Could this all be pelvic floor dysfunction?

[Jamie]

You are one the few fast oxidizers!?
Guts are very both ways... Before I stopped gluten this was insane... and now that I have suppressed all fruits and starches and sugars, well, my guts is so calm!


What is called mental is not from the head but ANS, 100% sure. What this guy did is not only muscle exercises, it is about fascias and diaphragms, and also q owrk though the ANS. There is a pelvic diaphragm as well. When I learned muscle relaxations, I do super slow movements for this, to an imobile person, we took into account an expiratory apnea we asked to do during the time we held the posture. Many people were just falling asleep from the parasympathetic relaxation!
If you try to just reinforce some muscles, it will not work as you saw.


Yes, I am a strrong believer that protocol plus somatic work will do better together!
And we should all be informed about how work our ANS, so that we help the processes we live every day.

Yes, I am some kind of a fast. So what do you eat now?

 

[Canari]

When i can avoid derailing... log here ! Balance path

 

[Moonman]

also where did you find this post? It's always interesting to hear guys talking about recovering from accutane sex problems either way.

I origonally posted this on propeciahelp I think. This kid was from the bodybuilding.com forums. I tried some of the exercises, read the book, and all that. Never made any progress on it but granted I was barely able to stick to the protocol.

 

[Flynn]

I origonally posted this on propeciahelp I think. This kid was from the bodybuilding.com forums. I tried some of the exercises, read the book, and all that. Never made any progress on it but granted I was barely able to stick to the protocol.

Yeah I'm not surprised you didn't have any progress. Are you also PAS?

 

[namaste]

@Willylong98 Dude I would love to believe this could work but I highly doubt it. There is strong reason to believe PAS involves a problem with the central nervous system i.e. the brain. I really can't see how tight muscles or peripheral issues etc. could have such a pronounced, persisting effect on the brain and neural pathways such as dopamine signalling. Of course though, anything and everything is worth a try. The more data we collect the better. So I would recommend you do this alongside an electrolyte protocol etc. and keep a diary/log. Keep us posted.

Just don't get your hopes up.

@Flynn @Willylong98
My hunch is that this method has very little to do with muscle tightness/tension and much more to do with overall nervous system regulation, as @Canari has alluded to in this thread. It's clear from the research that the nervous and endocrine systems play off of each other. Over years of participation on forums such as this one, I've noticed that most take the endocrine route for treatment (for good reason). That being said, I think the path of focusing strictly on the nervous system, at least to begin with, is equally as interesting.

In my case, I suffer from "complex" trauma that began long before I started on SSRI's. Supplements and/or hormones will likely do very little to regulate my whacked-out nervous system. So, I'm starting down a path of intense nervous system work (somatic exercises, relaxation, psychedelic-assisted therapy) to get that part of my house in order first. This is why I am especially intrigued by the initial post of this thread, along with a few posts that were made on the PSSD forum years ago alluding to body-centric cures. It's also interesting to note that the going theory on the Surviving Antidepressants forum is that many of these post-drug dysfunctions are related to nervous system dysfunction, either caused by or causing endocrine disruption.

 

[MNK99]

I've seen that forum @namaste. I think while I was coming off of Effexor (8-10 years ago, my memory's bad for certain things).
I didn't understand what they wanted me to do, but I quit everything cold turkey (It made me severely Manic and worse). Obviously, you're not supposed to do that.

What kind of psychedelics? Like shrooms? Or like Ayahuasca?
Do somatic exercises include yoga and stretching? Somatic as in "body" exercises? I saw that term here a couple of times now.

 

[namaste]

I've seen that forum @namaste. I think while I was coming off of Effexor (8-10 years ago, my memory's bad for certain things).
I didn't understand what they wanted me to do, but I quit everything cold turkey (It made me severely Manic and worse). Obviously, you're not supposed to do that.

What kind of psychedelics? Like shrooms? Or like Ayahuasca?
Do somatic exercises include yoga and stretching? Somatic as in "body" exercises? I saw that term here a couple of times now.

