Chi PFS RECOVERY DIET

[wuf]

Many of you remember this guy's recovery.
It is one year I am struggling to understand if the diet he did could work or not.
I seriously feel I get stomach problem by eating so much veggies and meat. I am that kind of person who has Always been eating a lot of pasta, bread, sweets...I mean, I would eat everything without problems as I have Always been doing.
So I am trying to follow his diet, but I feel weak/sick on it. I was used to eat everything cause I need a lot of energy, I burn everything very fast... what should I run?
I mean the last goal obviously is to get cured, and this guy claimed that with that diet, even if very difficult to follow, he got fine.
So wich diet to follow in this mess????

Chi's Recovery

"Hello

I will follow this up with several sets of bloods from Bouloux’s lab in 2011 and then recent ones from 2016 shortly, then add the same post to PH. I will also add some photos from when I suffered and today.

PFS

PFS is essentially severe CFS with the root cause lying in the gut. For one reason or another finasteride disrupts the micro biotic balance in the gut and damages the gut lining. This results in malabsorption of nutrients and a prevalence of pathogens (not parasites). Pathogens are essentially disease causing bacteria (whereas parasites are organisms which can live off the body but be completely harmless).

The downstream impact of problems in the gut is on the whole endocrine. For example Serotonin, a neurotransmitter and hormone found almost predominantly in the gut, is completely suppressed. Adequate serotonin is required for deep sleep, calming anxiety and relieving depression. It also assists in memory, regulates appetite, cell growth, wound healing, sexual desire and mood. On the contrary low serotonin causes anxiety, fatigue, insomnia and a host of other awful symptoms. This is just one hormonal impact of a dysfunctional gut, but there are others.

Why us?

The reason only a sub-set of finasteride users get affected is because this sub-set of people have a weaker than optimal gut, diet and immune system before the occurrence. Note it is also possible to feel completely normal, yet have a weaker than optimal gut and immune system before the finasteride related issues, at least if that is the way you have felt your entire life or the process of decline was so gradual as to be undiscernible.

Our weaker than optimal gut and immune systems was susceptible to decline and deteriorating health conditions anyway, however that doesn’t mean we would have suffered discernible or deteriorating health in our lifetime. It took the introduction of a potent chemical to completely throw a delicate balance out of whack – for many the crunch point was cessation of the drug – which in itself would have constituted a change in chemical balance. Others suffer at different times dependent on lifestyle, diet and existing health factors.

My symptom List (no particular order)

Shrunken balls
Insomnia / poor unrefreshing sleep
Anhedonia
Low or no libido
Poor or no erections
Penis curvature to left
Muscle wasting (particularly back of shoulders, upper/lower arms, wrists and fingers)
Mild gynecomastia
Pain/flare ups in gyno lumps
Cuticle recession
Low tolerance to stress
Long refractory period
Low tolerance to light
Poor memory
Poor focus
Hair thinning (particularly pubic and lower legs)
Slow wound healing
Skin ageing (wrinkles forming under eyes)
Sunken eyes
Blurring vision / focus
Bloodshot eyes
General weakness
Facial changes, more feminine at times
Increased susceptibility to colds and sneezing
Lowered body temperature

Today

Today I do not suffer from any of these symptoms and in fact I am healthier than I ever have been. The only thing I have is some lines under eyes, but then I am nearly 30 now (I became ill at 24) and I don’t deem mine to be any worse than friends my age, in fact better because I don't really drink alcohol.

Recovery

Nutritionist & Tests

Gillian Hamer - London
Comprehensive Parasitology (checks Pathogens)

Supplements

Bionutri Ecobalance (inner 2 at breakfast, outer 2 at lunch)
Bionutri Tyro-plus
Bionutri Tara-cyn
Biocare Liquid Vitamin C
Biocare Liquid Trace Minerals
Biocare Liquid Multivitamin
Spatone Iron sachet
Ionic Zinc
Viridian Digestive Aid
VSL3 probiotic or Primal Nutrition Probiotics (spore forming)
Lugol’s Iodine (occasionally)

