Abnormal reaction to substances

[Resurection]

Hi all, read the forum earlier, it's one of the few places where a bunch of pretty smart guys are gathered decided who are trying to figure things out. Decided to write.

Need some real help with understanding at least one problem. I'm trying to understand the biochemical mechanism.

The gist of it is this. Ultra low doses of various substances, they are absurdly low, cause the effect as from an ultra high dose. The problem is not only the effect, the problem is that the receptors are also regulated.

Example:

I took rhodiola. I took about 0.1 mg of the substance and put it on my tongue. After 1 minute, it caused a decrease in cortisol, which dropped to 0. Not only that, the effect is still there, it's been about 8 months.

I took a similar dose of berberine, it destroyed the androgen receptors, lost my voice, libido, etc. I later regained them, but the fact is.

Agmatine, dose even lower (literally a molecule ahah), disrupted cortisol, serotonin receptors, increased inflammation.

I could list for a long time. The only things that seem to be excreted are minerals, vitamins, amino acids. But still, even these have a high effect at low doses and can last for days at a time, which in theory can become toxic, regarding minerals.

This happened literally immediately, after a finasteride tablet. So PFS is paramount here.

My thoughts are all about 5 beta reductase, cyp3a4, glycoprotein P and PXR. But not quite sure how to test for these, much less fix them. I've adjusted many symptoms, but this one has never been able to be changed, even if only temporarily.

There is the thought of glutathione, a phase 2 detox, but in that case, I wouldn't get the effect of everything instantly, but would get it from metabolites. Also no antioxidants work for me, including NAC.

I'm the kind of person who can't tolerate anything that raises 5ar and androgens. Conversely, when I block 5ar, I feel better on many counts, but even in a state where I am almost cured, this symptom does not change in any way.

I'm also one of those Pfs who has a fully working libido and erection and no problems with penis shrinkage. But I am highly inflamed autoimmune and have many other problems that I will probably tell you about separately as the story is very long.

As you realize, with such a reaction it is difficult to say anything about treatment, I actually can't even calculate the dose. There is an idea to go on dexamethasone for CYP induction, but my cortisol is extremely insensitive, I don't know if I can get off it.

It also seems like people with CFS have a similar problem. But they don't seem to care much since I haven't seen any attempts to figure it out.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them, especially if someone has a similar problem and has managed to fix it, albeit briefly. Perhaps someone has seen some good research? Anyway, any help and information is welcome. Thanks.

 

[MNK99]

Some sort of impaired drug metabolism.
Could be cytochrome p450... a connective tissue disorder... MCAS... some random thing we don't know about.

genetically could just not react well to some substances.

Or could be PFS or androgen deprivation (or more aptly, androgen receptor overexpression), if you took a medicine. Ah yeah, I just read it... and remmeber your name. PFS.

Gotta make system stable enough to respond to them... probably 90-95% of people with PFS, don't at least not till they are pretty healthy.

Could be any of the 50-100 pathways shutdown and impaired. Where along the hormonal/neurosteroidal cascades is any one individual is maleffected? I don't know.

Dutch test maybe? I always wanted that.
I am sure CFS, and lots of disorders androgen receptor and the like can be affected. For many of them. many ppl have CFS and PFS. Pretty sure I had both to an extent.

I couldn't sleep like a year... and was very weak and tired (2017). lost all my muscle, depressed, etc etc.

Stimulants (psyche, illegal), nicotine, alcohol, androgens, even sarms... etc work ... since summer 2018, I started healing for real in a regimented fashion in Jan 2018, although I did fast and like did juice feasting like over a month in winter of 2017 (It wasn't enough).


I think fasting... then refeeding, then the TMO herbs, and then like randro/4andro made androgen receptor mostly work again.
Also Ru486 for 2weeks and ellaone (not recommending to everyone, tho I think they helped me a lot, maybe not all gains were permanent tho). I took ru486 like a couple weeks maybe a month or 2 max, after fasting.

Then ellaone weeks later... then like randro/4andro june maybe even march april.. not sure. Herbs like 6-8 weeks, 8 weeks of Ra/4a (they are mostly not good now, tho the gels from
Iconic Formulations (who owned Socal etc and that forum, Swole) are pretty good. Alpha four is good.

Also even in great health I mean like ya I'd take 25-50mg of lamictal, surely some on 200-300mg. Like some things I hyperrespond to, some not at all or it isn't enough.

