H202/ catalase

[bruschi11]

Wish I wasn’t writing here in this fashion. I want to go back to my log and continue there. But I’m literally on deaths door. I am being destroyed by h202.

I know gluth production, catalase are biggest things and latter probably more so. I am trying but now completely bed ridden for most part.

I had setback at end of year but then gave blood. Jan 3rd. I’ve literally been dying ever since. Have not been able to get in control. Iron and copper both crashed bad in htma.

Copper bio-availability just causes more h202 and I crash whenever copper becomes bio-available. I’m starting to think keeping b6 active to keep superoxide down is key. Stop the production line.

I wish gbold were around to help. I’m literally dying. The giving blood thing was the worst thing cuz the iron I had showing in hair was clearly protecting me from h202. After blood donation everythign changed. And I had no idea what I was treating till last two weeks. So been a giant free fall since.

 

[bruschi11]

“People get bettter when iron goes up in hair”- gbold years ago.

Historically… 20+ htmas now. I get better with increasing iron. Like it changes everything. Have to think that is due to catalase now knowing the dangers of h202.

Active b6 I’m sure increases h202 short term. But long term? If we are keeping h202 from converting back to superoxide it should be helpful. Also active b6 stomach acid iron absorption.

I wish I didn’t give blood. I was learning my issues. I had bloodwork right before I gave blood and it gave great info as to why system died the prior two weeks. But then giving blood was worst decision of my life.

HTMA shows a need for zinc it seems according to Dana summers. And I think b6 active has been down. I realize low doses of b3 and b5/ biotin are needed for cysteine metabolism. And controlling cysteine can help control both h202 and retain zinc. Glycine too for CYSteine metabilism. I think b5/biotin retain histidine.

I’m all over the place but I feel like I’m understanding all the components here. But I just feel like situation got out of hand. My brain barrier is destroyed. I’m in 4 lows. It is a true true horror story what happens after the blood donation.

Ferritin went from 100 to 160 with help of Dhea novemebr to December. Then dropped down to 60 6 weeks after donating. My life has been destroyed from said donation.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Good to have you here again! Can't help much with your issue right now. Just saying keep your head up. Especially during the hard times. Have also experienced many fucked up days. When you go hard at fixing health you go through it a lot.

 

[bruschi11]

Good to have you here again! Can't help much with your issue right now. Just saying keep your head up. Especially during the hard times. Have also experienced many fucked up days. When you go hard at fixing health you go through it a lot.

Thanks dude hope you’re well.

I’ve been writing on ray peat forum will probably keep up there as I either get in control and survive this or literally die. Hydrogen peroxide is killing me. I don’t know what’s gonna happen.

But today I realized I’ve been moly deficient. And was going deficient. For weeks. The ahk and ghk patches I’ve used were beginning. Where they helped at first in January then in February they started hurting.

I didn’t know why. But histidne puttint pressure on moly was why. Then I got b5 and biotin going did ozone prior. Opening up histidine clearly is putting tons of pressure on moly. And moly= gluth and catalase two of biggest h202 detoxifiers.

If I survive this it will be because of all I learned here under gbold. He taught me to learn all the things I have. He pushed me in learning minerals and methylation. I just hope I’m not too late here.

If I fail it’s my fault. I shouldn’t have taken that antibiotic in 2019 which led to BMAA/ Cyanobacteria getting in my body. I shouldn’t have given blood. I should’ve learned methylation and mineral balance a lot sooner. I am to blame. I blew it. But here we are. Maybe I can recover from this.

I will likely be writing mostly on ray peat. I’m learning there. It’s not so biased about all things peat anymore. Seems like an even keeled place to talk health.

Hopefully I have success and can save my life. And come back here to tell the story. We shall see.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Thanks dude hope you’re well.

I’ve been writing on ray peat forum will probably keep up there as I either get in control and survive this or literally die. Hydrogen peroxide is killing me. I don’t know what’s gonna happen.

But today I realized I’ve been moly deficient. And was going deficient. For weeks. The ahk and ghk patches I’ve used were beginning. Where they helped at first in January then in February they started hurting.

I didn’t know why. But histidne puttint pressure on moly was why. Then I got b5 and biotin going did ozone prior. Opening up histidine clearly is putting tons of pressure on moly. And moly= gluth and catalase two of biggest h202 detoxifiers.

If I survive this it will be because of all I learned here under gbold. He taught me to learn all the things I have. He pushed me in learning minerals and methylation. I just hope I’m not too late here.

