2nd TEI Hair Analysis (after 2 months of avoiding calcium)
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I think 5ar from foods are fine. Eggs and tomatoes also contain compound that inhibits the 5AR, but I doubt a diet full of tomatoes, eggs, and pumpkin seed would ever trigger a PFS
Pumpkin seed is recommended as its loaded in zinc, Mg, B6 and it's the only nut/seed that doesn't contain copper.
Pumpkin seed are definitely potent . I don't know if its the zinc content or the slight 5AR action that may enhance testosterone ( since it doesn't convert to DHT > more serum testosterone- not sure if it really works that way ) but they used to trigger a crazy libido, before Acc.
I often eat them and never experienced bad effects from it. YMMV
Chapman
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RebelWithACause
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On TEI I took high amount of zinc (known 5AR inhibitor in higher amounts), B6 (known 5AR inhibitor), B2 (known 5AR inhibitor),etc. Plus ate diet w/ olive oil (5AR inhibitor), butter (has compounds that inhibit 5AR). Vegetables also often contain anti-androgen properties and/or 5AR lowering compounds.
Almost everything contains 5AR inhibitor properties. It is just when you overdo it or you inhibit too much it will give problems.
Focus on the big picture. Focussing on 5AR is old news and not very useful. Some guys feel better on lower 5AR and some guys feel better with higher 5AR in PFS.
We are focussing on balance here not anything too low or too high. Just don't eat anything weird. Eat simple meals with high nutrients.
Almost everything contains 5AR inhibitor properties. It is just when you overdo it or you inhibit too much it will give problems.
Focus on the big picture. Focussing on 5AR is old news and not very useful. Some guys feel better on lower 5AR and some guys feel better with higher 5AR in PFS.
We are focussing on balance here not anything too low or too high. Just don't eat anything weird. Eat simple meals with high nutrients.
MNK99
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Ya ive eaten 5ar's. Among worse things (not on tei. chocolate cake a bit. some other garbage).
anyways, ya I doubt it will screw things up. I meant Fenugreek @Chapman. But for some, maybe not worth the risk just yet.
I had carrots at times this year, it was fine. I mean I don't go out of my way to avoid every single potentially 5ari food. But if crashing I would. OR if I just crashed.
I eat really really clean mostly, but maybe 1/25 bad days becomes 2/15 sometimes. Sometimes I test out bad to see if it makes me that much worse, or I slip because of company, or just forgetting/ not really remembering which foods to avoid. But mostly clean. Cleaning it up. --when clear of mind, I basically eat 5-6 foods.
-Depends how paranoid I'm feeling. I avoid it 98 -99% of the time, but was 100. And Increasing AR sounds good and worked, but killing it bad. I guess Randro increases AR action but not killing it.. FIN causes androgen deprivation.
anyways, ya I doubt it will screw things up. I meant Fenugreek @Chapman. But for some, maybe not worth the risk just yet.
I had carrots at times this year, it was fine. I mean I don't go out of my way to avoid every single potentially 5ari food. But if crashing I would. OR if I just crashed.
I eat really really clean mostly, but maybe 1/25 bad days becomes 2/15 sometimes. Sometimes I test out bad to see if it makes me that much worse, or I slip because of company, or just forgetting/ not really remembering which foods to avoid. But mostly clean. Cleaning it up. --when clear of mind, I basically eat 5-6 foods.
-Depends how paranoid I'm feeling. I avoid it 98 -99% of the time, but was 100. And Increasing AR sounds good and worked, but killing it bad. I guess Randro increases AR action but not killing it.. FIN causes androgen deprivation.
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it is a huge difference when you inhibit 5ar by making your AR stronger, with zinc, with b2, with acetylation, and inhibit 5ar and cause androgen deprivation by things that actually kill the androgen action like sitosterols or fin, etc.
Those are 2 different things. Most things that inhibit 5ar do that by making DHT action stronger.
Those are 2 different things. Most things that inhibit 5ar do that by making DHT action stronger.
tanedout
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Over 1 month on TEI now.
Had a period of bad anxiety, but that seems to have passed now, and I'm feeling good - actually feeling better than I have done for a long time - really calm and unstressed sort of feeling. Some slight spurts of libido too. Not much, but still a good feeling.
I've been avoiding calcium (I think I may have actually become vitamin D toxic over time, with the levels building up as I've been supplementing - hair test confirmed this, and said to avoid dairy and vitamin d) and I'm also avoiding sodium as this seems to make anxiety a bit worse. I'm also avoiding fat, and this seems to help mental clarity a lot.
I had a mini recovery for 2 days or so a couple of years back when I had a period where I got really ill after eating fat, so I completely avoided it for 10-14 days, after which I was getting better, so I started eating fat again, but there was a 2 day period when I felt almost recovered - libido and sensitivity were probably up to 75%.