Like 5mg lithium i respond to well.

Some vodka, some weed etc I respond to well (I was super clean and am like 80% of adulthood, like super clean for me no drinks no smoking basically most of last 15+ yrs).

If I was prescribed and needed some systemic antibiotic, I'd take a low dose. 1. Bc of trauma of PSSD as a kid and PFS later.
2. I need a low dose.. and respond well to various things, or I mean some can fuck me up.

Doubt they'd crash me tho, but I won't chance it (seeing as tho I cleared like surgery drugs, antibiotics, finasteride, pain killers, alcohol, etc etc, in water fasting in 2018).

I am still aware tho/.. things can affect me strongly (not in androgen deprivn sense, but like ya im sensitive as fuck in many ways).

Or I respond well and it isn't bad and can up doses. like 100-300mg test, doesn't fk me up... im sure 500mg wouldn't either ok i don't need that stuff, and sure it isn't great for heart if forever.
And makes no sense when I can take a second compound and up DHT, and free test, and or something that is basically designed for an issue I have (connective tissue disorder), like Ostarine.

I was scared for yrs of these things, they're fine. If you live stoic-super soldier like for 1-2 yrs, then other stuff doesn't hurt you, in most cases.
Some are obviously sicker but trust me I was fucking extremely sick. Like cannot walk, sleep use the washrrom a year sick.

Neurologically, connective tissue wise, muscle loss wise, sexually, endocrinologically, psychologically depression and anxiety and hopelessness. Impaired cognition.

But yeah some with CFS or some other underlying conditions are worse. BUt pretty sure many of us would test positive for various things that induce CFS, like Lymes.

Mineral people will say, imbalances overtime get out of wack and aggregate to do something else. Or the sanctimonious types would say: "I never said that" and then make up something else.
No one knows. There are no final answers.

The more you know, the less you do.

 

[Resurection]

Some sort of impaired drug metabolism.
Could be cytochrome p450... a connective tissue disorder... MCAS... some random thing we don't know about.

genetically could just not react well to some substances.

Or could be PFS or androgen deprivation (or more aptly, androgen receptor overexpression), if you took a medicine. Ah yeah, I just read it... and remmeber your name. PFS.

Gotta make system stable enough to respond to them... probably 90-95% of people with PFS, don't at least not till they are pretty healthy.

Could be any of the 50-100 pathways shutdown and impaired. Where along the hormonal/neurosteroidal cascades is any one individual is maleffected? I don't know.

Dutch test maybe? I always wanted that.
I am sure CFS, and lots of disorders androgen receptor and the like can be affected. For many of them. many ppl have CFS and PFS. Pretty sure I had both to an extent.

I couldn't sleep like a year... and was very weak and tired (2017). lost all my muscle, depressed, etc etc.

Stimulants (psyche, illegal), nicotine, alcohol, androgens, even sarms... etc work ... since summer 2018, I started healing for real in a regimented fashion in Jan 2018, although I did fast and like did juice feasting like over a month in winter of 2017 (It wasn't enough).


I think fasting... then refeeding, then the TMO herbs, and then like randro/4andro made androgen receptor mostly work again.
Also Ru486 for 2weeks and ellaone (not recommending to everyone, tho I think they helped me a lot, maybe not all gains were permanent tho). I took ru486 like a couple weeks maybe a month or 2 max, after fasting.

Then ellaone weeks later... then like randro/4andro june maybe even march april.. not sure. Herbs like 6-8 weeks, 8 weeks of Ra/4a (they are mostly not good now, tho the gels from
Iconic Formulations (who owned Socal etc and that forum, Swole) are pretty good. Alpha four is good.

Also even in great health I mean like ya I'd take 25-50mg of lamictal, surely some on 200-300mg. Like some things I hyperrespond to, some not at all or it isn't enough.

Like 5mg lithium i respond to well.

Some vodka, some weed etc I respond to well (I was super clean and am like 80% of adulthood, like super clean for me no drinks no smoking basically most of last 15+ yrs).

If I was prescribed and needed some systemic antibiotic, I'd take a low dose. 1. Bc of trauma of PSSD as a kid and PFS later.
2. I need a low dose.. and respond well to various things, or I mean some can fuck me up.

Doubt they'd crash me tho, but I won't chance it (seeing as tho I cleared like surgery drugs, antibiotics, finasteride, pain killers, alcohol, etc etc, in water fasting in 2018).