Hi @MNK99 - that forum was around in a previous iteration as well, I believe called Paxil Progress or something like that. Good people over there, although I can say without hesitation that this forum contains the most positive/productive group of posters I've ever seen.

I plan on making an in-depth post about trauma on here in the future but I'll answer your questions for now. I'll be starting ketamine-assisted therapy in a few weeks (I obtained the ketamine legally from a psych NP). This will consist of 6-12 three-hour sessions with a very knowledgeable trauma therapist whom I've been working with since last fall. After I complete those, I will probably do an all-day MDMA session with my brother in the wilderness, using the MAPS protocol. I'm also considering micro-dosing shrooms this summer.

Yoga and stretching can be part of a somatic routine. There is also things like Tai Chi, the Feldenkrais method, and somatic meditation. Some terms to read up on for therapy include Somatic Experiencing and Sensorimotor (a particular therapist might have training in one of these). Also look up Irene Lyon and her website.

I've been reading up on complex trauma for a year now and believe it is one of the most important, if not the most important, area of research for the psychology field right now. In fact, if you look up the famous ACE study from the 90's, the majority of health problems in adults (obesity, depression, immune disorders) were traced back to adverse experiences in childhood. The number one misconception is that people believe they don't have any trauma stored in their body. What they don't realize is that these things can start in the womb (look up trans-generational trauma), or right when you arrive in the world, or during childhood, or even during your day-to-day interactions because of how our society it set up. The smallest events, as long as they are sustained for some period of time, can create the perfect storm of conditions for your body to get thrown off kilter (per research in the book The Body Keeps the Score).

I am extremely passionate about this stuff because I think it ties a lot of things together for a lot of people. Almost like a grand unifying theory, if you will. I can understand if some are skeptical, though.

 

[namaste]

@aztec I noticed you've mentioned that you are a mental health professional. I'm curious what your thoughts are on what I've stated above, re: taking a nervous system approach to this, either before going down the supplement path or in conjunction with it. I've noticed over time that many people on forums such as this discuss previous trauma (single incident or complex) when asked about it. "Complex trauma" is a newer concept so if you're not very familiar with it no worries. I could definitely point you in the direction of some literature if that were the case.

 

[noprop]

Interesting thread.

Inflammation: gut inflammation as leaky gut or Morbus can lead also to nervous inflammation in the pelvic floor.
Medicine says those gut issues were AI disorders and not treatable. Not correct. You can cure them. But the root is another one:
Bacterias are causing those gut issues. There is a problem with the defensine status. Body is attacking gut when Morbus.
The nervus pudendus is in the pelvic floor area. You have to check this nerve.

Next inflammation possible: prostate. Or calcification of the prostate. Root? Bacterias shielded with ca! As long as you don't treat prostate, you don't reduce inflammation. Don't forget: over there are sensitive nerves, too.

Rising dht can cause nerve inflammation I read. I didn't know that. So, I guess this Hormon inflamed somehow certain nerve pathways, don't know which one. It is sufficient if the cns is not working properly to inhibit the pathway brain - nervus pudendus as the signal might not be transferred via cns. N.p.is a Part of this cns.

I think that before doing exercises or a certain protocol, you need gut / hair mineral / heavy metal / gluthathione / liver / nervus pudendus testing.
All pfs people have very low Gluth levels - your detox system is broken - what happens then? You get gut issues, inflammation due to intoxification with all possible pathogens - your body can't get them out. Your elevated pathogen overload can cause inflammation in nerves, too (heavy metals forex).

Maingoal is to cure the coexistent diseases coming with pfs. As long as your gut is not cured, you cannot...
absorb vits, minerals and so on...: no sense doing a mineral protocol.
produce even some peptides properly (like Bpc-157! Thing about that, it is produced in the gut)
produce some hormons

The liver: low gluthathione > liver is not working properly. Liver is also metabolizing all possible stuff, producing hormones and so on.

This whole thing is connected to each other. I asked on solvepfs whether the wonderpill would cure also my gut issues. You guess it: no answers at all.

