Tanedout PA Log

[vicecaz]

@tanedout Have you ever tried licorice root?

Just a theory but I've been reading a study stating that licorice root supresses 5beta reductase which is what makes bile acids

When GA or glycyrrhizin (GL) were administered, 5 beta-reductase activity was significantly suppressed. On the contrary, 5 alpha-reductase was markedly increased though its meachnism remains to be clarified. In human beings 5 beta-reductase is quantitatively the major enzyme and plays an important role in the regulation of cortisol and aldosterone metabolism. Thus from the studies presented here, it can be presumed that the suppression of 5 beta-reductase activity by GA or GL administration may delay the clearance of corticosteroids and prolong the biological half-life of cortisol resulting in the synergism of these steroids and GA or GL.

If we suppress 5beta reductase by cycling licorice root, then there might be a snap back post cycle with an up regulation of 5beta reductase and then more bile acids production. Just a thought @Helen

 

[tanedout]

@vicecaz I've tried licorice root a few times actually. but I've never tried cycling on high doses. I wasn't aware it inhibited 5B reductase, but I'll definitely keep that in mind. I've actually just got some chopped root recently to make licorice root tea with, as part of a leaky gut protocol, so I might try cycling that at some point.

 

[tanedout]

Been meaning to post this up - my Genova gastrointestinal test output. Seems a bit odd how I have no detectable tryglycerides or cholesterol - the latter obviously being a component of bile acids. Anyone had similar?

 

[tanedout]

Having real issues with calcium at the moment. If I ingest even a small amount of calcium I get an elevated heart rate/bit of a pounding heart & it can last hours.

Took ages to figure out exactly what was causing it. I can eat fish, & accidentally eat a fragment of fish bone then it’ll be a nightmare trying to sleep as my hearts beating quickly so it’s impossible to relax & sleep.

Any suggestions?! I’ve been taking vitamin d & avoiding calcium (obviously), but it’s hard to avoid it completely as it’s found in most things.

Anything that should reduce calcium? I’ve read that taurine is a calcium channel blocker, so I’ve been taking a little bit.

I’d just do another hair test and take the sups, but the para pack ‘general’ sup they always seem to include contains calcium..

 

[vicecaz]

@tanedout

Not sure if taking vitamin D in this case is useful, as vitamin D increase calcium absorption

I would try magnesium and see your reaciton

 

[tanedout]

@tanedout

Not sure if taking vitamin D in this case is useful, as vitamin D increase calcium absorption

I would try magnesium and see your reaciton

Thanks, I think I'll try various different minerals and see what the effects are. I actually took some taurine earlier after posting that, and heart rate has settled right down and feels normal now.

I'm actually thinking that what I'd previously been assuming was liver/gallbladder issues previously might have been to with calcium all along, and the reason TUDCA had helped me (yet UDCA seemed fairly ineffective) is because TUDCA has a taurine module attached, and taurine acts as a calcium channel blocker (probably one of the reasons it's relaxing).

 

[tanedout]

Thought I'd do a quick update.

One of the main recent issues I've had has been chest pains, but these have almost completely gone since I've done the following;

- cut out calcium from diet (main issue). No dairy, almonds etc.
- stopped supplementing with vitamin D. Not sure this made that much difference, but I've felt fine since stopping so will hold off for now.
- doing an almost micro-dose electrolytes protocol. 100mg potassium chloride and for magnesium, phosphorous and copper I'm eating pumpkin seeds (these things always make me feel noticeably better). Great natural source of things like B6 and manganese too

Pumpkin seeds nutrition facts and health benefits

- Also doing 15mg of taurine sublingually, small amount of b-complex (this always noticeably improves mental clarity), and probiotic.
- DIet no gluten, sugar, dairy, alcohol, processed foods. Well over a year like this now.

I've also recently started a parasite cleanse which I'll continue for another few weeks. Supps with the usual blackwalnut, cloves etc.

Once that is complete I'm planning to cycle dopamine blocking herbs (I think dopamine is really my main issue with PAS). Probably starting with liquorice root which I'll use to make tea. Seems stronger than 500mg liquorice sups which I've used previously.

Got a hair test kit ready to send off a sample. Will probably wait until the start of next month, then it's 2 months off calcium. Be interesting to see the result of that.

 

[Niles]

Thought I'd do a quick update.