If I fail it’s my fault. I shouldn’t have taken that antibiotic in 2019 which led to BMAA/ Cyanobacteria getting in my body. I shouldn’t have given blood. I should’ve learned methylation and mineral balance a lot sooner. I am to blame. I blew it. But here we are. Maybe I can recover from this.

I will likely be writing mostly on ray peat. I’m learning there. It’s not so biased about all things peat anymore. Seems like an even keeled place to talk health.

Hopefully I have success and can save my life. And come back here to tell the story. We shall see.

Yea doing good in general. Ray Peat Forum banned me lol. A lot of crazy mfers on that forum.
Good luck mate.

I'll visit this forum once in a while.

 

[astolfo]

how do you know it's h2o2 to even begin with? do you have white hairs?
from what I understood is catalase can fail at multiple places. first is excess free metals/heavy metals in cell. body purposefully shuts down copper, so you increasing energy (h2o2) production by taking copper doesn't help the situation at all.

and then you need cofactors

Look at Morley Robbins, Rick Malter. They all look the same. Very grey hair.And definetely not fast metabolism. Fat with big stomachs. their catalase enzyme does not work properly. Since iron won't work without its cofactors. And ceruloplasmin is just one of them. Another one is PH dependant ALDH, and AO. which is b2 and molybdenum , plus NAD dependant. this enzyme is highly PH dependant. And it is the main problem.

Zinc converts ethanol to acetaldehyde which is broken down by these enzymes. thus zinc sometimes can cause lower iron bioavailability. And thus body is losing zinc to protect these enzymes in case of acetaldehyde overload. This creates low zinc environment and causes cancer. Zinc is needed to raise ceruloplasmin. But it only does that with b2 and molybdenum present.
Thus all these people could not get rid of their grey hair and actually created more oxidative stress to their bodies/

actually at this point it seems you need everything to catalase to work. and so many things are co-dependent. I would say try low grade chelation + repleting everything, electrolytes, vitamins, metals, aminos etc. and killing pathogens maybe. magnesium (you will need silicon too) will push out aluminium.
anything isolated, active or end of a pathway is too much risk if you're not absolutely sure what you're doing.

 

[bruschi11]

how do you know it's h2o2 to even begin with? do you have white hairs?
from what I understood is catalase can fail at multiple places. first is excess free metals/heavy metals in cell. body purposefully shuts down copper, so you increasing energy (h2o2) production by taking copper doesn't help the situation at all.

and then you need cofactors



actually at this point it seems you need everything to catalase to work. and so many things are co-dependent. I would say try low grade chelation + repleting everything, electrolytes, vitamins, metals, aminos etc. and killing pathogens maybe. magnesium (you will need silicon too) will push out aluminium.
anything isolated, active or end of a pathway is too much risk if you're not absolutely sure what you're doing.

I think I’m getting to bottom of this. Believe production of DHLA keeping cystine —> Cysteine working is severely required. Then Cysteine metabolism itself . There is going to be tons of give and take.

Selenium… something when I was on this forum used to kill me. Couldn’t tolerate 50mcg of selenite. Severely needed. I took 1000mcg today and felt better. Then hurt myself with stuff after.

I think I have good idea of what needs to be done but the damage is sooo bad from now 4 months of this being extreme. Yes beard going crazy grey in that time period.

Blood donation led to this. Giving blood gives fe3 aka htMa iron. HTMA iron “people get better when iron goes up in hair” gbold.

I have done 24 htmas. I always get better when iron goes up in hair. Outside one time when it went way too high after I got rid of Lyme disease.

 

[bruschi11]

It’s about gluth recycling by recycling CYSTINe/Cysteine rather than inflating b2 which will just pile the Cysteine burden.

One gbold theory was Cysteine gets stuck. Well that’s happening to me with cystine elevation in blood.

I also had bmaa toxicity which causes als and Parkinson’s. But same thing. It blocks xc antiporter causing cystine to get stuck.

Step one is unclogging cystine—>Cysteine via DHLA production (not too hard or you get killed by Cysteine quick). Step 2 Cysteine metabolism which relies on selenium b5 moly histidine biotin glycine ATP (the most important is ATP). Taurine supposedly helps.

Cysteine/ cystine in excess in relation to gluth = more h202. Also fe3 next to gluth for catalase. Selenium strongly increases catalase

 

[zancek0]

Wish I wasn’t writing here in this fashion. I want to go back to my log and continue there. But I’m literally on deaths door. I am being destroyed by h202.