My suggestion is:
Testing for gut, liver problems, prostate issues, pathogens, parasites! Identify those. Forex: Dysbiosis? Leaky gut? Gluthathione levels low?
Cure your gut issues and your liver problem asap!!! No protocol needed unless you haven't cured those issues.
Your detox system will work better then.
Now, you can go on a protocol like ru/prog/mineral/electrolyte and so on.

Unless you don't build up your detox system again by curing gut issues, prostate problems, erasing parasites (you got them on pfs for sure if not earlier), curing your liver, your body will take away some minerals, amino acids and so on to detox.
So, as I read from some poeople (Bruschi mentioned) they didn't get cured by doing protocols only. As soon as they cured their coexistent diseases, they got cured! by following some protocol.

I am repeating myself, I know. Sorry for that. But I haven't seen anybody here doing all needed tests and curing the diseases. Most people possibly don't even realize WHAT diseases they have.

Just to mention: people are doing detoxing forex by liverflushes and feeling very weak or worse. Of course they do. It is a sign there is something going on (like activating pathogens), but the body cannot handle it yet. (forex detoxing). So build up your detox system before doing detoxing.

Best, your noprop

 

[Canari]

@namaste I am very happy you considere this path, I cannot quote all the good true things you said as they were too many! I just want to make you remember a basic... "less is more and take your time"! Please do not do intense stuff, as some people have gone from "not feeling enough" to "feeling too much all the time"! Take time and rest between sessions of anything! It is the only way to build resilience and increase your self regulation!

This is important to make room in ourself and release the charge of past event, and yet we dismiss that they stay hidden in the body... But it is more important to show your nervous system the way of making this fluid movement like a tide! This has to be baby steps, or else you can disregulate more. Really, this is not so much as discharging past memories as learning to go into this movement of pendulation between different nervous normal states os sympathetic and parasympathetic....

Which leads me to answer this:

Bacterias are causing those gut issues.

Yes and no. You have the right cause to effect, the right egg to chick, but there is another hen before the one you have found! Bad bacterias can cause gut issues only if they can grow because of not having a nervous baseline enough into parasympathetic!!! Even EMF are now fouond to be a stress that is enough to slow the multiplication of those bacterias, and that is why electric sensitive people are given loads of probiotics to help them. Just an example, as many things can load our system. But it does so only if we have some imbalance from the start, and this can often come from what happened before we were 6 months old, and even after. Even a disregulated mother is damaging the proper regulation we need to develop as a fetus and a baby!

Then and only then, those bacterias become in their turn a stress, creating a loop. I advise to be going on both approaches, because ok, I am all about working on the ANS, so that supps work better, but I am also all in favor of doing all the possible stuff to reduce the stress so that we can regulate! This is a loop, and you are more efficient if you cut all 7 heads of the hydre at the same time!

Namaste, please get it slow and step by step... I work like this for myself, and I always feel when a new wave of activation is going up. I always have a few nice days after regulating myself, and then things come by themselves up again... I do not try to push anymore! IT ALL COMES BY ITSELF.

i am getting super better and now sleep 8 hours, which I could not before. I have also managed to reduce the nerve pain in a tooth, my gut is better too! I am excited of taking another hair test soon and see the difference without having used the protocole I was given!

 

[Canari]

PS I also know somebody who work personally at the same time with hair test and somatic experiencing, and nutricial balance did very little before starting the SE work...

 

[noprop]

@Flynn @Willylong98
My hunch is that this method has very little to do with muscle tightness/tension and much more to do with overall nervous system regulation, as @Canari has alluded to in this thread. It's clear from the research that the nervous and endocrine systems play off of each other. Over years of participation on forums such as this one, I've noticed that most take the endocrine route for treatment (for good reason). That being said, I think the path of focusing strictly on the nervous system, at least to begin with, is equally as interesting.

In my case, I suffer from "complex" trauma that began long before I started on SSRI's. Supplements and/or hormones will likely do very little to regulate my whacked-out nervous system. So, I'm starting down a path of intense nervous system work (somatic exercises, relaxation, psychedelic-assisted therapy) to get that part of my house in order first. This is why I am especially intrigued by the initial post of this thread, along with a few posts that were made on the PSSD forum years ago alluding to body-centric cures. It's also interesting to note that the going theory on the Surviving Antidepressants forum is that many of these post-drug dysfunctions are related to nervous system dysfunction, either caused by or causing endocrine disruption.

