ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

TubZy

TubZy

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K8668B said:
Im a pfs guy myself. I have trouble responding to many things. But i do have those rare random things that i do respond to. But Zinc is something i seemed to have responded to fairly well.
had another crash recently, about a few months ago, and the zinc literally pulled me out of the hole. Interesting.

I recently started supplementing with Zinc. Source naturals OptiZinc. It has Zinc monomethionine 30 mg, and copper sebacate 300mcg. I had some really good days on it. Still can have some bad days on it. Out of 10 days, i would say 6 of those days are good, and 4 of those days are bad.

I seem to have a sweet spot with how much i take. its all about the buildup of it in my system it seems. cycling somewhat seems ideal. if ive taken too much.. then ill stop taking.. and literally after a day or two of not taking it anymore, my energy levels get super high again. but if i go so long without zinc, it can lower my energy too.
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if you add in histidine and cysteine with the opti zinc you are taking you essentially will complete zinc finger. Since you respond well to zinc/copper already would be interesting to see how you feel on histidine and cysteine with it. If you try it is cheap, let us know. It should increase your gains further
 
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K8668B

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TubZy said:
if you add in histidine and cysteine with the opti zinc you are taking you essentially will complete zinc finger. Since you respond well to zinc/copper already would be interesting to see how you feel on histidine and cysteine with it. If you try it is cheap, let us know. It should increase your gains further
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I definitely will
 
Helen

Helen

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@TubZy I don't like the way this is doing. If this is not about histidine. then I don't know how good it is for people to even try it. zinc finger could be upregulated.

This guy is taking methionine. May be that is what is helping him. I keep telling you guyus about, but all you see is histidine and cysteine.

We need to see metabolism start on some parts of zinc finger and we dont' see it. SO no reason for others to try this until we figure it out.

Yeah, you did good on cysteine and histidine. But you don't know if this would stick yet. Then people will try this and make themselves worse and then we need to figure out what to do. I don't like it. We need to try this ourselves first and then make a protocol.

So far I don't like the way histidine cysteine acting really.
 
Canari

Canari

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gbolduev said:
zinc finger could be upregulated.
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We want to do some "post moderation" in order to sort out what came out of the brainstorming already. I have separated a few questions already, so that they can stand out. But it will take more time to go through this of zinc finger and sort out the different cases.

Maybe, what is needed now, is a way to know in which case people are. I understand the urgent feeling to want to try, but try less randomly would be safer.

And it goes way beyond consequences of fin or tane, because Nina has some similarities. And I went out of the hole with zinc too last year! Well part of it, as another part was methyl-B12. and also p5p. And I keep seeing those names all over the topics! And lastly, in september, I tried more zinc, and I do bad on it, and hair test shows low copper. I cannot find a logical thread to pull from the messy ball of wool for me, so I can imagine others....

What analysis is needed to know about, blood, urine or hair, and let's do a separated topic for ONLY this, what to test and how.
 
W

wuf

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Canari said:
We want to do some "post moderation" in order to sort out what came out of the brainstorming already. I have separated a few questions already, so that they can stand out. But it will take more time to go through this of zinc finger and sort out the different cases.

Maybe, what is needed now, is a way to know in which case people are.

And it goes way beyond consequences of fin or tane, because Nina has some similarities. And I went out of the hole with zinc too last year! Well part of it, as another part was methyl-B12. and also p5p. And I keep seeing those names all over the topics! And lastly, in september, I tried more zinc, and I do bad on it, and hair test shows low copper. I cannot find a logical thread to pull for me, so I can imagine others....

What analysis is needed to know, and let's do a separated topic for ONLY this, what to test and how.
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If I am not wrong, these are the tests needed:

istidine - istamine - cysteine - acid folic - copper - ceruloplasmin - iron methabolism - insulin

Am I wrong?
 
barbaar

barbaar

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@gbolduev @Canari I agree, we should create a topic guiding people on what to do, instead of only telling them what not to do. Probably a good idea to lock it so it doesn't get messy, and update it as the mods see fit.

