Mechanism Of Hair Loss Treatments Today (visuals)

[TubZy]

This is an extension of this thread: Experimental Hair Loss Options

For those who don't know exactly what some of these drugs do, I wanted to show some quick visuals.

Here are charts that show how RU58841 works along with other anti-androgens. The second chart shows how PGD2 inhibitors work, for example setipiprant (in trials now for MPB) in this scenario but also OC000459, aspirin, fish oil etc. The last chart shows how wounding (dermaneedling) can help with hair loss by releasing growth factors locally when used directly on the scalp.

 

[tallglass13]

Hey@TubZy , what are your thoughts about cortisol... It seems that cortisol excess cortisol deficiency when it comes to male pattern baldness... Stress, over masturbation or over ejaculation causes high prolactin and high cortisol... Over exercise causes high cortisol... It seems like bald guys have some stress and their adrenals are f*****, pattern baldness in males seems to be from cortisol insensitivity or excess or deficiency... Finasteride is a progesterone that deals with cortisol deficiency, spironolactone which is related to aldosterone and the mineralocorticoid..Danny Roddy just posted about trilostane, growing hair in dogs by blocking cortisol. ..guess I'm kind of rambling now but I think if we can figure out how to deal with the cortisol issue we can get some progress going

 

[hairloser]

@TubZy , what about cortisol... It seems that cortisol excess cortisol deficiency when it comes to male pattern baldness... Stress, over masturbation or over ejaculation causes high prolactin and high cortisol... Over exercise causes high cortisol... It seems like bald guys have some stress and their adrenals are f*****, pattern baldness in males seems to be from cortisol insensitivity or excess or deficiency... Finasteride is a progesterone that deals with cortisol deficiency, spironolactone which is related to aldosterone and the mineralocorticoid..Danny Roddy just posted about trilostane, growing hair in dogs by blocking cortisol. ..guess I'm kind of rambling now but I think if we can figure out how to deal with the cortisol issue we can get some progress going

Please don't quote Danny Roddy. He never had any mpb.

 

[tallglass13]

haha...yea I know Roddy never had MPB...but I didnt quote anything from him. I mentioned that he posted some pics of dogs regrowing a full coat due to cushing's syndrome using that drug.

 

[MNK99]

So they treat dogs for Cushing's disease and I can't get a repeat prescription for ru.
I bought it anyways, I just think that's ridiculous.

Edit: I'm happy for those dogs @tallglass13. I want my shiny coat/regrowth again and to be smooth everywhere else (except eyebrows, eyelashes, and facial hair I guess).

 

[tallglass13]

I like Ray Peat's view on MPB, it also jives with what Gbold said as well. that its a cortisol issue. Ray states thats due to a low metabolic rate, cholesterol goes more towards cortisol than it does preg, prog, test, the things that grow hair. @MNK99 haha yes I know right! they actually stopped using trilostane for human use , but you can buy it over the web for vet use. But the results seem remarkable. there are plenty of photos of balding dogs growing back a full thick coat by blocking the 3bHSD enzyme.

 

[TubZy]

Hey@TubZy , what are your thoughts about cortisol... It seems that cortisol excess cortisol deficiency when it comes to male pattern baldness... Stress, over masturbation or over ejaculation causes high prolactin and high cortisol... Over exercise causes high cortisol... It seems like bald guys have some stress and their adrenals are f*****, pattern baldness in males seems to be from cortisol insensitivity or excess or deficiency... Finasteride is a progesterone that deals with cortisol deficiency, spironolactone which is related to aldosterone and the mineralocorticoid..Danny Roddy just posted about trilostane, growing hair in dogs by blocking cortisol. ..guess I'm kind of rambling now but I think if we can figure out how to deal with the cortisol issue we can get some progress going

Yes, we talked about hair and cortisol insensitivity in this thread ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

Check out Gbol's original post of that thread, he talks about cortisol insensitivity in relation to hair with studies.

 

[TubZy]

Please don't quote Danny Roddy. He never had any mpb.

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of him either. I think he looks very weak and unhealthy looking (maybe from overdoing NDT dose or just genetic/lifestyle). He has a few good points every once and a while on some topics, but when he tries to reference himself as a source for his hair stuff, kind of a pointless IMO.