Herbal Tinctures

Swedish Bitters
Wormwood
Clove
Andrographis

Diet

Breakfast = Steamed Vegetables (preferably fresh/home-grown/cruciferous)
Lunch = Salad + Meat/Fish
Dinner = Meat/Fish + vegetables
Intermittent fasting 1 day p.w.
Cook with coconut oil if required
Buy high quality pasture/grass-fed and wild fish only
No fruit (only small handful of berries every few days)
No nuts
No nightshade fruits and vegetables (e.g. tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, aubergine)
No sauces
No oils – high quality extra virgin olive oil OK occasionally on salads, but don’t overdo
No dairy
No carbohydrate foods (e.g. pasta, rice, potato, bread)
No sugar
No alcohol
Only drink spring water
Herbal Teas: Pau D'Arco, Nettle Leaf
Treat: Avocado, Kale, Lemon and Spring Water smoothie
Treat: Hot Water, Lemon, Celtic Sea Salt

Exercise

Run 5k x 3 per week
Hills sprints x 1 per week
Gym x 1-3 times per week, big movements only (e.g. squats, chest press, overhead press, dips, pull ups, deadlifts, clean, snatch)
Yoga daily
Some meditation

Other lifestyle

Use perfume and paraben free body and hair wash
Use fluoride free toothpaste
Do not use deodorant or spray chemicals on body
Wake up between 5:30-6am every day - boosts cortisol/adrenal function
Attach a shower filter to remove chlorine
Take freezing cold showers only, morning and night (easier after exercise)
Do not lie down during the day to rest/sleep
Aim to be asleep by 10:30
Do not use electronic devices after 8pm (including TV, mobile, laptop)
Grow your own organic vegetables – to maximise nutrition and remove risk of chemicals
Spend time outside in the natural light
Walk in forests and near rivers
Go swimming in lakes
Read books about health and nutrition
Remain positive
Laugh
Don’t give up
Try to see friends as much as possible
Remove stressors
Do not visit the internet researching your condition
Avoid mirrors
Cut out people that cause you stress

Final note

I just want to add that all this stuff wasn’t some wild punt in the dark and wasn’t introduced overnight. It was a 3.5year process of research, listening to my body and learning. However, I firmly believe that full recovery can happen to anyone, irrespective of the severity of symptoms and time suffered, within a few months (possibly weeks) if you can get the balance of things mentioned right. To add weight to this, 6 months before full recovery I was still having massive set-backs and terrible episodes of awfulness. However when you’ve cracked the code it doesn’t matter – everything is in your favour to recover.

Today, 5 years post crashing I feel brilliant. I can eat carbs and sugar as and when I want, but I try to limit it. I (nobody) feels good eating these shit foods. I ate plenty of cake this Christmas though and that feels good, just it’s not something I want to make a habit of knowing how bad this stuff is. It’s difficult though in our modern society – sugar and carb is prevalent – which is a great threat to health and longevity. Today I try to live a paleo lifestyle, which is in essence what the above recovery list is but with additional things thrown in. It is not so complicated, but you need to believe and stick to it. And by the way the Bionutri supplements are absolutely critical to this – I recall when I ran out on several occasions, my world started to implode again.

I really hope this helps.

Cheers
Chi"

 

[Canari]

I think he is right except that some minerals he took could work for some and not others, according to your own balance. The cold shower might be too much at the beginning for some. You can have them if you see you get warm after easily. You should walk after such shower!
He is right about all what he says that is in line with what I learned about the nervous system, thus my positivity about his way of healing.

I seriously feel I get stomach problem by eating so much veggies and meat.

When I turned to raw, this disappeared. Or very low heat cooked, below boiling point.

Did you look at the videos about all animal diet I posted? It took him 1 month to get used to it. He says to do it 1 month in order to check if this is for you. For me, I feel I have to keep veggies juices and raw herbs. A low carb diet works when you have gut issues with bugs feeding on your food, and when you have roller coaster sugar. For me it results in night swaets, and now I know it is not about pre-menaupause, this guy also had night sweat before he changed his diet. He went from vegetarian, maybe vegan sometime I am not sure, to low meat, to full meat. In his case it was crohn or UC, as he has not been diagnosed.

Why us?

Our weaker than optimal gut and immune systems was susceptible to decline and deteriorating health conditions anyway, however that doesn’t mean we would have suffered discernible or deteriorating health in our lifetime. It took the introduction of a potent chemical to completely throw a delicate balance out of whack

People having chemical or electric sensibility also got triggered by something, and it also results in a big inbalance. If you see it as a pendulum going out of control, it must slow down a progressive way, or else it goes jumping around wreaking more havock.