I am still aware tho/.. things can affect me strongly (not in androgen deprivn sense, but like ya im sensitive as fuck in many ways).

Or I respond well and it isn't bad and can up doses. like 100-300mg test, doesn't fk me up... im sure 500mg wouldn't either ok i don't need that stuff, and sure it isn't great for heart if forever.
And makes no sense when I can take a second compound and up DHT, and free test, and or something that is basically designed for an issue I have (connective tissue disorder), like Ostarine.

I was scared for yrs of these things, they're fine. If you live stoic-super soldier like for 1-2 yrs, then other stuff doesn't hurt you, in most cases.
Some are obviously sicker but trust me I was fucking extremely sick. Like cannot walk, sleep use the washrrom a year sick.

Neurologically, connective tissue wise, muscle loss wise, sexually, endocrinologically, psychologically depression and anxiety and hopelessness. Impaired cognition.

But yeah some with CFS or some other underlying conditions are worse. BUt pretty sure many of us would test positive for various things that induce CFS, like Lymes.

Mineral people will say, imbalances overtime get out of wack and aggregate to do something else. Or the sanctimonious types would say: "I never said that" and then make up something else.
No one knows. There are no final answers.

The more you know, the less you do.

Thanks for the post dude.)

There's nothing wrong with genetics, this problem came right after taking a finasteride pill. Within 10-15 minutes. Of course it could be a mutation or epigenetics for example, but so far it's doubtful.

There were already suggestions that finasteride closes NADP. Low NADP inhibits PXR, which eventually leads to suppression of CYP3a4. Glycoprotein P, also depends on PXR, its role is to take toxins from tissues and push them to exit. All of this happens in both the liver and the intestine.

I came to the same conclusion as gbold. He also added the glutathione part, which is needed for phase 2 detoxification. But glutathione is difficult for me, in that I don't feel it in any way, no NAC, no antioxidants, no amino acids, absolute 0.

Actually, there is a suggestion that this is why dexamethasone, St. John's wort, vitamin D, rampamycin and cured people with PFS, PSSD. They're all CYP3a4 agonists and they're supposed to get the drugs out of the body. It's the strangest coincidence that all these drugs have cured people. A guy walks in the sun, 10,000 steps a day and cures PFS, funny.

There's just theories that it's autoimmunity, a leaky GEB, epigenetics. And it's confounding.

My problem is insensitive cortisol, which strongly inhibits HDC. When cortisol rises, I literally lose all histamine, its 0. I can watch porn, the body will raise cortisol and immediately all desire and arousal is gone, even though a second ago I was wildly aroused, funny. This is also why I have reactions to chemicals like soap, toothpaste, because the body requires histamine for an allergic reaction. But histidine, although it detoxifies, it is not the cause of drug reactions. I tested this point, on low cortisol I have a lot of histamine and I assume histidine since methylation is low.

I was messing around with androgens, taking proviron at a dose of 200, for about a month. I lost arousal and had difficulty reaching orgasm, but took away the inflammation. Loss of orgasms, it's probably noradrenaline, you give tyrosine a drop and everything works, but later on inflammation again. So not sure about androgens. I've had the same way of breaking them down and rebuilding them, which resulted in about the same thing. For me the drop in test and consequent estrogen is the main point.

On the starvation thing, yes, good point. I've tried it but it makes me worse, cortisol and norepinephrine rises on it. It was still weight then, now I've lost a lot of weight and can't afford it. I also can't eat fats, I get severe inflammation and dizziness, almost to the point of fainting, which just hints at liver, bile or pancreas, so a diet with fats is torture for me.

I also know that many people with PFS react strangely to medications. A lot of people can have a stronger reaction than expected and malfunctions. That's why I want to understand, it's not just about the reaction itself, it's about a lot of things.

There's an enzyme called POR (PORD) . It works on NADPH. People who are deficient in this enzyme get similar symptoms to PFS, including a change, a shrinking of the penis. This is an interesting point that suggests a failure in NADPH. Perhaps we all have, initially, a G6PD enzyme load or a problem in G6P.

Mefipristone, please describe in more detail, what were the symptoms on it, how did you feel and how long does it take to recover? I want to understand roughly what to expect from it, as for me, blocking cortisol is a teething problem.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Hi all, read the forum earlier, it's one of the few places where a bunch of pretty smart guys are gathered decided who are trying to figure things out. Decided to write.

