Okay.... I think I’ll try small dose and start trib daily. I Haven’t been doing that. I didn’t know trib was similar to RU. Do you take anything for prolactin?
RU + Progesterone Cycle (PFS, PSSD)
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IHateFin
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well they are both anti progesterones with ru of course being the much stronger pharma version haha i think the ru also or the licorice made the trib amplified cuz i also have taken trib alone and the effects were good but not this good
i do not take anything for prolactin as the doses of ru i had taken for 2 weeks EOD did not give any prolactin sides. the prolactin sides are solely due to the antiandrogen effect of the drug. 2.5mg does not build up enough especially taken EOD to have any antiandrogenic affects.
ru specifically blocks androgens abilities to lower prolactin so thats where the build up comes from
IHateFin
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at the moment i finished a 2 week cycle of high dose trib and ru EOD at 2.5mg with licorice once every 5 days. i took 5 days off all of it and had such a blessing of a week. yesterday i took high dose trib and thursday was licorice root. i polan on taking hiogh dose trib again today and continuing ru tomorrow. so basically im going back "on cycle"
its still early on, but it seems a promising cycle
its still early on, but it seems a promising cycle
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IHateFin
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7 to 10 pills or more. 2 to 3 of medi herb trib and the rest are 800mg 95% saponins pills. sooooo around 7,135 mg today which is 7.125g about. so quite a bit i would say
Update:
Day 5 on Progesterone. Mood good. Morning wood good. ED 80% normal. Libido 60%. Overall feeling benefit. It's times like this when you think you can resolve this nightmare mystery. IHateFin got me thinking about progesterone dosing so I went back through Propeciahelp to look at Light and others experience. I was surprised to see that Light was actually dosing progesterone every other day and at 5mg. I thought he was just doing 14 day progesterone and 4 days off but I think that was just right at the beginning. And I think previously I was using way too much progesterone. I'm considering changing my dosing to every other day and add in a very small dose of RU every week, and adding Tribulus higher doses. I'd be interested in thoughts about this change.
Day 5 on Progesterone. Mood good. Morning wood good. ED 80% normal. Libido 60%. Overall feeling benefit. It's times like this when you think you can resolve this nightmare mystery. IHateFin got me thinking about progesterone dosing so I went back through Propeciahelp to look at Light and others experience. I was surprised to see that Light was actually dosing progesterone every other day and at 5mg. I thought he was just doing 14 day progesterone and 4 days off but I think that was just right at the beginning. And I think previously I was using way too much progesterone. I'm considering changing my dosing to every other day and add in a very small dose of RU every week, and adding Tribulus higher doses. I'd be interested in thoughts about this change.
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I like where you're heads at man. Yea I'd keep prog low. I was doing just 1mg daily at the end just to not disrupt circadian rhythm and try to keep things constant. But I remember "elb" who healed himself this way wrote he'd do 1mg some days 5 mg other on the 14 on 4 off program.
RuProgStack82
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How high of a dose licorice do you take?
Update: Day #7 on Progesterone. Since Monday I've been doing very small doses of Progesterone topically est 1-2mg. I started Trib 2 tabs a day since Monday recommended by IHateFin ( though I think at much higher doses). I've been feeling good. Normal cognition. Libido 60-70%. Not prefin but not terrible and if it could stay like this I would be okay. ED is at maybe 80% normal. So pretty much I I could stay like this, it would be a tremendous relief. I'm thinking about changing to progesterone topically 1-2mg every other day and continue Trib and consider adding very low dose RU, but no need to now. I'm happy with progress.
Update: Stopped Progesterone 1mg topically last Friday. Took 3 days off. Yesterday took Ru low dose est 5-10mg( hard to est as original pill is 200mg) and restarted topical progesterone today ( low dose 1-2mg). Over all I feel like I continue to make progress. Took 1/4 tab of Cab yesterday with RU to control prolactin. I am satisfied with the progress/results so far.
