Tribulus & Tomato Juice Protocol

[tanedout]

Thought I'd get a thread started on this, then if anyone has already tried it, maybe they can chime in, but it would be good to have a few people on here give it a go, then share their experiences. Sounds like it could be worth a go.

It seems similar to the licorice tea protocol that someone on SwoleSource posted up a while ago. Thanks to @jinstewart for the info on this one! Details as follows;

Sent: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:01 pm
by moonman
How much tomato juice were you drinking daily and did you add other 5ar inhibitors with it?
by TyCr0Z
Just tomato juice. But I also only masturbated once a week during these cycles (wasnt hard to do cause I didnt have libido anyway). The idea was to raise testosterone/DHT during the week and then after 6 days of abstinence use a “high” dose of 5AR inhibitor (400ml tomato juice). Then on day 7 I always had libido and masturbated to reset my system. I always felt amazing on day 7 after orgasm, cause then testosterone finally drops and the receptors get more sensitive. Then taper down over the week (300ml, 200ml, etc.) until you are at 0ml. Do this for some weeks. This triggered an epigenetic change for me. I woke up in October and had libido every day suddenly.
So basically: raise testosterone/DHT over the week. Then inhibit DHT on day 6 to get strong libido on day 7 and masturbate/have sex to reset the system. Repeat.
Ok thank you man for your disponibility to explaine.
Just to be sure, cause I don’t want to hurt myself even more:

1. From monday to friday no sex and increasing Testo with tribulus (if needed).
2. On saturday after dinner, drink one shot of 400ml fresh tomato.
3. Sunday, masturbation and after that in the evening I will drink 300ml of fresh tomato (depends on me about the quantity)…after I have drunk the 300ml, that’s it?
4. Repeat the process again from point 1)
   Is this right?
   Once repeated the process, on the next Saturday (point 2) I will have again 400ml? and then point 3?
   I remember at your first post you said you need to have 300ml-200ml-100ml- 0ml…how and when do you do this process?
   Sorry man if I keep asking but it’s confusing and hard to understand details by texting.
   Thank you again so much for your kind replyes and help!

No problem man.

1. monday till saturday.
2. correct.
3. correct.
4. yes. You can also try 500 or 600ml on saturday and see if that makes your libido stronger. The higher your testosterone/DHT the more tomato juice you can use.

So I did it like this:
Monday: no tomato juice, 400mg tribulus, no sex
Tuesday: no tomato juice, 400mg tribulus, no sex
Wednesday: no tomato juice, 400mg tribulus, no sex
Thursday: no tomato juice, 400mg tribulus, no sex
Friday: no tomato juice, 400mg tribulus, no sex, heavy workout (raises DHT)
Saturday: 400ml tomato juice after dinner, 400mg tribulus, no sex
Sunday: 300ml tomato juice after dinner, 400mg tribulus, sex
I only needed 4 of these cycles, then I had libido every day suddenly.
On Saturday I also had more calories than normal for dinner (was my cheatday, rest of the week I was eating 100% clean).

.....................................

To make it short: Some of the silenced androgen receptors get “turned on again” if you go back on 5AR. Its a simple mechanism. BUT if you dont have enough DHT to begin with it wont work of course. You need high/excess DHT for this protocol. Like freeflow said, PFS isnt about how high your DHT is. I had off the charts high DHT last year when I was on a huge TRT dose and perfect estrogen. Yet I had ZERO libido! My DHT didnt work AT ALL. Now my DHT is pretty low compared to last summer (no TRT), but since my receptors arent silenced anymore (epigenetic change thanks to tomato juice cycles) I have good libido and erections.
Also, this probably only works for someone with VERY LOW or ZERO libido (like I had last year). Then this is pretty good to “shock” your system/receptors. Now I dont use much 5AR food anymore, only AFTER weightlifting when DHT is way higher than normal. Then 5AR food makes me feel better. I’m also in a calorie deficit since 6 weeks to get to 10-12% bodyfat, this lowers testosterone automatically, so I have to be very careful with 5AR food now. I actually had to increase my tribulus a bit cause I felt my androgens decrease.
I’m not hypersexual anymore, just “normal” now (in regards to libido/DHT, my dopamine is still not like before).

.....................................

So, just a question: why are you still here around?
I also recovered 80% and got back in the worst state ever now, but when I was recovered for different years I was enjoying life, not keeping staying around the forum.

Because my dopamine (mental symptoms) isnt cured. For example, often my orgasm feels very weak in my brain. I want to fix these issues, thats why I come back to this forum. Tomato juice cycles didnt cure this symptom. It only cured my DHT related symptoms.

1. Yes, no masturbation for 1 week. I also lifted heavy weights one day before tomato juice and used as much tribulus as I needed to feel ok every day.
2. I just bought cheap tomato juice from a shop. You should start with 400ml. Drink it all at once in the evening directly after dinner.
3. Yes, on day 7 you should have enough libido and masturbate. In the evening after dinner drink tomato juice again, but LESS, only 300ml (or 200ml, you need to try what feels best for you). If you would stop the tomato juice suddenly, then all the DHT comes back next day and you could feel worse.