What about nerve testing? If you can get an MRN (MR Neurography) you see where nerve problems are (inflsmmation, compression...)
You could test from the head right down to the pelvic floor and test for pelvic floor dysfunction. This is all possible.

Dr.Amy Asko is mentioning the methylation pathways, inhibitors of those and possible treatment to heal nerves.

Best

 

[aztec]

@namaste yes, complex trauma is elaborate and I believe it can almost paralyze people in every life domain. PTSD and related conditions can feel paralyzing and ongoing. Those therapies you are going to begin sound wonderful and effective. I am not too familiar with those models but any trauma based therapy with an experienced clinician is important.

“The Body keeps the Score” is a powerful book and shares how intricate trauma is and how it impacts our central nervous system and lives. You guys should also check out “Why Zebras get Ulcers” by Robert S. A psychologist colleague and friend told me about it and it will open your eyes in a new way. It highlights a lot of what we experienced in a PFS state, especially in relation to stress.

Complex trauma is such a relevant issue for so many folks. We all have gone through challenges in life and some more intense than others. Our sympathetic nervous systems should not be activated full force unless we are in danger and need to escape and reach safety. However, many people live like this daily and suffer severe health issues over time. The goal is to activate the parasympathetic nervous system and reach homeostasis in the body through talk therapy, art therapy, equine therapy (I highly recommend), play therapy, and many other forms of therapy which address complex trauma and trauma in general. Yoga is excellent too.

 

[Canari]

The word of trauma makes think of events that are more important than what is enough to create a traumatic response.... and without discharging the sympathetic charge, the parasympathetic will not be on line properly, and you cannot force it, even with yoga or vipassana or mindfulness! And when there is a sympathetic charge, then the parasympathetic is acting at the same time, provoking all sort of freeze responses or dissociations.

@aztec and others, I highly recommend the free three videos from Irene Lyon that she is running right now and are a very good teaching even to professionals!

https://irenelyon.com/healing-trauma-events

Really worth it!

It explains very well why the ANS can be disregulated even when the danger is gone! And I can assure you it is disregulated in most of us...

 

[bruschi11]

Interesting thread.

Inflammation: gut inflammation as leaky gut or Morbus can lead also to nervous inflammation in the pelvic floor.
Medicine says those gut issues were AI disorders and not treatable. Not correct. You can cure them. But the root is another one:
Bacterias are causing those gut issues. There is a problem with the defensine status. Body is attacking gut when Morbus.
The nervus pudendus is in the pelvic floor area. You have to check this nerve.

Next inflammation possible: prostate. Or calcification of the prostate. Root? Bacterias shielded with ca! As long as you don't treat prostate, you don't reduce inflammation. Don't forget: over there are sensitive nerves, too.

Rising dht can cause nerve inflammation I read. I didn't know that. So, I guess this Hormon inflamed somehow certain nerve pathways, don't know which one. It is sufficient if the cns is not working properly to inhibit the pathway brain - nervus pudendus as the signal might not be transferred via cns. N.p.is a Part of this cns.

I think that before doing exercises or a certain protocol, you need gut / hair mineral / heavy metal / gluthathione / liver / nervus pudendus testing.
All pfs people have very low Gluth levels - your detox system is broken - what happens then? You get gut issues, inflammation due to intoxification with all possible pathogens - your body can't get them out. Your elevated pathogen overload can cause inflammation in nerves, too (heavy metals forex).

Maingoal is to cure the coexistent diseases coming with pfs. As long as your gut is not cured, you cannot...
absorb vits, minerals and so on...: no sense doing a mineral protocol.
produce even some peptides properly (like Bpc-157! Thing about that, it is produced in the gut)
produce some hormons

The liver: low gluthathione > liver is not working properly. Liver is also metabolizing all possible stuff, producing hormones and so on.

