FINASTERIDE SIGNIFICANTLY UPREGULATES ANDROGEN RECEPTOR in this study ( PROTOCOLS and discussions for PFS)

[Goose12]

Goose,

I posted these same questions in olaski69's thread after reading through it. I am posting it here as well just in case it is missed there seeing that it's an old thread.

If I am I following correctly myself, Goose, Walker and Olaski69 are all Saw P victims?

Goose is it correct that both you and Olaski69 both get worse from inhibiting Estrogen? (I ask because I get worse from inhibiting estrogen)

Olaski69 said he is 6 foot 4 ? I am pretty sure Walker is also 6 foot 4 if I am remembering correctly from Swole Source when he posted as Maxout? (I ask because I am 6 foot 4 so it's just an interesting pattern if I am correct on Olaski69's and Walker's hight)

Goose what is your hight if you don't mind me asking?

Goose, walkers and Olaski69 all have high iron from hair test. I will need to get a hair test done sooner than late. . I am curious about this

Does anyone know if Walker gets worse from inhibiting estrogen ?

I feel worse inhibiting estrogen. Vitamin e and Randro kills my labido but I snapback better. Interesting to note that Randro lowers cholesterol, which high cholesterol seems to be part of our problem.

I am the odd man out. I am 5'9" but really stocky. I am usually the strongest person in a room. Don't know if that makes a difference lol. I have a really long torso and a six foot wing span.

I also did really good on ru, but only got me so far at the time. I wonder how I would do on it now that I am in a much better spot.

 

[5 alpha]

I feel worse inhibiting estrogen. Vitamin e and Randro kills my labido but I snapback better. Interesting to note that Randro lowers cholesterol, which high cholesterol seems to be part of our problem.

I am the odd man out. I am 5'9" but really stocky. I am usually the strongest person in a room. Don't know if that makes a difference lol. I have a really long torso and a six foot wing span.

I also did really good on ru, but only got me so far at the time. I wonder how I would do on it now that I am in a much better spot.

Yes it matters you would kick my ass for certain haha hight does not do that much for us with that sort of thing. I’m only 205 and really not that strong anymore. I can still train but I need to take it easy with one herniated and two bulged disks in my lower back and I don’t want back surgery at my age.

I was wondering cause this body builder guy at the gym was telling me about his theory that some 6 foot 4 guys have a lanky build because they “did not get extra androgen receptors with their hight”. When this guy told me this I was thinking dam this Goes Into what we talk about here. So then of course my mind gets going and I’m thinking does that mean taller people could have overly sensitive up regulated receptors to begin with trying to compensate for “filling that extra space”. I don’t know it’s kinda of a dumb theory but when I noticed the hight pattern with this saw P group it crossed my mind.

I remember your initial RU success. We ran it at the same time when I almost got cured. It sounds like the TRL has worked out for you.

The estrogen is clearly a pattern in this Saw P group. I wonder if you guys would get PFS or get worse from dut or fin.

 

[5 alpha]

@5 alpha I think finasteride and dutasteride use NADPH's hydrogen to form complex with NADP and this way they inhibit 5AR. so for inhibition of 5AR NADPH is required. thus both drugs raise insulin while you are on the drug, since insulin is trying to make more NADPH. by putting more sugar in the cell.

Saw palmetto, just kills cholesterol binding. so to me it kills all enzymes where there is iron cysteine cluster. Like cortisol forming enzyme., 5 ar, pregnenolone forming enzyme. estrogen forming enzyme. the enzymes which RU blocks.

and since you are not using NADPH. then you get high iron high manganese on the hairtest of saw palmetto victims. and b1 is probably flushed out also. since body is trying to inhibit NADPH production, since probably those receptors for those hormones got overexpressed.

SO when you block those receptors of overexpressed hormones., my guess is that you start using that iron and manganese and b1 again, and not just flush it out. since the body wants to make NADPH again, and it needs iron cysteine cluster, and manganese and b1 to do that , to make those enzymes.

and this raises your nitric oxide.

same tests we saw from @Goose12 and @Walker Identical hairtests for saw palmetto people. I think someone else had the exactly same balance.

Helen,

Thanks for the explanation. Insulin rising to try to make more NADPH is very interesting. You have had me going through all my old medical records the last couple of days haha And u won’t believe what I found...

When I first crashed while on saw P almost 9 years ago I obviously went to the doctors not having any clue what was going on. my blood sugar was so low the doc though it was a lab error or I had diabetes. I Had to do follow up tests over the following couple of months and my blood sugar slowly raised. My body was probable raising insulin to try to correct the problem pulling all of my blood sugar out of my blood. CraZy...