Gut and immune system depends on the autonomic nervous system, and working on the ANS has been proved to modify the gut bacterias and better the good ones! Almost nobody knows how to recognize a susceptible nervous system, as we just think we are like we are...

When I look at the life-style he proposes, yes it all goes toward balancing the nervous system. Laugh and see friends is a nice part of it! And nature....

 

[wuf]

to stick with

I think he is right except that some minerals he took could work for some and not others, according to your own balance. The cold shower might be too much at the beginning for some. You can have them if you see you get warm after easily. You should walk after such shower!
He is right about all what he says that is in line with what I learned about the nervous system, thus my positivity about his way of healing.


When I turned to raw, this disappeared. Or very low heat cooked, below boiling point.

Did you look at the videos about all animal diet I posted? It took him 1 month to get used to it. He says to do it 1 month in order to check if this is for you. For me, I feel I have to keep veggies juices and raw herbs. A low carb diet works when you have gut issues with bugs feeding on your food, and when you have roller coaster sugar. For me it results in night swaets, and now I know it is not about pre-menaupause, this guy also had night sweat before he changed his diet. He went from vegetarian, maybe vegan sometime I am not sure, to low meat, to full meat. In his case it was crohn or UC, as he has not been diagnosed.



People having chemical or electric sensibility also got triggered by something, and it also results in a big inbalance. If you see it as a pendulum going out of control, it must slow down a progressive way, or else it goes jumping around wreaking more havock.

Gut and immune system depends on the autonomic nervous system, and working on the ANS has been proved to modify the gut bacterias and better the good ones! Almost nobody knows how to recognize a susceptible nervous system, as we just think we are like we are...

When I look at the life-style he proposes, yes it all goes toward balancing the nervous system. Laugh and see friends is a nice part of it! And nature....

Thanks.
I can't eat raw since I have UC, it would kill me.
The issue is that I feel much much better eating everything, I mean carbo as well instead of beeing stucked on this diet which Leaves me with low energy, and I become suscettible to flu and virus.
Should anyway try to stick to it?

 

[Canari]

Ok, this guy in his videos used to faint in the bathroom, and he was loosing mucus and blood, so you see where he comes from....

He too cannot handle raw meet, not even eat organ, only meat, and low fat. So he adapted the diet to what he felt. He says in his last video that his minced meat steaks are cooked to death, to remove all the fat, and they are crunchy as cookies! He says that now he cannot even think about eating something else, and he is 1 year into the diet now. For him the problem were all plant food. He cannot have veggies with his meat. He used to be a home-baked bread eater, was growing his food...

If you eat carbs only, do you digest well? Do you know that for some people the problem is just to mix the proteins with carbs? Some people do mono food diets, only one food per meal. So they know what causes a problem when they try it.

Do you have sugar level issues?

 

[Canari]

I remember he said it was difficult at the beginning, because bugs in your guts are asking for their food and protest... But then they die and leave you alone.

Maybe you can try a meal with your favorite cooked meat and then carbs you like at another meal, and drop the veggies? To see what happens. Personnaly I cannot have veggies when I eat carbs, that makes me like a balloon, so I long thought it was the veggies, until I discovered it was the mix. For me, works carbs with looooooooooots of fat for example, and even better with home-made mayo, as the fat is emulsified. So pre-digested.

I give you various options so that you can test....

I am trying to remove carbs, as I was pre Peat diet, and of course it costs me now... I have a garden full of oranges!

 

[Admiral]

I think the supps such as the digestive aids, minerals and zinc are what helped him recover. More so than avoiding mirrors haha

 

[wuf]

Ok, this guy in his videos used to faint in the bathroom, and he was loosing mucus and blood, so you see where he comes from....

He too cannot handle raw meet, not even eat organ, only meat, and low fat. So he adapted the diet to what he felt. He says in his last video that his minced meat steaks are cooked to death, to remove all the fat, and they are crunchy as cookies! He says that now he cannot even think about eating something else, and he is 1 year into the diet now. For him the problem were all plant food. He cannot have veggies with his meat. He used to be a home-baked bread eater, was growing his food...

If you eat carbs only, do you digest well? Do you know that for some people the problem is just to mix the proteins with carbs? Some people do mono food diets, only one food per meal. So they know what causes a problem when they try it.

