Ulcerative Colitis / IBD

HerrFisch

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,064
Supplements till next hairtest. But its more like e2d. And Histidine dosage depends.

200mg B1
400mg B2
200mg B3
300-500ug selenium methionine
50mg zinc
1mg chromium
50 mg manganese
450mcg molybdenum
20mg iron
1-4g Histidine
6g Potassiumchloride
200-400mg Magnesium

and I'm off UC medication. Slowly tapered down the last months.
edit: dropped methylbs bc I think without meds that will work without.
 
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HerrFisch

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1,064
Can someone tell me why this article says that IBD is from low ROS lol ?
Like from impaired NADPH oxidase?
Too little ROS ? doesn’t fit in my picture right now.

https://www.isanh.net/images/Journa...ill_-_Journal_of_ISANH_-_Paris_Redox_2016.pdf

VS

Excessive copper induces the production of reactive oxygen species, which is mediated by phospholipase D, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate oxidase and antioxidant systems.
Excessive copper induces the production of reactive oxygen species, which is mediated by phospholipase D, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phospha... - PubMed - NCBI
 
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HerrFisch

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Messages
1,064
Guys do you think its possible that copper jumps in for low NADPH oxidase, low h2o2? So the cycle starts from there?
Low NADPH oxidase, high cortisol leading to hypokalemia and low cortisol.

I really need help guys, Im too stoopid to understand this on my own ^^
 
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mattyb

Moderator
Messages
833
That paper is very specific to very early onsent IBD. Low NADPH makes sense for sure, but maybe not in the context of this paper. Main reason being, you can't fight off pathogens with low NADPH oxidase. It's sort of like the low HLA MHC Class II gene variants in MS - you can't fight off the pathological infection because antigen presentation is poor, so the body develops a pathological infection that gets labelled as an autoimmune problem (in MS, the culprit is EBV).

For IBD, several strains of pathological bacteria and fungi have been identified as primary drivers of disease process, and one problem is that they develop into very strong networks sustained by biofilm, and they become impermeable to antibiotic and antifungal treatments. NADPH oxidase is central in degrading these networks and fighting off the initial infections, and without it, they can proliferate and cause a sustained immune reaction. For very early onset, this makes a ton of sense since environmental conditions have much less of an impact because they take time to have an impact. For cases when people develop it later in life, it is probably a different issue - but it could potentially share some things in common.

I'm moving over to much more of a infectious disease and environmental focus for autoimmune diseases myself. I think the cycles the immune system gets into are too difficult without some serious stimulus from environmental toxins and the local infectious ecology. When paired with the right genetic conditions, some kind of environmental toxin, stress, and an opportunistic infection, you get what looks like an autoimmune process. I think fixing minerals can improve these conditions, because they simply allow the body to self-regulate infections a bit better. The high copper you show in hair could just be a result of your body fighting off a bacterial or fungal infection, since copper is an antimicrobial agent. As you put new minerals into your system, feed the healing system, and achieve balance, your copper comes down - not because you're chelating it, but because you're removing the demand for it. I think the body is much more of a reactionary and thinking system that can react to things with the sensitivity and speed that we don't even have the capacity to detect yet. But it reacts to things that are essential, often at the cost of other less important demands (ie, sacrificing reproduction for survival, or sacrificing digestion to fight off an infection).

Why is calcium high on a hair test? Probably because the body is probably trying to stimulate respiration, so it lets calcium flow from the bones and into mitochondria to stimulate respiration (and as a result, things like respiratory rate). It probably detects that metabolism is too low, so it wants to bring it up. The inverse would be true if respiration and energy production is too high. It sacrifices nervous system function to accomplish this.

Why is copper high? Probably to fight off an infection. It will sacrifice ceruloplasmin and tissue integrity to get rid of the infection, so it sends copper throughout the body to kill the pathogen.

Serum potassium increases throughout pregnancy, peaking in the third trimester. Why? Because it's building a body, and the demand for potassium increases significantly throughout gestation, peaking when the fetus is at it's largest. So the mother releases intracellular potassium to be integrated into the fetus. Healthy high socioeconomic status women perform this function even better than poor stressed counterparts. Those poor stressed women can't sacrifice the extra potassium because the body is prioritizing host health vs. fetal health. The well off women can spare the potassium for the fetus though.

I think when we think about these things in the context of "what's the body trying to do?" and "maybe it's not actually making a mistake, and it's doing what it thinks is best?" the answer to many health problems becomes much more clear.
 

HerrFisch

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Messages
1,064
For the start of the disease that makes sense.
But I dont think after like having it for some years, that there is still a pathogen left.
I rather think its somehow stuck and it just "looks" like the body is wanting to fight off an infection. my opinion though.