I’m assuming that this could still happen from taking saw P despite saw p killing cholesterol binding. It sounds like it still could so this is very interesting. I will have to get the hair test to see whet my iron and manganese levels are at among other things.

 

[Trump_1776]

Altered methylation pattern of the SRD5A2 gene in cerebrospinal fluid of post-finasteride patients: a pilot study

 

[TubZy]

Swiss Temples from PHG who I know well, did horrible on fin and switched to dut and was fine and felt much better on it. He is prob the most well known person when it comes to dut especially from a long term user. He always claimed that despite lowering DHT more this translated into even higher test for him than fin did along with greater scalp DHT inhibition (which is better for hair purposes) compared to fin. And that the higher levels of T fills in the slot of DHT. I dont know if that was the case for sure, but everyone on PHG always demonized fin and praised dut and did better on it than fin. Also, many people reversed their sides while on fin/dut just by taking an anti estrogen and boom their sides are gone but their hair sheds again. My thought is that DHT and estrogen should both be though when you come off the drug so your body doesn't get all fucked up. Elevated estrogen could shut down the axis.
A loss recovered: My Story

 

[Aleksandr]

Swiss Temples from PHG who I know well, did horrible on fin and switched to dut and was fine and felt much better on it. He is prob the most well known person when it comes to dut especially from a long term user. He always claimed that despite lowering DHT more this translated into even higher test for him than fin did along with greater scalp DHT inhibition (which is better for hair purposes) compared to fin. And that the higher levels of T fills in the slot of DHT. I dont know if that was the case for sure, but everyone on PHG always demonized fin and praised dut and did better on it than fin. Also, many people reversed their sides while on fin/dut just by taking an anti estrogen and boom their sides are gone but their hair sheds again. My thought is that DHT and estrogen should both be though when you come off the drug so your body doesn't get all fucked up. Elevated estrogen could shut down the axis.
A loss recovered: My Story

Do you know what happened to this guy ? I noticed his main site shut down

 

[5 alpha]

Altered methylation pattern of the SRD5A2 gene in cerebrospinal fluid of post-finasteride patients: a pilot study

Trump,

Interesting. If I remember correctly the Baylor study looked at the SRD5A2 gene (gene that encodes 5ar) and found nothing in the PFS group ? Now this new study had found an altered methylation pattern but if I’m reading correctly a small percentage of the control group also had altered methylation pattern of their SRD5A2 gene as well?

I did not even realize that your link took me to the PH website. Awor changed things up I see?’

The PVDL kid is annoying as hell but I do see his point. If only 16 PFS people were tested and 16 percent of the control group also had altered methylation pattern of the SRD5A2 gene how can an logical conclusions be made . The PFS group should consist of like 50 people and so shouldn’t the control

 

[Trump_1776]

Trump,

Interesting. If I remember correctly the Baylor study looked at the SRD5A2 gene (gene that encodes 5ar) and found nothing in the PFS group ? Now this new study had found an altered methylation pattern but if I’m reading correctly a small percentage of the control group also had altered methylation pattern of their SRD5A2 gene as well?

I did not even realize that your link took me to the PH website. Awor changed things up I see?’

The PVDL kid is annoying as hell but I do see his point. If only 16 PFS people were tested and 16 percent of the control group also had altered methylation pattern of the SRD5A2 gene how can an logical conclusions be made . The PFS group should consist of like 50 people and so shouldn’t the control

Limitations limitations limitations. Welcome to the excitement

 

[Trump_1776]

Trump,

Interesting. If I remember correctly the Baylor study looked at the SRD5A2 gene (gene that encodes 5ar) and found nothing in the PFS group ? Now this new study had found an altered methylation pattern but if I’m reading correctly a small percentage of the control group also had altered methylation pattern of their SRD5A2 gene as well?

I did not even realize that your link took me to the PH website. Awor changed things up I see?’

The PVDL kid is annoying as hell but I do see his point. If only 16 PFS people were tested and 16 percent of the control group also had altered methylation pattern of the SRD5A2 gene how can an logical conclusions be made . The PFS group should consist of like 50 people and so shouldn’t the control

Astonished @Helen hasnt said anything bout it

 

[RebelWithACause]

Copper needs to be available all the time. otherwise it will cause crazy thing like depression serotonin inhibition in the brain/

Those people who take SSRI all copper toxic like you read about. in the brain. And they take SSRI and biovailable copper goes down completely.


This is why in PFS we have high progesterone in people. There is something in the body which is wasting potassium. cortisol is doing it.

And progesterone is raised to oppose that.


If we effect cortisol receptors, then the waster will be gone, and progesterone will retain potassium and go down.

Once potassium goes up in the cell. the LH starts up. and you get testosterone and estrogen. this is when iron and copper become available.


