CrazyPickles
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The funny thing about user GoldenW is that he stumbled on his recovery by accident. He had ED from accutane (age 16), and then began suffering from hair loss in his twenties. He started taking Finasteride (for hair loss) for 3 months, but found out about PFS so he stopped taking it.
Dimmer and idontknow1993 noticed a return of acne while on Finasteride, and Dimmer said his acne continued after as well. Dimmer also said he had a slight increase in libido while on fin. Only the one post from Dimmer unfortunately.
GoldenW and idontknow1993 said the positive effects waned after some time, however both say they're still much better than before taking it. GoldenW's later posts were a bit unclear with regards to his overall recovery. idontknow1993 still checks in to acne.org from time to time.
Dr. Pezzi is a bit of a narcissist which makes me leery. It almost seems like he's just out to sell a book to desperate people. However, this doesn't make him wrong...He could be a complete narcissist and also be completely right.
Dimmer and idontknow1993 noticed a return of acne while on Finasteride, and Dimmer said his acne continued after as well. Dimmer also said he had a slight increase in libido while on fin. Only the one post from Dimmer unfortunately.
GoldenW and idontknow1993 said the positive effects waned after some time, however both say they're still much better than before taking it. GoldenW's later posts were a bit unclear with regards to his overall recovery. idontknow1993 still checks in to acne.org from time to time.
Dr. Pezzi is a bit of a narcissist which makes me leery. It almost seems like he's just out to sell a book to desperate people. However, this doesn't make him wrong...He could be a complete narcissist and also be completely right.
CrazyPickles
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I think I read a while back that there were some that were taking Fin to actually treat acne. It's really strange how these drugs have different effects on people's (hormones?).
i think It would be really nice to see a hormone panel of one of us before, on Fin, then post Fin -assuming a recovery.
i think It would be really nice to see a hormone panel of one of us before, on Fin, then post Fin -assuming a recovery.
MNK99
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With the exception of some therapists, "Dr. Pezzi is a bit of a narcissist" rings true for most doctors (and lawyers, and other professions) that I've met (way too many).
Sometimes it's warranted. @CrazyPickles, I'm sure some A.A.S. users have done measurements pre and post-fin use. Hormone panels only show part of the picture. My estrogen is low, and my test is medium (probably was way higher before, but I can't tell for sure). Sensitivity to androgens and cortisol and progesterone may be more important (I think it's hard to test).
Also neurosteroids, and liver, and drug-metabolism, and a lot more play a role.
Sometimes it's warranted. @CrazyPickles, I'm sure some A.A.S. users have done measurements pre and post-fin use. Hormone panels only show part of the picture. My estrogen is low, and my test is medium (probably was way higher before, but I can't tell for sure). Sensitivity to androgens and cortisol and progesterone may be more important (I think it's hard to test).
Also neurosteroids, and liver, and drug-metabolism, and a lot more play a role.
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Its confusing why FIN would help if it does at all. If I'm honest, Dr Pezzi doesn't sound legit, I remember reading some of his stuff and it didn't sound very scientific or well informed.
I posted this on
TREATMENT - PAS recovery using Finasteride - Possible/High Risk Option
Please all you accutane guys, if you could join up. It would be great for the community. We need as many people are we can get in one place. Here is something I posed there:
"The only thing about prog receptors, is that PAS guys haven't gained much benefit from RU-486 so far.
I might be wrong here, but I just thought of another possibility. Is it possible that by FIN blocking 5AR2, it makes the body upregulate 5AR expression (which was downregulated) and brings back some libido/sex drive.
The only thing I can't figure out, is how blocking 5AR2 would upregulate 5AR1.
Or the use of FIN, significantly lowers blood DHT levels which makes the body upregulate 5AR expression. or Neither of these."
I posted this on
TREATMENT - PAS recovery using Finasteride - Possible/High Risk Option
Please all you accutane guys, if you could join up. It would be great for the community. We need as many people are we can get in one place. Here is something I posed there:
"The only thing about prog receptors, is that PAS guys haven't gained much benefit from RU-486 so far.
I might be wrong here, but I just thought of another possibility. Is it possible that by FIN blocking 5AR2, it makes the body upregulate 5AR expression (which was downregulated) and brings back some libido/sex drive.
The only thing I can't figure out, is how blocking 5AR2 would upregulate 5AR1.
Or the use of FIN, significantly lowers blood DHT levels which makes the body upregulate 5AR expression. or Neither of these."
IHateFin
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What if the reason fin works is the whole 5alpha 5beta balance gbold suggested. Maybe PAS is the distruction of both 5beta and alpha while fin mainly kills 5alpha and only partially 5beta and sometimes not at all depending on the user.