I know gluth production, catalase are biggest things and latter probably more so. I am trying but now completely bed ridden for most part.

I had setback at end of year but then gave blood. Jan 3rd. I’ve literally been dying ever since. Have not been able to get in control. Iron and copper both crashed bad in htma.

Copper bio-availability just causes more h202 and I crash whenever copper becomes bio-available. I’m starting to think keeping b6 active to keep superoxide down is key. Stop the production line.

I wish gbold were around to help. I’m literally dying. The giving blood thing was the worst thing cuz the iron I had showing in hair was clearly protecting me from h202. After blood donation everythign changed. And I had no idea what I was treating till last two weeks. So been a giant free fall since.

Hey man, I've discovered this place just few weeks ago. I'm learning a lot, especially from Helen. And you as well.

I also found this discord server:

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.gg

If you don't know it yet I urge you to join. Many really knowledgeable people are there and they might help you. I hope you recover. I've read years worth of comments from you on this server, haha.

 

[bruschi11]

Hey man, I've discovered this place just few weeks ago. I'm learning a lot, especially from Helen. And you as well.

I also found this discord server:

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.gg

If you don't know it yet I urge you to join. Many really knowledgeable people are there and they might help you. I hope you recover. I've read years worth of comments from you on this server, haha.

Thanks man I’m gonna join over there. Hope you’re doing ok.

I just spit things out here between 2017 and 2019 as this is all we can read here lol. But I got really well for awhile. Things happened. Stupid shit.

Would’ve been nice to see some of my 2020 posts. I had a really solid recovery for awhile… Gbold (Helen ) spit it at me. “You need fucking chromium” was what he said. And boom… I needed more than chromium but it was #1.

That was my first recovery that was built around “redox before detox.” The body had to be manipulated back to normality through a few nutrients and I did it.

Did the same to a decent degree now twice since. Where I come back to relative decency. It just takes like 2-3 months of doing the right things for the particular illness.

The last 6-7 months been rapidly losing my life. This might take 6 months a year to be on feet again. I realize I gotta just go for it. I’m learning by day.

If you don’t mind sharing your history then go for it.

 

[zancek0]

Thanks man I’m gonna join over there. Hope you’re doing ok.

I just spit things out here between 2017 and 2019 as this is all we can read here lol. But I got really well for awhile. Things happened. Stupid shit.

Would’ve been nice to see some of my 2020 posts. I had a really solid recovery for awhile… Gbold (Helen ) spit it at me. “You need fucking chromium” was what he said. And boom… I needed more than chromium but it was #1.

That was my first recovery that was built around “redox before detox.” The body had to be manipulated back to normality through a few nutrients and I did it.

Did the same to a decent degree now twice since. Where I come back to relative decency. It just takes like 2-3 months of doing the right things for the particular illness.

The last 6-7 months been rapidly losing my life. This might take 6 months a year to be on feet again. I realize I gotta just go for it. I’m learning by day.

If you don’t mind sharing your history then go for it.

Oh, great, I see you joined. There's a lot of information there - a labyrinth of it, actually, but I think you'll be familiar with many things. The overall model seems to dovetail in many places with what Helen was proposing. But it's more focused on the infection aspect and how it induces a cascade of downstream effects. Mineral balancing is very important but in place of HTMA they're using Oligoscan. Also OAT is a crucial test but I think you've also mentioned that here so you're familiar with it.