 

[jacknap]

I hope that a hair test when I have the money can show what the fuck RU58841 did to me. I've improved substantially from where I was last summer but the last 20-30% of recovery seems very stubborn for me and sometimes feels. I think I posted my new blood test but my LH went up by 4-5x and testosterone by 20% and that was in December. FEel slightly better now I reckon.

 

[TubZy]

I hope that a hair test when I have the money can show what the fuck RU58841 did to me. I've improved substantially from where I was last summer but the last 20-30% of recovery seems very stubborn for me and sometimes feels. I think I posted my new blood test but my LH went up by 4-5x and testosterone by 20% and that was in December. FEel slightly better now I reckon.

My assumption is that since you were blocking DHT from binding to the AR (since you used a high dose), progesterone took over and when you stopped RU58841, DHT never took back over of occupying the receptor so now your stuck with progesterone binding to the receptor instead of DHT.

If you look at the chart, RU58841 is just further downstream of where finasteride acts.

You ever try Ella or RU486? Would be interesting to see how you respond since they both block/lower progesterone.

 

[jacknap]

My assumption is that since you were blocking DHT from binding to the AR (since you used a high dose), progesterone took over and when you stopped RU58841, DHT never took back over of occupying the receptor so now your stuck with progesterone binding to the receptor instead of DHT.

If you look at the chart, RU58841 is just further downstream of where finasteride acts.

You ever try Ella or RU486? Would be interesting to see how you respond since they both block/lower progesterone.

yeah i remember that theory. I'm not sure I have like a numb spot in my head that sometimes pumps. I also was having convulsions so I'm still not fully sold that this is something I will ever fully recover from but i'm trying. I promised myself that I would adhere to cdnuts protocol at least for 2 years and I have seen substantial improvements from the initial crash.

i'm a bit scared to freestyle it with those experimental treatments. If I was PFS from fin I would be more likely to want to try it.
I have been seeing improvements from cdnuts protocol but sometimes I feel like I'm deluding myself and that my improvements have plateaued (might be in a bit of down swing right now)

I'm staying tuned though and if the hair test seems fruitful and gbold is confident in a move (he recommended me b2 so I gave it a try on raypeat forum and doesn't seem to risky for me then I'll add it in).

 

[IHateFin]

yeah i remember that theory. I'm not sure I have like a numb spot in my head that sometimes pumps. I also was having convulsions so I'm still not fully sold that this is something I will ever fully recover from but i'm trying. I promised myself that I would adhere to cdnuts protocol at least for 2 years and I have seen substantial improvements from the initial crash.

i'm a bit scared to freestyle it with those experimental treatments. If I was PFS from fin I would be more likely to want to try it.
I have been seeing improvements from cdnuts protocol but sometimes I feel like I'm deluding myself and that my improvements have plateaued (might be in a bit of down swing right now)

I'm staying tuned though and if the hair test seems fruitful and gbold is confident in a move (he recommended me b2 so I gave it a try on raypeat forum and doesn't seem to risky for me then I'll add it in).

what if what was actually in that bottle was liquid finasteride and not ru58841? i would get that bottle you got online tested. i once bought liquid t3 from a research chem place and it was clen and not actually t3. i have never felt so fucking weird and wired and anxious in my life. sleeping was impossible..
i know a guy on youtube who is a steroid user who uses topical ru58441 and has no sides and when he stops he gets bald af and he gets back on and hair grows back so i would check you didnt get some faulty snack oil in the form of liquid fin or dut.

 

[MNK99]

That's a good point @IHateFin It may be good to test it.
Though as far as I can tell from those hairlosstalk.com people - some of the ru58841 is tested like at Kane's shop and the other main shop (just a sister site of kane's).
Trusted RU58841 Supplier - Anagen Inc
Home - TheKaneShop

It could be real or fake... regardless I'd try ru486 and or ulipristal, but you're much further along in recovery when compared to me @jacknap. So I don't think you even need it. I didn't use anything at all (nothing like these meds at least), when I recovered from antidepressants. If you're like 90%+ and don't necessarily need it, I don't think it will hurt not taking it. Using it may not hurt either, bc you may be at a point of higher stability. I do feel that if this was back then, and I knew all that I know now, I would have tried it for post antidepressant stuff (bc of HTPA repair). Even if I wasn't as depressed -- I was certainly very messed up for some time.

