That really caught me off guard as that hadn't happened for like 2 years at least. There's definitely a link there.

 

[MNK99]

I think I can "handle" most stimulants but adderall killed my hair. It still looked soft and luscious tho and was amazing. BUT that volume loss scared me half to death. I failed labor economics and some other class / withdrew from them soon after.

Anyways, then I eventually got on dexedrine. I tried ritalin, thought maybe I was too irritated. Adderall was sick for one day, but its too racy and too many side effects. Dexedrine is much more dopaminergic and less norepinephrine-effecting. Racemic amphetamines much like racemic methamphetamine is where the nastiest side effects come from. Desoxyn was pure d-meth and was an ADHD drug back in the day (before my time). It has less area under the curve and is the right isomer d-amphetamine, so its smoother. One must really try and focus and get used to it, otherwise it makes them hyperfocus on the wrong things, or whatever's pressing/interesting/worriesome. I got over that eventually. I think in my 20's I mostly hooked up with girls after drinking... but I met great ones in the daytime sober too.

What I mean is, that feeling -- attraction, can happen if we place ourselves in the right environment. Like, that cute girl in class is better for me, or at a cafe, or elevator than someone I can only vibe with in a club -- bc honestly I have enough memory and other issues. Ritalin and such made me grind my teeth. I potentiated dexedrine with baking soda, magnesium, and reduced side effects such as bruxism with magnesium as well. SORRY for being off topic a bit. Making the system more basic, and eating late at night post workout helped my focus, gym results, and mental health (with breaks of course, need to eat!). Also alternate day fasting was great too, up until I was really skinny.

 

[barbaar]

[mention]MNK99[/mention] yeah Ritalin fucked my hair up too. It was really thick before, so it still looks ok but I've never had so much hair fall out as when I regularly took it. I'm sure long term stimulant use messes with your mineral levels, I know Ritalin depletes magnesium at least. But yeah this is pretty off topic. Back to beer lol.

Anyone else get their libido back (at least partially) when hungover?

 

[freeflow]

@MNK99 yeah Ritalin fucked my hair up too. It was really thick before, so it still looks ok but I've never had so much hair fall out as when I regularly took it. I'm sure long term stimulant use messes with your mineral levels, I know Ritalin depletes magnesium at least. But yeah this is pretty off topic. Back to beer lol.

Anyone else get their libido back (at least partially) when hungover?

I do not even have to go to hangover state, I just drink a glass of wine and libido appears, night time erections appear and i have some libido the next day too but starts to fade away. And it only happens if I drink like once a month, its not consistent. I also know another guy who has the same reaction to alcohol like i do

 

[barbaar]

[mention]freeflow[/mention] Nice. Have you tried resveratrol?

 

[freeflow]

yes, one time last saturday and something was different when I was looking at girls. But my DHT did not come back but I will keep experimenting with it. Tribulus lets my estrogen act again, it makes me emotional, i can cry on movies etc. But only 1-2 out of 10 times my DHT appears and i become agressive, oilier face and some pimples come out.
Im thinking about resveratrol/tribulus and R andro. Tribulus brought me back to recovery feeling the most but I always crash. Pine pollen is also considerable.

 

[EllaDisenchanted]

I'm 30 now. I was like 21-23 then. TBH: I have ADHD hardcore.
But, I abused some illicit stimulant then after I quit Effexor. I don't recommend that. I should be taking dexedrine and have been in my mid to late 20s. I got thru my early 20s with alcohol and cocaine. ***I Highly don't Recommend***. But, the way I'm wired I felt normal taking that illicit stimulant. As bad as substance abuse is - it messed me up less than certain meds, incl. the SNRI/SSRI.

Really, I needed to be told I was ADHD -- and I could have avoided the misdiagnosis of generalized anx disorder and thus Effexor.
Again, I do not recommend drugs. My situation was dire and I'm glad I got out of all that.

Had the mental health office at my first uni diagnosed me correctly I'd have avoided all that.

FULLY healed with time, and running daily, and weights. But it was brutal. This was like 2010-2011. I quit drinking, got active, got school accommodations, and walked like 7-8miles a day (I'm fast, and overthink, and it cleared my head and could let me enjoy music again, same with running on the treadmill/track).

BTW I quit drinking first time at 24 I think with this book:
https://www.amazon.ca/Easy-Way-Stop-Drinking-Revolutionary/dp/1402736479
and all other self-medication.

IN short: Moving, quitting meds, new friends, new responsibilities, working out like hell, meditation. I wish I could give you and everyone an easy answer. I think my situation was worse than most. Also - revenge* was a motivator.
-Also I recommend anyone with ADHD or bipolar to stay a million miles away from antidepressants and finasteride, possibly accutane too.

I also have ADD and my PSSD is from an SNRI (cymbalta). Adderal and ritalin help with the ADD and also give me some sensation back but only for a short time - it doesn't last.