If this is the case using fin actually would trigger the body to upregulate 5beta reductase which actually plays a huge role in androgen receptor sensativity to androgens. Since we are all different hitting that magic balance is different since too much fin will inhibit 5beta reductase too.
If this theory is true then maybe someone could try long low dose instead of tapering up and back down to assure that 5AR is reduced and 5beta is upregulated
Could you link me to the page where this is talked about? First I've heard of it but sounds interesting.
IHateFin
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FINASTERIDE: PFS MECHANISM (detailed)
Here is an interesting study about 5beta reductase:
Brain 5beta-reductase: a correlate of behavioral sensitivity to androgen
IHateFin
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To piggy back off my theory of pas and 5beta reductase;
Since 5beta reductase makes androgen receptors sensitive and receptive to androgens especially in the brain AND the progesterone receptor is extremely closely resembling of that of the androgen receptor and considering the two have feedback loops triggered from one another for checks and balances I believe that PAS is the insensitivity to both androgens and progestins.
All the prog and androgens in the world don't matter if you have little to no receptor activity to soak them up and activate DNA transcription.
Finasteride is a progestin in and of its self and even tho the side effect profile is similar to accutain they have vastly different mechanisms of action.
I theorize that the strong progestin that fin is which is not capable of being metabolizes into various progesterone metabolites strongly either agonizes or antagonizes the prog receptors possibly waking them up and triggering a feedback loop for androgens. Couple that with the decrease in 5alpha reductase which causes an upregulation of the 5 beta reductase enzyme which increases sensativity to androgens and you got a winning combo.
The key to wake up 5beta is low dose finasteride as too high will inhibit both 5alpha and 5beta reductase, but could be beneficial nonetheless by the strong agonist/ antagonist activity at the progesterone receptor its self.
This is my theory, but I was thinking about it in my car ride to work and I had to post it.
Since 5beta reductase makes androgen receptors sensitive and receptive to androgens especially in the brain AND the progesterone receptor is extremely closely resembling of that of the androgen receptor and considering the two have feedback loops triggered from one another for checks and balances I believe that PAS is the insensitivity to both androgens and progestins.
All the prog and androgens in the world don't matter if you have little to no receptor activity to soak them up and activate DNA transcription.
Finasteride is a progestin in and of its self and even tho the side effect profile is similar to accutain they have vastly different mechanisms of action.
I theorize that the strong progestin that fin is which is not capable of being metabolizes into various progesterone metabolites strongly either agonizes or antagonizes the prog receptors possibly waking them up and triggering a feedback loop for androgens. Couple that with the decrease in 5alpha reductase which causes an upregulation of the 5 beta reductase enzyme which increases sensativity to androgens and you got a winning combo.
The key to wake up 5beta is low dose finasteride as too high will inhibit both 5alpha and 5beta reductase, but could be beneficial nonetheless by the strong agonist/ antagonist activity at the progesterone receptor its self.
This is my theory, but I was thinking about it in my car ride to work and I had to post it.
I can't read/access this article and its in a dove
I can't find much info online that state 5 beta reductase makes androgen receptors more sensitive. Could you link me to any. This is an interesting theory though.I'm certainly considering FIN. It's a shame that this is the only drug that could be worth trying.
MNK99
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It's a devil's bargain @Flynn. Not necessarily so for Post-Accutane, but I mean for hair/prostate issues. Even transgender people get PFS.
Not trying to scare you. Probably ok.... but I don't know.
It's the same way I feel about a lot of meds for a lot of circumstances.
Like Lamotrigine, or Ru486... not scared to try ru486, but hard to get a hold of, a shame for sure.
Not trying to scare you. Probably ok.... but I don't know.
It's the same way I feel about a lot of meds for a lot of circumstances.
Like Lamotrigine, or Ru486... not scared to try ru486, but hard to get a hold of, a shame for sure.
IHateFin
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IHateFin
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i think Gbold explained it the best in the PFS thread i linked you. theres a good deal of talk on it and even tubzy details an anecdotal account of a man who took fin and hid side effects until he lowered the dose so that 5 beta was not inhibited and he was able to be on it for 6 years with no side effects.
unfortunately this is the most i could find on 5beta as it seems to have more correlation to bile synthesis, but seeing as tho GI tract issues are present and common in both PAS and PFS especially i think there is still something going on with lack of 5beta and thus insensative androgen receptors and most likely the same for progesterone tbh
tanedout
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This is after taking just one tablet?! Or have you started again?