Fuck, my story... It starts with a mistake that I consider at this point to be the biggest mistake of my life. And it's a mistake I very much regret and could easily prevent if I only I spent a minute informing myself.
5 months ago I've crashed with aromasin (+ some other herbal AIs like tongkat ali and 5ar promoters such as tribulus and cistanche) - an aromatase inhibitor. I've used aromasin to decrease elevated E2 levels (on multiple blood tests) which I've blamed for my asexuality and ED back then. This was a huge problem for me because I've met the most perfect girl - I've felt such a huge pressure to satisfy her but could not, and got increasingly frustrated (and afraid that I'm gonna lose her) so after trying many supplements that ultimately proved to be useless I went straight to pharma grade AI. It worked at first but I went overboard, and here I am now. Ruined myself in a matter of days, lol. Dealing with 0 libido, bad EQ, low motivation, dry mouth, creaking joints, gut/digestion issues, muscle twitching, anxiety and depression (never had those before to such an extent). Suprisingly, my cognition still seems to be intact. Right now, I regret that I did not try to accept that state of asexuality - because my life was otherwise great and I felt so comfortable in my body and so motivated to do stuff that I loved doing. Ah, well. This has changed. (Sorry for the gloomy attitude.)
I've started low dose TRT+HCG in attempt to recover faster about 1.5 months after the crash. Which I now deem to be another big mistake. I should go the natural route. I've also added injectable E2 just two weeks ago. Not much benefits as of yet. I've got some theories as to why this is but ... I'm considering going off TRT to try a more comprehensive approach. Exogenous hormones just aggravate existing mineral imbalances and so on ... In recent months I've learned that the issues with my libido and ED (also sleep issues and occasional fatigue) started after vaccine. I couldn't connect the dots back then. For example, elevated E2 levels were just an indicator of high inflammation, possibly induced by whatever system effects vaccine had. A gut infection, likely. So right now I'm considering doing a type of approach that Joshua's model proposes (the bornfree server) and that Helen proposed.
Hopefully I'll fully recover in a year or so. Well, quite frankly, I'm aiming at fixing all issues that started after vaccine as well. So I want libido, too (not to be greedy). Healthy as I can be. Because - fucking hell - my life took a massive hit with this. I cannot imagine living like this (considering I barely hit 25). I have not yet accepted that this could have happened to me. I suppose you know what I am talking about. The naivety of a rookie. The complexity of the problem scares me - so many possible factors involved which I cannot understand completely. But I'm learning and day by day I feel as though I have a better grasp of my condition (which is, again, a naive idea, but a source of hope nonetheless).


Sorry for the rant. You're dealing with much more than I am, and your warrior attitude inspires me. I'm glad to have joined this community. Maybe it flourishes again some day.

 

[Nighteyes]

on ... In recent months I've learned that the issues with my libido and ED (also sleep issues and occasional fatigue) started after vaccine. I couldn't connect the dots back then. For example, elevated E2 levels were just an indicator of high inflammation, possibly induced by whatever system effects vaccine had. A gut infection, likely. So right now I'm considering doing a type of approach that Joshua's model proposes (the bornfree server) and that Helen proposed.

Wow, I crashed exactly the same after a hepatitis vaccine some years back. Absolutely tanked my glutathione and messed with the nervous system. The aluminum probably messed everyting up. Have been dealing with gut problems as well because of This, and just wrote to Bruschii a couple of hours ago how a heavy Meat diet has fixed most of my problems. Stomach acid absolutely disappeard for a while. Will look into the approach you mention. Pretty sure bringing back some of the body’s own defence mechanisms is the Way forward through SOD’s and glutathione and aminos

 

[bruschi11]

Oh, great, I see you joined. There's a lot of information there - a labyrinth of it, actually, but I think you'll be familiar with many things. The overall model seems to dovetail in many places with what Helen was proposing. But it's more focused on the infection aspect and how it induces a cascade of downstream effects. Mineral balancing is very important but in place of HTMA they're using Oligoscan. Also OAT is a crucial test but I think you've also mentioned that here so you're familiar with it.


Fuck, my story... It starts with a mistake that I consider at this point to be the biggest mistake of my life. And it's a mistake I very much regret and could easily prevent if I only I spent a minute informing myself.
5 months ago I've crashed with aromasin (+ some other herbal AIs like tongkat ali and 5ar promoters such as tribulus and cistanche) - an aromatase inhibitor. I've used aromasin to decrease elevated E2 levels (on multiple blood tests) which I've blamed for my asexuality and ED back then. This was a huge problem for me because I've met the most perfect girl - I've felt such a huge pressure to satisfy her but could not, and got increasingly frustrated (and afraid that I'm gonna lose her) so after trying many supplements that ultimately proved to be useless I went straight to pharma grade AI. It worked at first but I went overboard, and here I am now. Ruined myself in a matter of days, lol. Dealing with 0 libido, bad EQ, low motivation, dry mouth, creaking joints, gut/digestion issues, muscle twitching, anxiety and depression (never had those before to such an extent). Suprisingly, my cognition still seems to be intact. Right now, I regret that I did not try to accept that state of asexuality - because my life was otherwise great and I felt so comfortable in my body and so motivated to do stuff that I loved doing. Ah, well. This has changed. (Sorry for the gloomy attitude.)
I've started low dose TRT+HCG in attempt to recover faster about 1.5 months after the crash. Which I now deem to be another big mistake. I should go the natural route. I've also added injectable E2 just two weeks ago. Not much benefits as of yet. I've got some theories as to why this is but ... I'm considering going off TRT to try a more comprehensive approach. Exogenous hormones just aggravate existing mineral imbalances and so on ... In recent months I've learned that the issues with my libido and ED (also sleep issues and occasional fatigue) started after vaccine. I couldn't connect the dots back then. For example, elevated E2 levels were just an indicator of high inflammation, possibly induced by whatever system effects vaccine had. A gut infection, likely. So right now I'm considering doing a type of approach that Joshua's model proposes (the bornfree server) and that Helen proposed.
Hopefully I'll fully recover in a year or so. Well, quite frankly, I'm aiming at fixing all issues that started after vaccine as well. So I want libido, too (not to be greedy). Healthy as I can be. Because - fucking hell - my life took a massive hit with this. I cannot imagine living like this (considering I barely hit 25). I have not yet accepted that this could have happened to me. I suppose you know what I am talking about. The naivety of a rookie. The complexity of the problem scares me - so many possible factors involved which I cannot understand completely. But I'm learning and day by day I feel as though I have a better grasp of my condition (which is, again, a naive idea, but a source of hope nonetheless).