Do you have sugar level issues?

I do have UC, but I can eat what ever I feel generally.. I dont suffer that much of bloating. I just have UC and it hurts when it is active.
The main question is: other people who got improvements in PFS did they cut out carbos complitelly as well?

 

[Admiral]

I do have UC, but I can eat what ever I feel generally.. I dont suffer that much of bloating. I just have UC and it hurts when it is active.
The main question is: other people who got improvements in PFS did they cut out carbos complitelly as well?

Can’t imagine many. Many PFS’ers have poor adrenal and thyroid function. A low or no carb diet would backfire.

I know I can’t sleep if I eat low carb. Hence fasting is not for me.

 

[wuf]

Can’t imagine many. Many PFS’ers have poor adrenal and thyroid function. A low or no carb diet would backfire.

I know I can’t sleep if I eat low carb. Hence fasting is not for me.

thanks-
what do u mean if u eat low carb u cant sleep?...

 

[Admiral]

thanks-
what do u mean if u eat low carb u cant sleep?...

Insomnia. I need to eat properly, especially carbs or else I lay wide awake.

 

[wuf]

Insomnia. I need to eat properly, especially carbs or else I lay wide awake.

sorry, i do not understand then. do u tollerate carbo or u dont?
from what u are saying u do.

 

[Canari]

More so than avoiding mirrors haha

You need to be positive while you wait to be better, and no mirror helps you to not see what is bad.... So the idea is not so stupid!

Are you a fast oxidizer? Lowering carbs or fasting need 3 days for a change to happen. During the transition, sleep is more difficult.

Wuf, the idea of low carb or no carb is for people who have gut issues, this is for sure.

 

[Rid]

I am one of the people who does very well on low carbs and have very bad reactions to fluctuations of my blood sugar.

I seriously believe PFS, at least in some cases, are some form of insulin resistance. the symptoms and even the research behind what 5ar inhibs do would support this.

My symptoms have only started to reverse after long periods of keeping my blood sugar leveled and keeping everything else on track. there are tons of things that help, but nothing will work if my blood sugar levels aren't stable. mine haven't been stable for years even before pfs, but now after getting them under control (most days) I feel better than I did even before PFS. but I still have gnarly crashes when I stray from my routine and my world can be completely turned upside down. there's definitely a mental component here, but I'm fairly certain it's all related to insulin resistance.

it would 100% explain the lingering ED/libido issues that users like myself still have even after getting back to a normal homeostasis. as many of you know, diabetes causes neuropathy- dieing neural connections in the extremities. cold hands, feet and our big issue- our genitals. this can be permanent and is usually long lasting.

fortunately this atrophy can usually be reversed and I'm doing a lot right now from the literature available to fully get back the proper blood flow and neural health that I should have.

2 best things for getting control over insulin resistance? diet and exercise. the 2 biggest factors of chi's health, along with many others. supp's are important, but they will only work if everything else is in place.

edit: just something to add: insulin resistance messes with lots of hormones, especially testosterone and cortisol. It could easily explain why we get so fucked up hormonally, of course we don't know the exact details of why we go through the "crash" but as we now know, it's most likely related to cortisol and other imbalances.

 

[expendable]

@Rid one of the symptoms I've been noticing more and more lately is that I'm always thirsty, basically. But never quenched, and on top of that, when I go to the bathroom it's always very light colored (and very often!)

 

[joekool]

Hey @Rid

I’ve been investigating thyroid issues and want to point out two quotes:

One thing to note is that although hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism do not directly affect blood sugar levels, not treating thyroid disease can cause lots of issues in managing your blood sugars because the effects the symptoms have on your body and how your body metabolizes glucose and insulin.Jan 26, 2012
Info on Dealing with Diabetes and Thyroid Disease -

How does thyroid hormone affect insulin?
The maximum insulin-induced glucose oxidation (insulin responsiveness) was inhibited by 60% in hypothyroidism and enhanced by 180% in hyperthyroidism. ... It is suggested that thyroid hormones regulate the effect of insulin on adipose tissue, which occurs at the receptor and postreceptor levels of insulin action.

Similar to how you worded PFS has some relationship with blood sugar levels, I think it goes up one level to thyroid issues. It might be why fasting , iodine, T3 or other thyroid mimetic supplements have helped ppl.