This whole thing is connected to each other. I asked on solvepfs whether the wonderpill would cure also my gut issues. You guess it: no answers at all.

My suggestion is:
Testing for gut, liver problems, prostate issues, pathogens, parasites! Identify those. Forex: Dysbiosis? Leaky gut? Gluthathione levels low?
Cure your gut issues and your liver problem asap!!! No protocol needed unless you haven't cured those issues.
Your detox system will work better then.
Now, you can go on a protocol like ru/prog/mineral/electrolyte and so on.

Unless you don't build up your detox system again by curing gut issues, prostate problems, erasing parasites (you got them on pfs for sure if not earlier), curing your liver, your body will take away some minerals, amino acids and so on to detox.
So, as I read from some poeople (Bruschi mentioned) they didn't get cured by doing protocols only. As soon as they cured their coexistent diseases, they got cured! by following some protocol.

I am repeating myself, I know. Sorry for that. But I haven't seen anybody here doing all needed tests and curing the diseases. Most people possibly don't even realize WHAT diseases they have.

Just to mention: people are doing detoxing forex by liverflushes and feeling very weak or worse. Of course they do. It is a sign there is something going on (like activating pathogens), but the body cannot handle it yet. (forex detoxing). So build up your detox system before doing detoxing.

Best, your noprop

Great post. While balancing is important, you can't get anywhere without fixing gut. I think things are really working for me compared to the average PFS'er joining this and going right into electrolytes due to the fact that I went all out on my gut between August and XMAS followed by the betaine/aminos protocols. In addition to fasting, liver flushes, probiotic enemas, coffee enemas, wormwood/clove, dig enzymes and so on.

 

[noprop]

Great post. While balancing is important, you can't get anywhere without fixing gut. I think things are really working for me compared to the average PFS'er joining this and going right into electrolytes due to the fact that I went all out on my gut between August and XMAS followed by the betaine/aminos protocols. In addition to fasting, liver flushes, probiotic enemas, coffee enemas, wormwood/clove, dig enzymes and so on.

Yeah, bruschi, you are doing a very good job! I am sure you will heal.
But I don't want to forget to mention: it would be interesting to do a comprehensive stool test once again to see if all parameters are fine like the bacterias status, calprotectin (very important), ph level of stool, pancreas amylase (I think) and so on.
Just to mention: a high ph level in the gut means you cannot intake probiotics, they won't survive.
Coffee enemas - very good as they can be done also more often. Best option is indeed colon hydro! after liver flushes. That is the gold standard. So, if someone can afford this, I would suggest this.

Bruschi, in your case I would do a stool test again. Espaecially when you think you are not making progress.
Have you done btw a parasite test? The normal parasite tests cannot show you if you have. I got them. Tested with frequencies
machine VEGAMED expert.
I consider erasing them with natural things, not drugs as you don't kill them all with that way.
Unfort, I know only a brilliant parasite guy from Germany (Alex Green on ytube). What he is offering, is astonishing. He know all shit about it, he is the parasite pope... Just watch his clients videos, incredible what is coming out...

 

[r4ndom]

Thanks for the book mention, I purchased the book.

I think absolutely this is a part of the problem. With PFS, it feels like the body is constantly locked up. All the time. The gluts are constantly in a state of flexing. Even the stomach muscles, it feels like they are constantly flexed and won't relax. It makes the skull feel like it is constantly flexed also. It leads to grinding of the teeth at night.

Not sure if you guys know, but this guy wrote this book on a condition called "hard flaccid". It wheres the penis muscle feels like it is in a constant state of being flexed, as if you have a mini erection. Think of people who had the penis turtling back into the body, or the penis never fully relaxes. He believes the condition is a result of normal stress in your life, and then this said stress led to the condition. It's similar to people who have back pain, and they do fully body relaxation and then the pain goes away. What's interesting about this book, is that the guy who wrote it took saw palmetto and had low libido as a result of it, along with this hard flaccid condition: Hard Flaccid Research & Resources

I bought a heating pad and put it on my stomach, I feel it helps the problem.