Need some real help with understanding at least one problem. I'm trying to understand the biochemical mechanism.

The gist of it is this. Ultra low doses of various substances, they are absurdly low, cause the effect as from an ultra high dose. The problem is not only the effect, the problem is that the receptors are also regulated.

Example:

I took rhodiola. I took about 0.1 mg of the substance and put it on my tongue. After 1 minute, it caused a decrease in cortisol, which dropped to 0. Not only that, the effect is still there, it's been about 8 months.

I took a similar dose of berberine, it destroyed the androgen receptors, lost my voice, libido, etc. I later regained them, but the fact is.

Agmatine, dose even lower (literally a molecule ahah), disrupted cortisol, serotonin receptors, increased inflammation.

I could list for a long time. The only things that seem to be excreted are minerals, vitamins, amino acids. But still, even these have a high effect at low doses and can last for days at a time, which in theory can become toxic, regarding minerals.

This happened literally immediately, after a finasteride tablet. So PFS is paramount here.

My thoughts are all about 5 beta reductase, cyp3a4, glycoprotein P and PXR. But not quite sure how to test for these, much less fix them. I've adjusted many symptoms, but this one has never been able to be changed, even if only temporarily.

There is the thought of glutathione, a phase 2 detox, but in that case, I wouldn't get the effect of everything instantly, but would get it from metabolites. Also no antioxidants work for me, including NAC.

I'm the kind of person who can't tolerate anything that raises 5ar and androgens. Conversely, when I block 5ar, I feel better on many counts, but even in a state where I am almost cured, this symptom does not change in any way.

I'm also one of those Pfs who has a fully working libido and erection and no problems with penis shrinkage. But I am highly inflamed autoimmune and have many other problems that I will probably tell you about separately as the story is very long.

As you realize, with such a reaction it is difficult to say anything about treatment, I actually can't even calculate the dose. There is an idea to go on dexamethasone for CYP induction, but my cortisol is extremely insensitive, I don't know if I can get off it.

It also seems like people with CFS have a similar problem. But they don't seem to care much since I haven't seen any attempts to figure it out.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them, especially if someone has a similar problem and has managed to fix it, albeit briefly. Perhaps someone has seen some good research? Anyway, any help and information is welcome. Thanks.

had the same
were ultrasensitive for substances
drug called bactrim helped me (I have toxoplasmosis infection)

 

[Resurection]

had the same
were ultrasensitive for substances
drug called bactrim helped me (I have toxoplasmosis infection)

That's interesting, thank you. I've heard it can enlarge the liver and spleen. And can you please tell me what symptoms you've been experiencing personally?

 

[merebalacy]

Hi bud, I am also vastly different to most PFS cases too. I highly relate to the immune stuff - you can see how fucked it was on my log.

If you have these sensitivities from one finasteride tab, then you were quite imbalanced before taking it, that or genetics as MNK said. I've tested the things you've listed and they're okay genetically so PFS is just messing with everything.

How do you know your cortisol is insensitive? Is it high on bloods? I do not recommend blocking 5ar btw, does it leave you worse off?

 

[MNK99]

Good informative posts in this thread @Resurection. I will get back to you after I catch up on work and studies/ when I’m not stoned.

 

[Resurection]

Hi bud, I am also vastly different to most PFS cases too. I highly relate to the immune stuff - you can see how fucked it was on my log.

If you have these sensitivities from one finasteride tab, then you were quite imbalanced before taking it, that or genetics as MNK said. I've tested the things you've listed and they're okay genetically so PFS is just messing with everything.

How do you know your cortisol is insensitive? Is it high on bloods? I do not recommend blocking 5ar btw, does it leave you worse off?

Hi. Yeah, you're right, I screwed up before that.

I'll try to describe the chain of events, just to give you a general idea.

Initially, where it started. Tonsillitis + antibiotics -> chronic tonsillitis, pharyngitis, enlarged cervical lymph nodes and POIS.

In POIS, in addition to the typical symptoms, hair loss, eyebrow loss + terrible itching started.

Then, 4 years later. Finasteride (2 months) -> SSRIs (1 pill) -> neuroleptic (half a year) -> amitriptyline (half a year) -> while on ami, took finasteride (1 pill)

From the last tablet of finasteride and started hypersensitivity.