I assume you’ve dug into insulin and blood sugar levels, etc... can you also investigate thyroid issues and see what commonalities you find?

Imagine something like this where, as you say, keeping your blood sugar levels constant or even help, which then relieves stress or other type of inflammation, keeping you feeling well. But you’ll find thyroid controls metabolism, no shock there, including blood flow to sex organs and , I’m probably wording this wrong ( part of why I’m asking for help) and adrenaline or cortisol response, which alters anxiety levels and destroys erectile functionality. Agree?

Let me know if you’re up for that investigation

 

[Rid]

Hey @Rid

I’ve been investigating thyroid issues and want to point out two quotes:

One thing to note is that although hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism do not directly affect blood sugar levels, not treating thyroid disease can cause lots of issues in managing your blood sugars because the effects the symptoms have on your body and how your body metabolizes glucose and insulin.Jan 26, 2012
Info on Dealing with Diabetes and Thyroid Disease -

How does thyroid hormone affect insulin?
The maximum insulin-induced glucose oxidation (insulin responsiveness) was inhibited by 60% in hypothyroidism and enhanced by 180% in hyperthyroidism. ... It is suggested that thyroid hormones regulate the effect of insulin on adipose tissue, which occurs at the receptor and postreceptor levels of insulin action.

Similar to how you worded PFS has some relationship with blood sugar levels, I think it goes up one level to thyroid issues. It might be why fasting , iodine, T3 or other thyroid mimetic supplements have helped ppl.

I assume you’ve dug into insulin and blood sugar levels, etc... can you also investigate thyroid issues and see what commonalities you find?

Imagine something like this where, as you say, keeping your blood sugar levels constant or even help, which then relieves stress or other type of inflammation, keeping you feeling well. But you’ll find thyroid controls metabolism, no shock there, including blood flow to sex organs and , I’m probably wording this wrong ( part of why I’m asking for help) and adrenaline or cortisol response, which alters anxiety levels and destroys erectile functionality. Agree?

Let me know if you’re up for that investigation

definitely think there's a component, especially considering that our HPA (thyroid plays a big part in regulation) axis is messed up after our initial fin crash, and it gets damaged every time we crash, which just prolongs our recovery. I know my symptoms, and many others, were pretty similar to an adrenal crisis. check out The Four Stages of Adrenal Fatigue
dr lam has a lot to say about adrenal function and it applies to many of us, it's all cortisol based. very closely connected with thyroid and overall endo function.

now high cortisol on it's on can cause blood sugar issues, along with a crazy amount of other hormonal issues when things aren't working right.

I think our issues are so wide spread that there are probably dozens of imbalances we have throughout our body that need to be corrected, the thyroid just being another part of the list.

I know personally, my cortisol/stress response was so fucked up that I didn't actually make any progress until I shut down virtually all of my daily stressors and tanked my cortisol with licorice root. That was the moment I started setting up my body for recovery. Months later, after staying on a very restorative lifestyle/diet, adding what amino's, minerals and other nutrients I needed, I am feeling normal. I think I am "lucky" in the fact that I had battled chronic fatigue symtoms for years before this PFS crash, so I was already taking decent care of my body, even though I felt like shit a lot. I believe that is why I crashed with so little (saw palmetto user.) I was just on the edge of a huge imbalance for years, whereas many people here may have felt relatively normal before their crash, and all at once things go to shit, without realizing they ever had an imbalance, even though I believe all of us were imbalanced to begin with, we just had AA's push us to our bodies breaking point. sorry for the ramble lol.

 

[joekool]

Ha you weren't rambling... this is what I want us to investigate. RU & licorice root are related to cortisol... I'm trying to see if the thyroid fixes a majority ...

I'm checking out that link now... more to follow

 

[noprop]

Can’t imagine many. Many PFS’ers have poor adrenal and thyroid function. A low or no carb diet would backfire.

I know I can’t sleep if I eat low carb. Hence fasting is not for me.

I fasted for about 36 to 40 hours, it was hell towards the 30h mark. Couldn't sleep at all. Then I ate some good carbs and guess what. I felt much better than before. Of course, it is possibly not working for everyone.

 

[MNK99]

It gets easier @noprop. Way easier I think, after 3-4 days.

 

[r4ndom]

his diet is a great way to lose all your hair