I definetely think finasteride caused the problem. I think finasteride did something where it led to the muscles being more sensitive or something, then when you get off the drug, your left in this state of high stress because your steroid hormones are so low. The progesterone is too high, the cortisol is high, the testosterone is low, its the stress in the muscles that is alwys there, it's always suppressing the normal functioning of the body.

I think it's why the no sugar diets seem to work for people, it seems like this muscle problem is brought about whenever your metabolism increases. Like sugar just makes your muscles activate and if it is all ready a problem, it makes the flexing intensify. But no sugar is a death sentence for your metabolism. It sucks. I think if you avoid having an orgasm for as long as possible, do these exercises, try the heating pad for the stomach, it could help the problem.

i don't know how to heal the muscles though from being in a stressed state. maybe it takes not using a computer also? ive read people feel worse after TV or usnig the internet all the time?

 

[Canari]

With PFS, it feels like the body is constantly locked up. All the time. The gluts are constantly in a state of flexing. Even the stomach muscles, it feels like they are constantly flexed and won't relax. It makes the skull feel like it is constantly flexed also. It leads to grinding of the teeth at night.

Yes, you describe a freeze response of the body.... The ANS has been disregulated, and thus cannot send the right orders to the body, especially to the endocrine system. Everything you can do to regulate the ANS will help, but a deeper job about this needs a lot more knowledge, so that we can pin point better this inner work. The ANS is the only "system" of the body that looks invisible though disseminated everywhere. It really is a system, such as digestive and respiratory etc, but the master of the other systems, though so little understood... And do not count on medicine to teach you about it or take it into account, as the solutions do not sell any med....

 

[r4ndom]

Yes, you describe a freeze response of the body.... The ANS has been disregulated, and thus cannot send the right orders to the body, especially to the endocrine system. Everything you can do to regulate the ANS will help, but a deeper job about this needs a lot more knowledge, so that we can pin point better this inner work. The ANS is the only "system" of the body that looks invisible though disseminated everywhere. It really is a system, such as digestive and respiratory etc, but the master of the other systems, though so little understood... And do not count on medicine to teach you about it or take it into account, as the solutions do not sell any med....

yeah dude exactly.. freeze response. just feels like pure fight or flight mode. like i can never just chill the fuck out. i think everything that stimulates need to be stopped to help it relax, even full body relaxation, massages, meditation, no orgasm, no pornographic videos or pics, no video games, just everything that stimulates you just needs to stop until normal hormone functioning returns again or something. or i mean like this guy, it sounded like he did these stretches and it helped, i bought the book i hope it can help along with those other things, i don't know what else to do besides this, but i do feel this side effect from the problem

 

[Canari]

What look like a side effect is actually the cause of the rest of the problems. The trigger could have been any prescription drug, it disregulated the ANS. Its name says that it is autonomic, so that is why intentional voluntary activities only help in an undirect way.

You are right that all that stimulates make you go up and stick to the roof like a magnet on iron. The general mecanism of recovery is in a way to learn to relax... but no. it is more like being able to relax and go up again and relax again. So, if you want to relax too much at a time, you can get the pendulum effect too strongly. I know only Somatic Experiencing which teaches your system to go back to the wave form by starting with very little amplitude of the pendulum. Even light and sounds are in a wave form, not to mention breathing and heart beats!

To understand fight, flight and freeze, it is necessary to understand that this is not fight and flight on one side, and freeze on the other one. Fight and flight is ALWAYS there UNDER any freeze! A freeze response is "worse" than F&F, but better in a way, because it is like the protection of an anestesia. The difficulty is to unlock it slowly, or else it is like a water dam braking... it causes a super fload. For example a panic attack is a sudden fload of a frozen fear that unfreezes for a moment. Anxiety is also a copping mecanism.

Believe me, check it with Irene Lyon's free videos, and take the yearly oportunity she gives with her extra 3 free videos, half an hour each, that will explain very well how our inner system work, and it will help you to self regulate. Those 3 videos are a prerequisite for her courses, but you can see them without registering for the course she gives.