This is why in PFS you see closed down LH in people. the body just stopped the production of hormones

Since it cant raise estrogen without potassium in the cell. And without estrogen you wont feel any libido.


this is why I rec'd taking testosterone and progesterone to by pass the LH.


taking testosterone alone= DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It just bypasses the LH and increases estrogen in the low potassium state. WHICH SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN))

this is why Joe when started to take testosterone would never be able to handle it. without progesterone. Since it will cause crazy anxiety)) and the more you will be on it, the more anxiety will get.

And many people took testosterone also and cant handle it in PFS. since taking testosterone = taking FIN> You are wasting potassium

What fin does, it lowers DHT and increases estrogen. boom hair grows. but it kills potassium. You are running higher estrogen in low potassium State))

Then you quit fin, DHT goes back up, but there is no potassium and boom a HUGE SHUT down.)) Since DHT will WASTE THE POTASSIUM.


So fin upregulates AR receptors and cortisol receptors. and wastes potassium

After you quit the drug. you have upregulated cortisol action and zero potassium at the same time.

So progesterone has to rise.



Same things happens in Conn's disease or Cushings . exactly the same thing,

in Conn's aldosterone is raised and wastes potassium like crazy. And the body has to raise progesterone to oppose it. And you have zero libido

And in cushings , it is the same. cortisol is raised uncontrollable and this wastes potassium since cortisol and aldo both potassium wasters.

and the body has to raise progesterone to oppose this.


I had Cushings myself. I had an adenoma secreting cortisol. And My progesterone was always raised and I had PFS all the time.

When I got rid of adenoma. My progesterone fell within a month, since it managed to retain potassium and the levels of progesterone FELL.

And sex drive went up like crazy and estrogen and test and DHT all went up. and LH went up.


As you can see PFS is the same thing. but in PFS there are cortisol receptors which are screwed. not the adenoma.

This is a really good post.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

This is a really good post.

I can feel it myself after bactrim decrease a bit my toxoplasmosis CNS infection, which in effect raise my ceruloplasmin and copper.

 

[Admiral]

For cases with AR upregulated (low hormones) - The high potassium load up to increase NADPH, follow up with amino’s and B’s mentioned in this thread, should be looked into much more.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Nickel kills histidine . since we have nickel SOD.

People usually get crazy prostatitis from nickel toxicity guys, they have CFS and crazy inflammation. I am not sure if girls get the same in their organs.

But I know many people used histidine to chelate nickel out to get rid of POIS. I had several people get rid of POIS this way

I also had that thing yea it's made of nickel. Just stupid how much crap they give people lol. I was already sick from a young age then you get stuff like this on top of it. Never ending crap. Of course if you are healthy you are probably fine with all of the modern inventions. But if you are sick you get an avalanche of crap on top of your existing problems

 

[RebelWithACause]

I know a guy who went on finasteride not too long ago. He completely changed in personality in like 1 month. He was kind of like an alpha type of guy big jaw, chad looking dude. Became literally a raging PMS person.

The weird thing is that people who take it don't notice themselves it seems. Especially while on it and it slowly got stronger the effect of him becoming more PMS like.

I noticed the same way when I was on finasteride I was a completely different person almost. Yes I had some of my own personality traits but a lot of it was subdued/suppressed. I am thinking this is from a higher cortisol effect (unmitigated by androgens) and higher estrogen effect. I noticed I had no emotions on finasteride for example. Wouldn't be surprised if you also have lower immune system on it.

Maybe if you have some crazy genetic problem with DHT then it helps. Most people have no business touching this stuff. If you want to feel good that is. The guy is raging and low mood most of the time now. To stop hairloss you don't even need finasteride. Regrowth is harder of course.

Or take the right amount maybe if he took it like once a week it would be better. But who knows will it stop his hairloss then. If not then it's even more useless playing with it

 

[Ingeno]

I know a guy who went on finasteride not too long ago. He completely changed in personality in like 1 month. He was kind of like an alpha type of guy big jaw, chad looking dude. Became literally a raging PMS person.

The weird thing is that people who take it don't notice themselves it seems. Especially while on it and it slowly got stronger the effect of him becoming more PMS like.

I noticed the same way when I was on finasteride I was a completely different person almost. Yes I had some of my own personality traits but a lot of it was subdued/suppressed. I am thinking this is from a higher cortisol effect (unmitigated by androgens) and higher estrogen effect. I noticed I had no emotions on finasteride for example. Wouldn't be surprised if you also have lower immune system on it.

Maybe if you have some crazy genetic problem with DHT then it helps. Most people have no business touching this stuff. If you want to feel good that is. The guy is raging and low mood most of the time now. To stop hairloss you don't even need finasteride. Regrowth is harder of course.