All this, prescribed by doctors, for understanding. The story is long, many symptoms, failures. Of course, if anyone wants to listen, I can describe)

For all time, libido has not shaken, on the contrary, hypersexuality, this is still with POIS stretches.

As you already realize, finasteride 1 pill, rather got rather than caused it all. But still, understanding more exactly how fin does it would give more insight.

The person above said he had it from an infection, which is interesting. I don't quite understand, an infection somehow, has to affect the CYP enzymes? Like any autoimmune thing, I suppose. Or are there other pathways by which drug elimination and action could be impaired? Only fat metabolism comes to mind, well, and the GEB.

About the cortisol, yeah, it's high. High and insensitive cortisol, will severely block your HDC, leaving you without histamine, the degree will vary, but you will feel it. Zinc finger solved a lot of things I'm sure just earned GR. Also tried dexa for a week and later it got worse, more stress, more inflammation.

Cortisol lowers my testosterone and estrogen. When cortisol goes up, I get instant joint inflammation. When it drops, the joints go away and I get inflammation of my teeth and gums, which is already a histamine moment. Androgens exacerbate that.

I feel better on the 5ARI. I think the point is that 5ARI gives me more testosterone, which goes into aramatase and estrogen. Yeah, I know 5ARI isn't the best idea, had it a couple times for a test (not fin, not palm).

Pine pollen, pretty much cures it, but I never figured out if it's due to testosterone or if it's the 5ARI thing. I've heard it used for AGA, which probably points to 5ARI.

I'll read your journal)

 

[Resurection]

Good informative posts in this thread @Resurection. I will get back to you after I catch up on work and studies/ when I’m not stoned.

No problem man)

 

[merebalacy]

Hi. Yeah, you're right, I screwed up before that.

I'll try to describe the chain of events, just to give you a general idea.

Initially, where it started. Tonsillitis + antibiotics -> chronic tonsillitis, pharyngitis, enlarged cervical lymph nodes and POIS.

In POIS, in addition to the typical symptoms, hair loss, eyebrow loss + terrible itching started.

Then, 4 years later. Finasteride (2 months) -> SSRIs (1 pill) -> neuroleptic (half a year) -> amitriptyline (half a year) -> while on ami, took finasteride (1 pill)

From the last tablet of finasteride and started hypersensitivity.

All this, prescribed by doctors, for understanding. The story is long, many symptoms, failures. Of course, if anyone wants to listen, I can describe)

For all time, libido has not shaken, on the contrary, hypersexuality, this is still with POIS stretches.

As you already realize, finasteride 1 pill, rather got rather than caused it all. But still, understanding more exactly how fin does it would give more insight.

The person above said he had it from an infection, which is interesting. I don't quite understand, an infection somehow, has to affect the CYP enzymes? Like any autoimmune thing, I suppose. Or are there other pathways by which drug elimination and action could be impaired? Only fat metabolism comes to mind, well, and the GEB.

About the cortisol, yeah, it's high. High and insensitive cortisol, will severely block your HDC, leaving you without histamine, the degree will vary, but you will feel it. Zinc finger solved a lot of things I'm sure just earned GR. Also tried dexa for a week and later it got worse, more stress, more inflammation.

Cortisol lowers my testosterone and estrogen. When cortisol goes up, I get instant joint inflammation. When it drops, the joints go away and I get inflammation of my teeth and gums, which is already a histamine moment. Androgens exacerbate that.

I feel better on the 5ARI. I think the point is that 5ARI gives me more testosterone, which goes into aramatase and estrogen. Yeah, I know 5ARI isn't the best idea, had it a couple times for a test (not fin, not palm).

Pine pollen, pretty much cures it, but I never figured out if it's due to testosterone or if it's the 5ARI thing. I've heard it used for AGA, which probably points to 5ARI.

I'll read your journal)

You took quite a concoction of drugs there. It may not be just strictly 'PFS' it may be an imbalance of many mechanisms in your body.
It's generally recommended to get a hair test and jump on a program as fixing the above requires fixing POIS and all the other imbalances you had/have.

Also, there is quite a link between methylation status and POIS, so I recommended getting some testing done via (23andme or ancestry) and some blood tests (b12 + folate) to see if you're deficient anywhere.
Pre-pfs I had issues with POTS, b12 and folate which I think predisposed me to this.