.....................................

I was never 100% recovered. This protocol only cured my libido and erections. And its still cured over 1 year later. But still have other symptoms.

 

[Helen]

licorice raises cortisol , what do you mean similar. Cortisol downregulates AR mrna and AR protein levels and upregulates progesterone receptor

that is why we had full recoveries running cortisol


there are no silenced ARs

there is too much conversion of DHT into 3b -adiol which is an estrogen, which then increases SHBG and binds hormones

this is why hormone therapy does not work for people they take testosterone and it goes right into 3b-adiol


This is why if people with high DHT take fin, their 3b-adiol falls, and SHBG gets down and they have free testosterone, this is why we saw that JACk17, takes duta and experiences zero libido loss from lowering his DHT


Finasteride inhibits 3 beta HSD when you take it. and then when you come off, 3 beta hsd is strong. Thus DHT converts into 3b -adiol since it is 3 beta HSD enzyme


this is why on Wuf tests he has zero 3a-adiol


and this is why r andro works, since andro is Gaba modulator and it causes more DHT conversion into 3a-diol , lowering conversion to 3b-adiol

 

[Helen]

this explains why QUITDUT protocol worked for him , since thyroid decreases 3beta hsd, and thus when he took test with it. his testosterone converted into DHT which then did not convert to 3b diol and as he writes , it works right away if you add thyroid.


this is why DHEA plus letro worked for some people like JN which he is still taking, he is not cured, he found the stilt

this is why proviron works for some people but need to control estrogen


this is progesterone receptor problem , copper potassium problem, which after you quit fin cause too much 3 beta hsd.

or something wrong with the methylation of the thyroid hormone, or gaba regulation

 

[tanedout]

@Helen yeah I know Licorice also raises cortisol, but it’s also a DHT inhibitor.

Do you think the trib & tomato juice protocol is worth a go? I’m looking at what protocols actually have a track record of some success, & this looks to have, at least in terms of libido

 

[Helen]

@Helen yeah I know Licorice also raises cortisol, but it’s also a DHT inhibitor.

Do you think the trib & tomato juice protocol is worth a go? I’m looking at what protocols actually have a track record of some success, & this looks to have, at least in terms of libido

you can always try it. I pounded tomatos and tomato juice like crazy in PFS for one week of the month. as I wrote in my story


tomatos are full of potassium, they lower 3b-adiol

this is why magnesium ( which helps potassium ) also lowers SHBG

 

[jinstewart]

I always get scared of asking Helen to break things down! Jeez I can't even imagine having a brain like that. Thanks Helen.

@tanedout Shall we try it 'vanilla' (as TyCr0z did) or shall we slip a mangesium tablet in too? Spinach didn't cure me, let's see if tomatoes might! Back in my more desperate experimentation days, Saw Palmetto (one pill fortnightly) didn't do much to me. Licorice root however I crashed somewhat, stayed up all night in tears and wrote a suicide note, so I'll swerve that one.

(Bruschi if you read this I'm still getting TEI and pathogens tested just getting some vegetables down me in the interim.)

 

[tanedout]

I always get scared of asking Helen to break things down! Jeez I can't even imagine having a brain like that. Thanks Helen.

@tanedout Shall we try it 'vanilla' (as TyCr0z did) or shall we slip a mangesium tablet in too? Spinach didn't cure me, let's see if tomatoes might! Back in my more desperate experimentation days, Saw Palmetto (one pill fortnightly) didn't do much to me. Licorice root however I crashed somewhat, stayed up all night in tears and wrote a suicide note, so I'll swerve that one.

(Bruschi if you read this I'm still getting TEI and pathogens tested just getting some vegetables down me in the interim.)

Worth a go following the original protocol I reckon! At least to start with anyway. I'm already taking trib, so next Friday I'll lift some heavy weights, then go for the tomato juice on Sat & Sun and see how it goes..

 

[Helen]

Worth a go following the original protocol I reckon! At least to start with anyway. I'm already taking trib, so next Friday I'll lift some heavy weights, then go for the tomato juice on Sat & Sun and see how it goes..

I think this increases testosterone which tanks potassium , this upregulates progesterone receptor, this is why people feel bad on tribulus , same as on testosterone.

and then you give potassium. to replenish potassium( tomatos) . Progesterone is what retains potassium, so if it got stronger , then it retains potassium easier

So slowly your 3b diol conversion goes down, and 3a adiol conversion goes up. DHT levels stay the same, but the 3a-diol vs 3b-adiol ratio changes, which decreases SHBG



This is how progesterone worked for Jack17 and gave him recovery for months.

since it retained so much potassium inside of the cell, that 3b- adiol stayed inhibited for a while until potassium wend down again.


I assume lack of Sam-E allows potassium to fall may be. since adrenaline holds it inside of the cell. as a theory.


Also I think gaba receptor is involved, this could stop conversion of DHT into 3a- adiol, which is gaba agonist.