Not sure if anyone has tried to completely avoid fat for like 2-3 weeks? I remember Helen posted some stuff on neurosteriod levels in CSF (PFS study shows many at low levels in people with PFS - likely the same with PAS/PSSD), and I read activation of the LXR (Liver X Receptor) increases neurosteriod levels in CSF, and LXR is activated by things like bile, but also Helen said by isotretinion/accutane. If this is the case I wonder if accutane has left it down-regulated - resulting in the lower levels of neurosteriods?
So if you actually avoid fat (which triggers bile, and activates LXR) and other things which activate it, maybe it will down-regulate it? (just thinking out load really)
Other things - sleep is pretty good, still tend to wake early sometimes, but usually sleep through. No issues with feeling hypoglycaemic after a load of grapes anymore. Digestion seems good.
Had a period of bad anxiety, but that seems to have passed now, and I'm feeling good - actually feeling better than I have done for a long time - really calm and unstressed sort of feeling. Some slight spurts of libido too. Not much, but still a good feeling.
I've been avoiding calcium (I think I may have actually become vitamin D toxic over time, with the levels building up as I've been supplementing - hair test confirmed this, and said to avoid dairy and vitamin d) and I'm also avoiding sodium as this seems to make anxiety a bit worse. I'm also avoiding fat, and this seems to help mental clarity a lot.
I had a mini recovery for 2 days or so a couple of years back when I had a period where I got really ill after eating fat, so I completely avoided it for 10-14 days, after which I was getting better, so I started eating fat again, but there was a 2 day period when I felt almost recovered - libido and sensitivity were probably up to 75%.
Not sure if anyone has tried to completely avoid fat for like 2-3 weeks? I remember Helen posted some stuff on neurosteriod levels in CSF (PFS study shows many at low levels in people with PFS - likely the same with PAS/PSSD), and I read activation of the LXR (Liver X Receptor) increases neurosteriod levels in CSF, and LXR is activated by things like bile, but also Helen said by isotretinion/accutane. If this is the case I wonder if accutane has left it down-regulated - resulting in the lower levels of neurosteriods?
So if you actually avoid fat (which triggers bile, and activates LXR) and other things which activate it, maybe it will down-regulate it? (just thinking out load really)
Other things - sleep is pretty good, still tend to wake early sometimes, but usually sleep through. No issues with feeling hypoglycaemic after a load of grapes anymore. Digestion seems good.
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Aleksandr
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Good to hear you're doing well. Interesting about the fat, they do recommend you go lower fat if you're a slow too (high calcium/d)
MNK99
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Yeah kind of sucks bc for years I ate increasingly more fat, less carbs. SO to feel totally very healthy again Id like to just eat basically how I did. AND TEI recs are close but still a bit different. Felt full eating one meal or 2 staggered meals (or more) at like 1am -4am (that is kind of fucked up tho. Keep normal hours like a real adult at least). BUt, now I just add more rice, potatoes etc. Maybe not potatoes on TEI, not sure about that one*. But I do eat rice whereas back in the day, probably wouldn't even eat that. Was more ketogenic or nearly. Carbs are great back loaded tho. Slow 1. Fast on arl (a bit not super fast). Next TEI's hopefully get better too (been going well). I just hope it doesn't reveal anything fucked up, in the next test. JK.
tanedout
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About 1 month and 1 week into TEI, and I'm going to have to give the supplements a break.
Pretty sure the issues I'm getting are down to die-off/herxheimer from the betaine HCL. I've had a few bad migraines, quite a lot of periods of really bad anxiety, but over the last couple of days I've had periods of shivering and really bad heart palpitations which have made me decide to give it a break, but they're all symptoms of herx. Also been eating a piece of raw garlic each day, and usually fresh ginger tea which are things which are also likely to contribute to killing of bacteria, so I'm stopping that too.
Hopefully I'll restart in a week or two, and will see how things go in the meantime. Pretty sold on TEI overall though, but I think you've got to take it slow, it's not a quick fix.
Pretty sure the issues I'm getting are down to die-off/herxheimer from the betaine HCL. I've had a few bad migraines, quite a lot of periods of really bad anxiety, but over the last couple of days I've had periods of shivering and really bad heart palpitations which have made me decide to give it a break, but they're all symptoms of herx. Also been eating a piece of raw garlic each day, and usually fresh ginger tea which are things which are also likely to contribute to killing of bacteria, so I'm stopping that too.
Hopefully I'll restart in a week or two, and will see how things go in the meantime. Pretty sold on TEI overall though, but I think you've got to take it slow, it's not a quick fix.
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Dont stop man, you are chelating . 1 month is way to early to stop. Grind thru. receptors needs to readjust
Ingeno
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Keep going man, I've had the crazy anxiety and heart palpipations too, especially the first 5-6 weeks. They will fade somewhat and will be more managable to further you go.
MNK99
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Yeah definitely palpitations /anxiety first half cycle. Even now after 85-86 d
Unrelated. But that's way way better than suicidal, doing jack waiting for the end.