Did you have genital anhedonia? How long did it last? How long did it take you to fully heal? You got better without any meds? I just really want this thing to go away.

 

[MNK99]

Didn't know about my ADHD then (thought it was overdiagnosed... was terrified of psyche meds and all meds).
I quit EFFEXOR XR like in 2008 (cold turkey). I was extremely ill and this was a bad choice maybe but I could not physically see my doctor (who was very wrong).
Tried Zoloft after that (?) that and quit too c.t.

NO meds till 2013. MAYBE 2010 Sexual feel|ings 50-60% and quitting alcohol 70-75%, more with stims (non prescribed), and then higher -like 85-110% with nofap 1month + (I made 45 d only). I remember in 2008 and 2009 no sensation to ice, in certain areas, and maybe heat too. I'm certain SOBRIety earlier and NO PMO (nofap) in conjunction with exercise and diet (I did these, but the first two parts were HARDER to do in a timely fashion), would have sped it all up.

YES, got better w no meds. Keep in mind I was a complete mess at 21 -SO I DIDN"T know How bad sex drive was until I was in a relnship right after that quItting and moving. Sex drive was HIGH actually but e.q. and sensation wasn't . It got better. 2-3years. I used antidepressants maybe 1-1.5 (consecutive) years give or take 17 or so days when I tried other ones like prozac. I got better at performing, realized I need help -- then tried to sober up at the same time (drinking) and then later nofap.

Pleasure issues were SNRI/SSRI + PMO for me and I guess probably alcohol, etc. Fixing all that and abstinence from all substances except say caffeine and such, helped Me. Game, working on life goals, exercise and diet took me partway there. I felt my entire brain was fried and I was good as dead -- so sex wasn't my main issue. When I gt better and better, i know nofap would help quicker and in 2011 and 2012 and such, I had crazy sex drive esp when very active -- until 2015 and 2016.

 

[bruschi11]

[mention]MNK99[/mention] when did you take fin and come down with pfs?

Or are you pssd? Your story is all over the place haha a lot more than mine! I thought mine couldn’t be matched.

The whole prior issues to PFS thing kills me sometimes. How did that stuff end up in my system.

 

[MNK99]

Yeah, sorry I'm so scatterbrained and non-sequiter.

I was 20-21 when I took SNRI/SSRI's. Fixed it at 23ish? And further fixing as I got a bit older. I didn't know but I knew it was bad whatever it was and that it was med caused.
-I had major misdiagnosis at 21.
-Effexor and such 2008 and pssd later and resolved 2010. FIXED!
-No treatment besides healthiness and fights against bad habits. FIXED within reason!!! I mean bad habits -- addictive personality never ever fully went away.
-Dexedrine 2013 end to 2016. And life was still hard but I was happy with things and efficient, so why'd I mess with it. Great.
-Trialled lamotrigine and this caused greater severe hair loss last winter and this year. And then finaster-die.Terrible!
Huge huge mistake... a major error. I never wanted to mess with my cognitive function.

Srry for the confusion.
With ADHD meds, caffeine this wd make slightly more sense.

 

[stefoo2]

Going back to the original topic.

This has been a huge mystery since I have gotten ill (CFS, MCS, depression, anxiety, POIS, ect...)
Alcohol makes me feel better ON ALL LEVELS. Even the next morning, I feel better if I drank the night before (this is only true if I don't drink EVERY night). The only time I can orgasm is when I am drunk, otherwise I get terrible POIS symptoms.

My depression goes away, my anxiety goes away, my extreme agitation goes away, my chemical sensitivities fade away to a tolerable level.

Although, due to my sensitivities I cannot drink beer, only clear gluten free alcohol.

Any thoughts? @gbolduev
Progesterone?


Side note.. I think that I got ill from a mixture of accutane and a few different SSRI/SNRI. I honestly tried so many anti-depressants I can't remember the names of half them. I think it was around 8 total I tried.

 

[stefoo2]

It is estrogenic but there is another aspect which is very important and that is about progesterone IMO.

Read this:
The 2000 issue of “Alcohol and Alcoholism” noted that even moderate alcohol consumption can decrease progesterone levels in pre-menopausal women.(source: Livestrong, study)

In presence of alcohol, NAD-> NADH and due to NAD insufficiency, pregnenolone does not converts to progesterone.(confirmed, source: NCBI)

[mention]gbolduev[/mention] [mention]m_arch[/mention]

This study might interest you
Acute effect of alcohol on estradiol, estrone, progesterone, prolactin, cortisol, and luteinizing hormone in premenopausal women. - PubMed - NCBI

"We suggest that the estradiol and progesterone effects are related to decreased steroid catabolism, resulting from the alcohol-mediated increase in the hepatic NADH-to-NAD ratio. "