Or take the right amount maybe if he took it like once a week it would be better. But who knows will it stop his hairloss then. If not then it's even more useless playing with it

I might try a very low dose topical in the future. But I agree, oral definitely fucks you up.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I might try a very low dose topical in the future. But I agree, oral definitely fucks you up.

Topical does as well it will go systemic too. But in lower amounts.

 

[Ingeno]

Topical does as well it will go systemic too. But in lower amounts.

I know. Talking more about microdose, or topical dut microdose, larger molecular weight. Still need something to stabilize my hair loss.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I know. Talking more about microdose, or topical dut microdose, larger molecular weight. Still need something to stabilize my hair loss.

Yea makes sense but I'd try to find your own solution. My hair has not fallen out. It's the same as it was in PFS (thinner on crown) and my androgens work. So now I look to get regrowth. I think within a year I might be able to do it. If it works I will post it here with actual pictures, I already made pictures of my crown now. If it doesn't work I'll also post it. But it will probably take time to see results.
Otherwise try the topical. I notice even small amounts of 5ar inhibition. Maybe I am just sensitive to it.

 

[MNK99]

I know a guy who went on finasteride not too long ago. He completely changed in personality in like 1 month. He was kind of like an alpha type of guy big jaw, chad looking dude. Became literally a raging PMS person.

The weird thing is that people who take it don't notice themselves it seems. Especially while on it and it slowly got stronger the effect of him becoming more PMS like.

I noticed the same way when I was on finasteride I was a completely different person almost. Yes I had some of my own personality traits but a lot of it was subdued/suppressed. I am thinking this is from a higher cortisol effect (unmitigated by androgens) and higher estrogen effect. I noticed I had no emotions on finasteride for example. Wouldn't be surprised if you also have lower immune system on it.

Maybe if you have some crazy genetic problem with DHT then it helps. Most people have no business touching this stuff. If you want to feel good that is. The guy is raging and low mood most of the time now. To stop hairloss you don't even need finasteride. Regrowth is harder of course.

Or take the right amount maybe if he took it like once a week it would be better. But who knows will it stop his hairloss then. If not then it's even more useless playing with it

Like roid rage rite ?

Ya my brother went aggro on fin
Many yrs ago. I was like 22 he was like 27. He quit it he said lowered sex drive but jypwrsexual Anywyas.

Just Fucking admit it’s dangerous!!
He does tho. Lucky no real Lasting fx.

Ya I’ll lay off the rad140 but honestly dht will be fine w some lith orotate n rite weed or gabapentin n both those for me.

Rad is known “the tren of sarms” whatever the hell that means.

Helps Ehlers danlos but surely anavar with 70 yrs of studies is better than “rad-140” which sounds like some skateboarder trick / energy drink / biker meth.

 

[MNK99]

Yea makes sense but I'd try to find your own solution. My hair has not fallen out. It's the same as it was in PFS (thinner on crown) and my androgens work. So now I look to get regrowth. I think within a year I might be able to do it. If it works I will post it here with actual pictures, I already made pictures of my crown now. If it doesn't work I'll also post it. But it will probably take time to see results.
Otherwise try the topical. I notice even small amounts of 5ar inhibition. Maybe I am just sensitive to it.

Yeah yeah bro 1-2 yrs. Maybe six -9 mo if really lucky.

Ah maybe if ur diffuse thinner 3-6 mo some regrowth. I get it sometimes
Possibly less ADHD medicine kind of need it to not die/ get injured/ get messed up in my career tho.

Maybe 2 yrs str8 99.99 percent carnivore will regrow but thats quite an ordeal.
Maybe 20 TEI cycles
I ain’t got time for dat tho.

I couldn’t even walk in finasteride see at night nor day well .. find my apartment but maybe 40 symptoms pfs 20-30 Ehlers danlos / hypermobile soectrum disorder.

I didn’t rage I was insanely destroyed.
Severely destroyed.

As a kid 19.5-21 on Effexor I was yeah pretty fucking krazy - rekr my GPA, befriended the drug dealers / gangsters.

Loss of soul after both. But fixed fast … thanks god Ànd thanks to you àll for Pfs.

several random friends in NYC it made their personalities different and really anxious or depressive but not like me nor Slayo. These drugs are murder for connective tissue disorder people.

Even minoxidil CÀn remove fat or collagen from peoples eye area acc to realself Ànd some EDS women at lst and personal exp.

Slayo has Marfans.
I’d say he looks pretty fucking handsome again but he’s less vain these days
Just working on health and retrained working in some non traditional health stuff for patients/clients.

We talked several mo ago but he’s Italian af and barely speaks English.

Oh, damn our friend here shd talk to him. The Italian kid… who wrote me in telegram.

I’ll share contact info with you for Slayo perhaps bro… (name: ).