 

[TubZy]

yeah i remember that theory. I'm not sure I have like a numb spot in my head that sometimes pumps. I also was having convulsions so I'm still not fully sold that this is something I will ever fully recover from but i'm trying. I promised myself that I would adhere to cdnuts protocol at least for 2 years and I have seen substantial improvements from the initial crash.

i'm a bit scared to freestyle it with those experimental treatments. If I was PFS from fin I would be more likely to want to try it.
I have been seeing improvements from cdnuts protocol but sometimes I feel like I'm deluding myself and that my improvements have plateaued (might be in a bit of down swing right now)

I'm staying tuned though and if the hair test seems fruitful and gbold is confident in a move (he recommended me b2 so I gave it a try on raypeat forum and doesn't seem to risky for me then I'll add it in).

Lol scared of "experimental treatments", you already crossed the line and were free-styling it already using an experimental hair loss drug in the first place that put you in this mess (i.e. RU58841) haha.

But yeah, hair test is a good route regardless which way you go though, would be interesting to see what is going on.

 

[jacknap]

what if what was actually in that bottle was liquid finasteride and not ru58841? i would get that bottle you got online tested. i once bought liquid t3 from a research chem place and it was clen and not actually t3. i have never felt so fucking weird and wired and anxious in my life. sleeping was impossible..
i know a guy on youtube who is a steroid user who uses topical ru58441 and has no sides and when he stops he gets bald af and he gets back on and hair grows back so i would check you didnt get some faulty snack oil in the form of liquid fin or dut.

I thought of that theory as well. I got my cousin to try testing it but he couldn't find a place and I was such a mess and it's really expensive to test.By now the RU58841 is probably degraded so i'm not sure if I test it now it could prove fruitful. I've had periods where I swing up to 90% but this week kinda shitty. Bit of depression/fatigue/ puffy face/ took a while to get aroused with a girl etc.

yah i know tubzy that was to my recollection the only experimental thing I've tried and everyone was raving about it and I'm still fucked up almost a year later from trying it once so I don't wanna make the same mistake again since when shit hits the fan you're kinda on your own. Where's GLL and Derek now lol.

I asked derek when i first crashed if the ru58841 at anagen might not be pure and he got really mad saying that no it's the best stuff. found it a bit odd that he would get that annoyed by the claim though. he claims to use it from there too tho and avoids fin

 

[jacknap]

yeah i got mine from anagen. people have tested there's from there?

 

[JonnyCraig]

I used anagen too.

When I used RU58841 I had constant dull headache and felt like SHIT the whole day, every day for the 3 months I used it.

I was so wanting to hold on to my hair that I just blocked that out.

 

[TubZy]

I thought of that theory as well. I got my cousin to try testing it but he couldn't find a place and I was such a mess and it's really expensive to test.By now the RU58841 is probably degraded so i'm not sure if I test it now it could prove fruitful. I've had periods where I swing up to 90% but this week kinda shitty. Bit of depression/fatigue/ puffy face/ took a while to get aroused with a girl etc.

yah i know tubzy that was to my recollection the only experimental thing I've tried and everyone was raving about it and I'm still fucked up almost a year later from trying it once so I don't wanna make the same mistake again since when shit hits the fan you're kinda on your own. Where's GLL and Derek now lol.

I asked derek when i first crashed if the ru58841 at anagen might not be pure and he got really mad saying that no it's the best stuff. found it a bit odd that he would get that annoyed by the claim though. he claims to use it from there too tho and avoids fin

Most of the people pushing it are just affiliates so you don't really know. Anagen can fix that issue by just posting 3rd party verification from a USA lab for each batch, but they don't do that. Instead they just list a generic CoA.

 

[jacknap]

Most of the people pushing it are just affiliates so you don't really know. Anagen can fix that issue by just posting 3rd party verification from a USA lab for each batch, but they don't do that. Instead they just list a generic CoA.

what's a generic CoA mean? U think there's a chance anagen was just liquid fin?

U think that ru58841 could cause organ damage to the brain? Wouldn't a cat scan pick that up though?

My hair is looking super thick cuz I'm not as lean as I was before + eating more. My theory is that I might have not had mpb but rather just protein wasting like gbold said so shit went straight to my brain.