Sorry for the rant. You're dealing with much more than I am, and your warrior attitude inspires me. I'm glad to have joined this community. Maybe it flourishes again some day.

I think you’re gonna be ok. Have you started testing? Like oats, htma.

Right now I’m honestly proposing to a lot of people and I stand by it… just find a doctor who will do standard blood panel next to plasma aminos.

Cuz it’s a pain in the ass looking at everything all the time. Use minerals and aminos as a base. I did this a year ago and had the right idea. I just let wrong people in convincing me “take Dhea and donate fucking blood”.

Minerals/aminos is gbold and hackstasis at its core. Gbold would get angry with tei ARL as he knew they should’ve been looking at more things. Mid 2021 I was going downhill I do a Nutreval have a little success with b2 moly vitamin e b12. I’m on my feet a bit. Then I do an htma with ARL guy and his program fucks me in 1 week!! It didn’t agree with my Nutreval at all!!!!

The aminos in my Nutreval say “do not do that program.” I just didn’t get it.

get tests done. I will help you. I wanna do that oligo scan or whatever I found a place near my home.

 

[zancek0]

I'm being a bit of a drama queen. I guess justifiably so considering all the horror stories of AI crashes I've read.
Thanks for your words of encouragement.

I'll do an OAT soon. And HTMA too. I'm just not sure how much TRT affects the markers so I'm holding off a bit.
These tests cost shitload of money and I'm in a bad spot financially. My brothers help though. The public health care system is shit in my country.

Yeah, man, I know the feeling... Being convinced by people that don't know the complete picture of the situation. This is why I ended up here. Now I'm very skeptical of everything. Which is a hurdle as well.

TEI approach sounds reasonable. Though in the server I've linked there some concerns regarding its reliability (I mean, reliability of HTMAs in general). Supposedly inflammation skews the results since certain minerals carrying proteins can get inhibited... Or something like that. But I suppose this is accounted for in the interpretation of results? Idk.

Cool, do the oligoscan. Make sure it's oligoscan, not oligoLAB. So-check is good as well.

Anyways, thanks for offering help. I'll send you the results once I get them but it might take a while. I actually got the OAT packet at home but haven't yet done it because I'm afraid that my TRT protocol might interfere.

 

[zancek0]

Wow, I crashed exactly the same after a hepatitis vaccine some years back. Absolutely tanked my glutathione and messed with the nervous system. The aluminum probably messed everyting up. Have been dealing with gut problems as well because of This, and just wrote to Bruschii a couple of hours ago how a heavy Meat diet has fixed most of my problems. Stomach acid absolutely disappeard for a while. Will look into the approach you mention. Pretty sure bringing back some of the body’s own defence mechanisms is the Way forward through SOD’s and glutathione and aminos

Yes, man, the vaccines can be quite horrifically unpredictable in their effects. And this is coming from someone that is reasonably pro-vax. It's just that one cannot ignore thousands of people that got seriously hurt by vaccines. In the discord server in my comment above there's a lot of folks who got absolutely wrecked by the covid vaccine.
I agree - it's about helping the body with appropriate supplements so that it can eventually fight the pathogens itself. The biggest question is which supplements are a must - and this is where these tests (htma, oat, oligoscan etc.) come in handy.