Gaba B receptor is what controls potassium channels. SO once again , totally progesterone potassium related.

 

[jinstewart]

Okay then, roll on Monday! I might try working out as I usually do/did - Mon, Tue, Thur, Fri. The rest I'll keep as per the protocol.

I've got VemoHerb tribulus for this. I'll keep my Medi-Herb super-premium tribulus for another time.

 

[jinstewart]

Also I think gaba receptor is involved, this could stop conversion of DHT into 3a- adiol, which is gaba agonist.


Gaba B receptor is what controls potassium channels. SO once again , totally progesterone potassium related.

Should I stop Amitriptyline for this would you say?

EDIT - I'll stop Ami for the duration. Hello to crappy sleep and PFS-brain. Oh well, excited for the 4-week boner-cure! I'm also just excited as I've found another vegetable-based protocol to do.

It's Monday, popped my 400mg Tribulus this morning. I'll be buying store-bought tomato juice for this as it's what TyCr0z used. The VemoHerb must be a shade weaker than the MediHerb stuff, because I am tolerating this fine so far.

 

[shivgeorge]

Thanks for sharing tanedout!

 

[tallglass13]

@tanedout , how do we know that licorice blocks DHT?

 

[MNK99]

regrew all my hair. just had to snort it

(I was kidding/ impulsive at the time/ didnt actually regrow all my hair). and certainly didn't snort licorice root. that's a waste of time.

 

[tanedout]

@tanedout , how do we know that licorice blocks DHT?

An Update on Plant Derived Anti-Androgens

To be honest it looks as though it actually lowers testosterone, rather than DHT or 5AR. And seeing as increasing testosterone has been shown to lower DHT, so it may actually increase DHT, but I'm just speculating

Decline of plasma 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels upon testosterone administration to elderly men with subnormal plasma testosterone and hi... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Helen]

@tanedout licorice increases cortisol, it lowers androgens levels and their receptors.

that is why we had full recovery on CORTISOL supplement from PFS. since cortisol downregulates AR mrna, and also AR protein levels

Androgen and glucocorticoid regulation of androgen receptor cDNA expression. - PubMed - NCBI

We had cytochrome fully recover from PFS , 2 times using cortisol supps

 

[Helen]

It might be that finasteride causes too much copper entrance into the cell for slow oxidizers.

and then after they quit finasteride.( which is progesterone) , then your own progesterone goes up to retain potassium

this increases 3 beta hsd.

3beta hsd is what increases conversion of DHT into 3b- adiol. A potent estrogen


this is why if people run cortisol, in this cases. Cortisol will lead to potassium losses, and and this will keep pushing copper out of the cell

then after you quit cortisol, copper is much lower in the cell. Potassium restores, and you need much less 3 beta hsd now , thus DHT converts more into 3a adiol.

 

[Helen]

Another possibility for slow oxidizer ( high DHT people )

is that finasteride crashed methylation cycle, which we saw in tests

and thus there is no SaME, no adrenaline action,


thus potassium is usually high in blood of slow oxidizers and sodium is low.

potassium is high since adrenaline is not pushing it back into the cell.

and thus insulin goes up, this raises NADPH.

this NADPH pushes 5AR making DHT high , but which converts into 3b - adiol mostly , since there is no potassium in the cell


Since GABA pushes potassium out of the cell. by pushing potassium out of the cell, GABA slows down the nervous system


this is why in slow oxidizers like WUf, on his tests we see ZERO 3a -adiol. DHT is not converting into 3a- adiol at all

Why? since 3a- adiol is potent GABA agonist. and will push potassium out of the cell.

 

[hairsuit]

@Helen what are your thoughts on the reverse? Fast oxidizers with lower DHT? A lot of this info seems geared towards those with high DHT.

 

[Nina]

Another possibility for slow oxidizer ( high DHT people )

is that finasteride crashed methylation cycle, which we saw in tests

and thus there is no SaME, no adrenaline action,


thus potassium is usually high in blood of slow oxidizers and sodium is low.

potassium is high since adrenaline is not pushing it back into the cell.

and thus insulin goes up, this raises NADPH.

this NADPH pushes 5AR making DHT high , but which converts into 3b - adiol mostly , since there is no potassium in the cell


Since GABA pushes potassium out of the cell. by pushing potassium out of the cell, GABA slows down the nervous system


this is why in slow oxidizers like WUf, on his tests we see ZERO 3a -adiol. DHT is not converting into 3a- adiol at all

Why? since 3a- adiol is potent GABA agonist. and will push potassium out of the cell.

Helen this is kind of unrelated but do you know why every anti hairloss shampoo contains caffeine? I just did some research on it and apparently it inhibits DHT by increasing cellular ATP (or so they claim)

 

[Helen]

Helen this is kind of unrelated but do you know why every anti hairloss shampoo contains caffeine? I just did some research on it and apparently it inhibits DHT by increasing cellular ATP (or so they claim)

yeah, adrenaline lowers insulin. and thus NADPH and DHT