Gets way better. Did probably freak me out a little but just took it a bit easier if that happened. Will cycle Tei 2 sometimes Q1.
Honestly a lot of things can cause palpitations for me. Plus I move around alot. Resting heart rate fine even low at times. But when tested pretty high but that's probably because I ran to the docs appointment. Was high on Randro/4andro. And stims before all this. Maybe palpitations 20 * in last 6 mo. Or* sometimes I'm just hypersensitive and notice heart rate.
Unrelated. But that's way way better than suicidal, doing jack waiting for the end.
Gets way better. Did probably freak me out a little but just took it a bit easier if that happened. Will cycle Tei 2 sometimes Q1.
Honestly a lot of things can cause palpitations for me. Plus I move around alot. Resting heart rate fine even low at times. But when tested pretty high but that's probably because I ran to the docs appointment. Was high on Randro/4andro. And stims before all this. Maybe palpitations 20 * in last 6 mo. Or* sometimes I'm just hypersensitive and notice heart rate.
@tanedout
Thanks for updating, are you on the full or 1/2 the recommended dose of your suggested supplements?
tanedout
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@Sawsides - just on 1/3 of the suggested dose, but the suggested amounts in my latest test were really high. Would've been 30 caps per day. I'm only light, and they don't factor in body weight, so went with a reduced dose.
I'm definitely going to have to give it a rest for a bit, maybe do some juicing, then will do another month on the same sups and probably re-test after that.
I'm definitely going to have to give it a rest for a bit, maybe do some juicing, then will do another month on the same sups and probably re-test after that.
Cut out the garlic and ginger. They both made me worse. Just do what tei says. A lot of other stuff can make you worse so be careful.
tanedout
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Been taking TUDCA for the last couple of days for what I think has been bile acid backed up in the liver (cholestasis). This issues were worse after eating a meal with fat in it. No fat meal like just fruit and veg was fine, but as soon as I include fat then 1 hour later I feel like pressure inside, tight chest, heart palps. Was having periods of shivering and pains in the liver/GB area. I don't think it's got anything to do with TEI, and I'll likely restart that at a later date. Already the TUDCA is helping even at small doses.
I've had these things before, and did get a prescription of UDCA previously, but it was noticeably less effective than TUDCA. I stopped taking it before as I ran out. The other thing which seems to help is Tribulus (very bitter herb). Seems to get the bile flowing.
Probably going to get some bloods done tomorrow and see if liver enzymes are elevated, but will try and also get cortisol, electrolytes, ferritin etc too. I'll definitely keep up with the TUDCA for a while. May introduce some of things included in this - basically choline, methionine, inositol (and wouldn't need to include taurine with taking TUDCA already) [this is not a referral link, and I'm not promoting this product]
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0..._JOCKD_3.00x7.94_081915_p-01.jpg?v=1527182160
This guy cured his accutane sides with TUDCA and some other stuff, and I think it's no coincidence;
I've had these things before, and did get a prescription of UDCA previously, but it was noticeably less effective than TUDCA. I stopped taking it before as I ran out. The other thing which seems to help is Tribulus (very bitter herb). Seems to get the bile flowing.
Probably going to get some bloods done tomorrow and see if liver enzymes are elevated, but will try and also get cortisol, electrolytes, ferritin etc too. I'll definitely keep up with the TUDCA for a while. May introduce some of things included in this - basically choline, methionine, inositol (and wouldn't need to include taurine with taking TUDCA already) [this is not a referral link, and I'm not promoting this product]
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0..._JOCKD_3.00x7.94_081915_p-01.jpg?v=1527182160
This guy cured his accutane sides with TUDCA and some other stuff, and I think it's no coincidence;
Aleksandr
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Super interesting post man! Never thought id see the day of a youtube video titled "how to get rid of accutane" !! And its two years old, lol
@Orion @Helen what do you guys make of this?
I also googled "bile flow" after this because he talked a lot about taking ox bile, and the symptoms of not enough bile flow include yellowing of the eyes (mine are yellow AF and dry!)
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bile flow is the problem, which I wrote out in electrolyts protocol, this is why liver flushes were important. and are important.
tanedout
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Yeah it's interesting. Bile flow seems to be a particular issue for PAS from what I gather. I've just had some bloods done including liver enzymes and electrolytes, so we'll see if anything is amiss.
TUDCA Is helping already though. I'm going to stay on it for a while. Makes me start sweating again, so I'll have to dig out some deodorant!
I think the youtube video gets it right that bile is backed up in the liver and not flowing properly. This causes oxidative stress, which is considered the root cause for many serious conditions. TUDCA and UDCA are both shown in studies to be very effective against this.
Tauroursodeoxycholic Acid - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects
Also found this study on 'drug induced cholestasis'. Seems many pharmaceuticals are known to cause this condition, but isotretinoin/finasteride aren't currently listed ;
From the study above, any idea what this means @Helen ?
Fat soluble vitamins (A, D and K) should be replaced via the parenteral route in patients with long standing cholestasis.