Probably the high copper was there to fight off an infection, dont doubt that.
Thats why I thought maybe because of no NADPH oxidase and no h2o2 to easily fight pathogens in the starting phase, maybe thats where the copper comes in for h2o2 production.
So each small problem which should normally be solved easily by small ROS production and /or cortisol, starts unbinding copper.
Who knows what happened later, hypokalemia from high cortisol demand, iron missing after its stuck for some time high copper and iron sequestering. For me all points to low Cortisol being the start to no way back.

I think when we think about these things in the context of "what's the body trying to do?" and "maybe it's not actually making a mistake, and it's doing what it thinks is best?" the answer to many health problems becomes much more clear.

Exactly.
But I think that the body is doing what is the only option in the current "body-chemistry". Even if its just fighting against something it couldnt clean up yet. Or being stuck after trying to fight something.
 

mattyb

Moderator
Messages
833
@HerrFisch

Viruses and bacteria are remarkably persistent and very small parts of the immune system not working correctly, either due to genetics or environment, can completely halt a normal pathogen suppressing response. That poor response to the pathogen simply accelerates aging in the select tissue, but the ultimate problem is the pathogen - not the body's response. The body's response can be damaging as well, but that damage is a by-product and not the primary driver.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f539/6e367eb140a0afce0e5f5cb5be56fe4212f6.pdf
In CD/UC/IBD you see pathogenic levels of bacteria, and much higher likelihood of biofilm formation. So the pathogenic bacteria are still causing problems even later on in the disease, not just early on. Select overgrowth of individual strains is much more common in these diseases.

Lots of the supplements you are on have direct antibacterial mechanisms - B1, B2, folate, B12, zinc, histidine, chromium, etc.

I think the body is honestly pretty great at balancing itself, the one exception being medication induced imbalances.
 

Nighteyes

Well-Known Member
Messages
95
That paper is very specific to very early onsent IBD. Low NADPH makes sense for sure, but maybe not in the context of this paper. Main reason being, you can't fight off pathogens with low NADPH oxidase. It's sort of like the low HLA MHC Class II gene variants in MS - you can't fight off the pathological infection because antigen presentation is poor, so the body develops a pathological infection that gets labelled as an autoimmune problem (in MS, the culprit is EBV).

For IBD, several strains of pathological bacteria and fungi have been identified as primary drivers of disease process, and one problem is that they develop into very strong networks sustained by biofilm, and they become impermeable to antibiotic and antifungal treatments. NADPH oxidase is central in degrading these networks and fighting off the initial infections, and without it, they can proliferate and cause a sustained immune reaction. For very early onset, this makes a ton of sense since environmental conditions have much less of an impact because they take time to have an impact. For cases when people develop it later in life, it is probably a different issue - but it could potentially share some things in common.

I'm moving over to much more of a infectious disease and environmental focus for autoimmune diseases myself. I think the cycles the immune system gets into are too difficult without some serious stimulus from environmental toxins and the local infectious ecology. When paired with the right genetic conditions, some kind of environmental toxin, stress, and an opportunistic infection, you get what looks like an autoimmune process. I think fixing minerals can improve these conditions, because they simply allow the body to self-regulate infections a bit better. The high copper you show in hair could just be a result of your body fighting off a bacterial or fungal infection, since copper is an antimicrobial agent. As you put new minerals into your system, feed the healing system, and achieve balance, your copper comes down - not because you're chelating it, but because you're removing the demand for it. I think the body is much more of a reactionary and thinking system that can react to things with the sensitivity and speed that we don't even have the capacity to detect yet. But it reacts to things that are essential, often at the cost of other less important demands (ie, sacrificing reproduction for survival, or sacrificing digestion to fight off an infection).

Why is calcium high on a hair test? Probably because the body is probably trying to stimulate respiration, so it lets calcium flow from the bones and into mitochondria to stimulate respiration (and as a result, things like

I think when we think about these things in the context of "what's the body trying to do?" and "maybe it's not actually making a mistake, and it's doing what it thinks is best?" the answer to many health problems becomes much more clear.

This is a very good point. And yes in a Way things become more clear or at least it gets easier to accept some things such as your own and other people’s Behaviour... how to provide the right support at the right time is still complex to figure out though. I keep thinking about Tyw’s mantra : “first do no harm”. I Think This is basically also what Helen is saying. Dont take hormones or supplements in the first place unless really sure. Harm can be so many different things
 

noprop

Well-Known Member
Messages
499
If you are looking for chelators (antioxidants), go for R-Ala. In Germany you get it.
For absorbtion I recommend bentonit and zeolith.
To erase metals, toxins and pathogens, go and buy ENTEROSGEL. Forbidden in the US. In Germany, you get it. Take opc for cell protection.
There is other stuff, but you dont get it very easy. Butrition is one of the most important things. Nachtkerzenöl very good. Best
 

HerrFisch

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Messages
1,064
Tbh I still dont understand or can find out how to define excess copper in UC.