Don't take any random stuff blindly (I know that's what I've been doing, but I want to change that).

Maybe give examples on what blood tests, hair tests to get. And maybe urine aminos. Basically anything that could give you the information you need.

I totally understand all the people jumping on everything that has a small chance of fixing them. Not very long ago I was so hopeless, nearly suicidal because I thought I'd never get back to normal again, but this forum has given me hope. We need your guidance papi gbol.

Edit: to be fair, you did tell people not to jump on the protocol, but discuss it instead. But you also said people could try different things. Maybe we can set this stuff up in a more controlled way? Eg. get these tests, if you have these results, try this, if you have these results, try this other thing. Then report back with the results. Just my random thoughts. I'll leave the rest to the people who actually know what they're talking about.
 
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Canari

Canari

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barbaar said:
@gbolduev @Canari I agree, we should create a topic guiding people on what to do, instead of only telling them what not to do.
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Like my post 10 times so that everybody agree...
....and commit to be more disciplined about posting at the right places!
barbaar said:
probably a good idea to lock it so it doesn't get messy,
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barbaar said:
Don't take any random stuff blindly (I know that's what I've been doing, but I want to change that).
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Thumb up man!
Thanks for telling you have more hope!
 
Helen

Helen

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we need to start up metabolism for people. @joekool is doing good on thyroid, and I think the main thing is to allow the metabolism to work again. If we can succesfully jump start it with t3 and AI, I guess that would also work for the short term.

the whole idea of zinc finger would be to lower cortisol and increase metabolism only this will allow copper to work, and once copper works the whole axis works.

But so far I did not see histidine and cysteine do that. I saw it give the drive and libido back. But who knows if this will stick.

the goal is balance and not just libido and erections.
 
Canari

Canari

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wuf said:
If I am not wrong, these are the tests needed:

istidine - istamine - cysteine - acid folic - copper - ceruloplasmin - iron methabolism - insulin

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
dunno....
i promise I find time today to look for the oldest post I can find about analysis, and split it to make the desired topic!
Whoever can help me by giving me links....

gbolduev said:
he goal is balance and not just libido and erections.
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I agree, forget about it, as it will come back on its own when metabolism is ok. Easier said than done, but it will come back even better is you focus less, for the simple reason that focussing with urgency on something triggers the fight and flight response in the body, and this does not allow your rest/digest/ IMMUNE system to work, as they are blocked by the sympathetic activation!
 
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Helen

Helen

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@TubZy

Liver: Anti-thyroid, Vit A, Copper

Read this thread. this guy took, thyroid. and it did nothing for him until he took cysteine. Which we discussed with @joekool since cysteine along with histidine is needed for D1 enzyme. so when there is little glutathione RT3 is made

It is kind of weird but the experience of this guy is a complete opposite of Ray Peat views.

N-Acetylcysteine Administration Prevents Nonthyroidal Illness Syndrome in Patients With Acute Myocardial Infarction: A Randomized Clinical Trial (PDF Download Available)
 
Helen

Helen

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barbaar said:
Wouldn't decreasing inflammation help bring cortisol down? Or is that not the case here because the reason cortisol is high is different?
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that is what I am thinking also. suppressing inflammation should bring down RT3 hormone and also bring down cortisol since cortisol reception is stronger.
 
TubZy

TubZy

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gbolduev said:
we need to start up metabolism for people. @joekool is doing good on thyroid, and I think the main thing is to allow the metabolism to work again. If we can succesfully jump start it with t3 and AI, I guess that would also work for the short term.

the whole idea of zinc finger would be to lower cortisol and increase metabolism only this will allow copper to work, and once copper works the whole axis works.

But so far I did not see histidine and cysteine do that. I saw it give the drive and libido back. But who knows if this will stick.

the goal is balance and not just libido and erections.
Click to expand...

When you say AI, which kind are you talking about? Like pharmaceutical type AI's like letrozole or something like zinc?
 
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