Couple more thoughts. I've been doing this regimen for 8 weeks and I think totally benefited. I've tried other things, but typically if it helps, it only lasts for couple days (except when I did the high dose clomid that lasted 3-4 weeks) I think that lower doses of progesterone are better than the higher doses that most people try. I am doing 7 day cycles with 3 days off instead of 14 days and 4 days off. If it's the cycling that helps, 7 days may be enough. The RU very low dose may be important to use at some frequency. I restarted progesterone today and I feel essentially normal regarding cognitive issues. I'd say sexual stuff is about 70%+ improved.
Update: This is day #5 back on topical progesterone 1-2mg topically. I notice the benefit after about 2-3 days of starting Progesterone. I plan to use for 7-10 days, haven't decided for sure with stop date. I continue to believe this is a very beneficial protocol. I've been thinking about this weird illness we all have. Some physiologic change occurs when stopping Propecia/avodart that's detrimental and you get stuck there. Something happens that messes up the natural feedback loop that would normalize the levels. There are many theories but IMO no one knows with certainty. So my current thoughts are these: Propecia acts like progesterone (progestin or whatever) and when you stop this for some reason the progesterone level in the CSF drops. The downstream products from progesterone are decreased. Maybe there is a positive and negative feed back loop that is interrupted and the problem is that this abnormal physiology for some reason is stuck in some sort of negative feed back preventing the system from normalizing. Low CSF progesterone levels have been documented in several reseach articles. Maybe boosting progesterone just a little is the key. Too much progesterone and you are inhibiting the normal balance. Doing nothing, and your progesterone level stays low. ( BTW measuring peripheral blood for progesterone will not accurately measure CSF levels and we all know the problem is in our brain. ) May be the bounce back benefit is actually the hormone transiently going threw the normal physiologic range/level and that helps but then it continues to drop and your benefit fads, to some extent. Maybe repeating this regularly, eventually this hypothetical normal level can stick and the neurohormonal levels get balanced, and you are normal again. I feel better using low dose progesterone than the higher dose, so I'd say higher dose progesterone is a mistake. I'm not sure about how the RU helps, but it does. I used est 10mg one day before starting Progesterone and I can appreciate the benefit so low doses of that may also be preferred. Maybe it's the re sensitizing of the receptor so the normal effects of progesterone are preserved. This is just a theory and I could be way off base. The point is with this current protocol I feel almost normal and it's a huge improvement compared to the past year and half. BTW, I'm not sure why more guys are not trying this. Possible stumbling blocks to this protocol are using too high of a dose of progesterone and not controlling prolactin.
I have tried RU 3 times now, without any effect. Did you guys measure your prog levels before taking RU. could you post them here? They are supposed to be high right?
My prog levels before my 3rd cycle were .69 ng/ml [0.28 - 1.22 ] . For the 3rd cycle I took verry little doses of RU ( ~ <10mg) so that I wouldnt need prog cream. But still nothing happened. I am PAS btw.
On a maybe different note. My FSH levels were 0.01 mIU/mL [1.40 - 18.10 ] in the same blood test. This is too far away from normal or the test value is wrong.
My prog levels before my 3rd cycle were .69 ng/ml [0.28 - 1.22 ] . For the 3rd cycle I took verry little doses of RU ( ~ <10mg) so that I wouldnt need prog cream. But still nothing happened. I am PAS btw.
On a maybe different note. My FSH levels were 0.01 mIU/mL [1.40 - 18.10 ] in the same blood test. This is too far away from normal or the test value is wrong.
Did you check your estrogen level?? High estrogen can suppress FSH.
The point of the protocal is to take progesterone. Can you tried taking a small dose of RU 10mg and then follow it with topical progesterone. Do you take anything to control the rise in Prolactin from the RU??
regarding checking progesterone levels: Neuroactive steroid levels were also altered in plasma of PFS patients, however these changes did not reflect exactly what occurs in CSF. Finally, finasteride did not only affect, as expected, the levels of 5alpha-reduced metabolites of progesterone and testosterone, but also the further metabolites and precursors suggesting that this drug has broad consequence on neuroactive steroid levels of PFS patients.
Yes it’s possible but technically difficult and I doubt this could be done/approved outside a research protocol, unfortunately.
Also, since we know the levels can be different between csf and simple blood tests (and I suspect the same is true for hair testing) the standard that a lot are following to determine the direction for treatment for electrolyte balancing / hormone therapy, may be misleading, IMO.