This one Doc talked about copper bubbles in the gut.
Albumin which transports copper into the liver is low in UC. > meaning, copper is probably not high in the liver?
If there are problems with bile, which is 98% of copper elimination, you are stuck for eliminating liver-copper. But is this even a problem?

So if copper does not go into the liver, it goes into the colon, its not bound to bile or anything. -> ok but then shouldnt binders easily clear that ?

Basically the question is: why is colitis only local. And which steps to lower copper actually make sense. (Blood, tissue, bound, unbound)


Maybe even bile acid malabsorption has its role in uC ?
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
Tbh I still dont understand or can find out how to define excess copper in UC.

This one Doc talked about copper bubbles in the gut.
Albumin which transports copper into the liver is low in UC. > meaning, copper is probably not high in the liver?
If there are problems with bile, which is 98% of copper elimination, you are stuck for eliminating liver-copper. But is this even a problem?

So if copper does not go into the liver, it goes into the colon, its not bound to bile or anything. -> ok but then shouldnt binders easily clear that ?

Basically the question is: why is colitis only local. And which steps to lower copper actually make sense. (Blood, tissue, bound, unbound)


Maybe even bile acid malabsorption has its role in uC ?


Coliltis is NOT local. most people start getting blisters in the mouth first and then they get the same in the gut. Like 50% of people .
 
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HerrFisch

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,064
Coliltis is NOT local. most people start get blisters in the mouth first and then they get the same in the gut. Like 50% of people .

Yeah thats right. Ive heard people with UC having inflammation from mouth to stomach but not in the colon. Thats weird.
And Crohns is there as well.

So you think Crohns is not too different?

But why is it mostly in the colon? Easy disturbable homeostasis ?
 

HerrFisch

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,064
What I havent mentioned yet, 2/3 years ago, before all IBS started, I had really sensitive skin.
I could only wear 100% cotton shirts

I could spot 5 % elastane. And my skin would irritate and itch like hell.

Did someone experince/ heard something similar or can someone link it to something?
 
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HerrFisch

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Messages
1,064
Just something I found. Could be false assumptions or make sense in near future. Just to have it saved..

PLEASE READ THROUGH Hi all, firstly, in no way am I a medical professional. I do however have Ulcerative Pan-Colitis. After 2 years of medication and flare ups I found a a Hormone specialist who had been treating people with UC and Chron’s. What he explained to me was that there were a lot of misconceptions in the medical field regarding these diseases. Its impossible for me to explain in detail what he told me but the basics of it (more so UC as thats my condition) is that its caused by a gene mutation. This mutation happens around the conception stage and no diet, exercise or lifestyle choices could have made any difference. All us sufferers were destined to develop this disease before we were even born. I’m not offering advice, merely telling you what he told me to do. He told me to take a tablet called Folinic acid, its spelled correctly incase you think I meant Folic acid. Folinic acid essentially for lack of a better explanation cocoons this mutated gene, essentially shutting it off, this then stops the mucus production in your gastrointestinal tract from becoming over active, which is where the problems begin. Imagine your bowel lining having little pockets that cause waste to only flow in 1 direction, when these pockets get filled with the excess mucus they kind of get jammed open, allowing bad bacteria to enter and get stuck. This causes ulcers, irritation and all the other nasty side effects. Anyway, as I said, i’m not a MD or any way affiliated with Pharma companies but I’ve been on these tablets for 4 years with no symptoms of UC what so ever, I have regular BM’s with a regular consistency. Google folinic acid and read up on it for yourself!

+ Effect of folic acid supplementation on oxidative gastric mucosa damage
 
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HerrFisch

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Messages
1,064
Experiencing some really annoying skin rash right now. Started at hands and now everywhere I scratch, it itches.

It actually started last week but subsided after some b6. Now it’s back. And annoying as heck.

Haven’t started TEI supps yet.

If there would only be more information out there... it’s like all is copy pasta from wilson. Like 0 actual people on forums etc.
 

HerrFisch

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Messages
1,064
Hmm so rashes are pretty much gone with Carnosine, Zinc, Manganese, Iron.

I can only guess but I think its from the glandulars.

I actually think there is more copper in me which will have to go when the adrenals pick up.

Still waiting for TEI supplements. Start next week prbly.