One of the main recent issues I've had has been chest pains, but these have almost completely gone since I've done the following;

- cut out calcium from diet (main issue). No dairy, almonds etc.
- stopped supplementing with vitamin D. Not sure this made that much difference, but I've felt fine since stopping so will hold off for now.
- doing an almost micro-dose electrolytes protocol. 100mg potassium chloride and for magnesium, phosphorous and copper I'm eating pumpkin seeds (these things always make me feel noticeably better). Great natural source of things like B6 and manganese too

Pumpkin seeds nutrition facts and health benefits

- Also doing 15mg of taurine sublingually, small amount of b-complex (this always noticeably improves mental clarity), and probiotic.
- DIet no gluten, sugar, dairy, alcohol, processed foods. Well over a year like this now.

I've also recently started a parasite cleanse which I'll continue for another few weeks. Supps with the usual blackwalnut, cloves etc.

Once that is complete I'm planning to cycle dopamine blocking herbs (I think dopamine is really my main issue with PAS). Probably starting with liquorice root which I'll use to make tea. Seems stronger than 500mg liquorice sups which I've used previously.

Got a hair test kit ready to send off a sample. Will probably wait until the start of next month, then it's 2 months off calcium. Be interesting to see the result of that.

Also important to note that pumpkin seeds are one of the more powerful natural 5-AR inhibitors, and given that 5-AR inhibitors have helped other PAS sufferers in the past, this could be a factor in why you feel better with them in your diet.

 

[vicecaz]

Basically doing this right now, with the herbs and lifestyle of cdnuts
Could explain why you think licorice would be blocking dopamine ?

As for Pumpkin seeds, before accutane they gave me a huge boost in libido
Now not so much but accutane sides are mainly responsible
in the diet suggestions of TEI Pumpkin seeds was recommended as a methionine rich foods

 

[tanedout]

Made the mistake of having some smoked bacon earlier - been feeling absolutely wired all day, like a full-on unable to relax overstimulated feeling. Totally forget that it's really high in histamine.

Taking 1000mg of vitamin c eventually seemed to sort things out, but reading some more high histamine is definitely a massive issue for me, and I'm even wondering it my issues with calcium are actually more down to dairy like yoghurt and milk being high histamine?

I think I've had issues with histamine for some time, possibly even before getting screwed by accutane. I used to get hay fever, and could resolve this by taking anti-histamines. Post accutane I've stopped getting hay fever, but in recent years (when I still drank alcohol) I would flush (go red) after drinking wine or beer. When things are bad my nose runs a lot when eating, apparently histamine intolerance.

Also high histamine can cause insomnia, and result in you waking early, which is exactly what I get (although sleep is better than it used to be, just always wake really early)

How to Treat Histamine Intolerance + Foods High in Histamine - Selfhacked

Read a few interesting things ;

• Vit B6 and C are co-factors for DAO enzyme that breaks down histamine
• Folic acid increases histamine (I take a B-complex which includes this, so I'm going to stop)
• Grape seed extract reduces histamine. I had a mini-recovery in the past taking that, so I'm going get back on it
• Choline is depleted by high histamine. Again I've done well with choline & inositol before, so might restart
• Methionine detoxes histamine. Possibly why that helps with sleep?

I've not been able to get my doctor to test histamine, but I'm pretty sure it would be high (along with my high cortisol, DHT, ferritin)

Should get my latest TEI results back in the next week or two, then I'll order the sups and get follow that, but in the meantime I'm going to focus on things that reduce histamine,

 

[tanedout]

This is interesting, seems copper is another important co-factor to the DAO enzyme.. (which is needed to break down histamine)

The DAO enzyme is dependent on vitamin B6, B12, iron, copper and vitamin C, so it makes sense to increase the intake of these compounds.
Copper and Vit C are crucial components of the DAO enzyme and B6 is a key cofactor that enables DAO to degrade histamine.

DAO Deficiency and Histamine: The Unlikely Connection | MTHFR Support Australia

Then further suggestions start making it sound like the electrolytes protocol...

• Magnesium is important in the histamine metabolism. A shortage increases the activity of histidine decarboxylase in some tissues. Histidine decarboxylase is the enzyme that makes histamine from histidine. While at the same time, a lack of magnesium intake leads to reduced DAO. The NIH recommends doses of up to 400 mg and Magnesium can be bought over the counter as 500 mg tablets.
• Copper is another cofactor of DAO and able to reduce histamine levels. It’s not often recommended to supplement.

Makes me wonder if the people who were doing the electrolytes protocol and did well adding in histidine are low-histamine people, and the ones who did well adding in copper are high histamine.

My last TEI (which I didn't follow) had a load of copper in the suggested sups, so I'm interested to see if the new one does too.