I have significant issues with some medications like you but not all; for antibiotics I am okay, but if I take a small dose of a corticosteroid I am in a hypervigilant state with bad derealisation. I am not entirely sure how to fix this, but balancing your whole system via TEI/ARL may be able to push you in the right direction.

Also what type of symptoms do you have? Can you still get sick, or do you just get a lot of infections instead?

 

[Resurection]

You took quite a concoction of drugs there. It may not be just strictly 'PFS' it may be an imbalance of many mechanisms in your body.
It's generally recommended to get a hair test and jump on a program as fixing the above requires fixing POIS and all the other imbalances you had/have.

Also, there is quite a link between methylation status and POIS, so I recommended getting some testing done via (23andme or ancestry) and some blood tests (b12 + folate) to see if you're deficient anywhere.
Pre-pfs I had issues with POTS, b12 and folate which I think predisposed me to this.

I have significant issues with some medications like you but not all; for antibiotics I am okay, but if I take a small dose of a corticosteroid I am in a hypervigilant state with bad derealisation. I am not entirely sure how to fix this, but balancing your whole system via TEI/ARL may be able to push you in the right direction.

Also what type of symptoms do you have? Can you still get sick, or do you just get a lot of infections instead?

Thank you for your answer and trying to help.

Looks like there will be a lot of text again). I want to add that I use a translator and there may be mistakes in the text, so it's not my illiteracy.

That's right, it's not only PFS, it's receptor dysregulation, but finasteride is the basis.

Let me explain.

When I took (2 months) finasteride, I was killing allo, the longer I took it, the more irritable I was and conjunctivitis (histamine) appeared. It was also shutting down my liver.

Then, I was prescribed SSRI, I drank it and had a reaction, it was panic, I couldn't take a full breath, there were muscle clamps and other more minor symptoms. The problem was that all these symptoms were 24/7, the panic literally wouldn't go away. So I was prescribed a neuroleptic. The funny thing is that when the panic attack started, literally at the same moment my hair started to grow back, I'm not kidding). So far, I have attributed this to the fact that the 5ht2a receptor increases the activity of PGE2 by 200%, this prostoglandin is necessary for hair growth on the head, it is also increased by estrogen (ERa).

What I'm getting at is, finasteride created a situation where I got these reactions from 1 pill of SSRI and that stuck in the body. In POIS I could take anything and eat anything, never had a problem with it and if it wasn't for the fin, I wouldn't have had these reactions to SSRI.

After the neuroleptic, there were some serious symptoms too. The most basic one, I couldn't physically fall asleep, my body wouldn't let me. As soon as I fell asleep, I would immediately be jolted out of sleep. Eventually I would make multiple attempts and fall asleep, but I would only sleep for 1 hour and I would lose hemoglobin in my sleep. I know how that sounds but that's what it was lol.

In 5 days of sleeping like that, from 142 points, my hemoglobin dropped to 93. Had to take a neuroleptic again later, which stabilized the condition, suggesting receptor dysregulation. And then I had to switch to another drug because it turned out that this particular neuroleptic affected the heart - thioridazine.

I'm telling you this because finasteride disrupts the allopregnenolone/GABA system. GABA and allo are needed for receptor regulation and neurotransmission. In POIS, GABA was already impaired, but finasteride permanently messed it up. Hence the inadequate receptor regulation.

On amitriptyline, I took a zinc finger, that pretty much solved everything. At that point I was back to POIS state, before all the stuff I was taking. This also points to finasteride, as finasteride disrupts the cysteine, histidine and zinc system. In my case, the cysteine is fine, the problem is histidine and zinc and the enzymes that depend on them.

As a bottom line, yes, there are changes beyond finasteride, but PFS is the main problem here. I have many symptoms from PFS - fat loss on my skin, collagen loss, low hormones, uncontrolled stress, systemic inflammation, gum recession, etc. I think all the symptoms that people are discussing, I had and have.

No, I can't get sick, just covid. I haven't gotten sick in 7 years, since the beginning of POIS. High NADPH Oxidase does that. But I have chronic pharyngitis and reactive lymph nodes in my neck, suggesting some sort of infection, they don't hurt, often shrink and enlarge.

Yes, I have low methylation since POIS. Antibiotics, wastes folic acid, I think my POIS is either low methylation or an infection in my throat (fungus/bacteria/maybe reactivation of herpes type 6).

I was looking at labs not too long ago and there was a dip in folate and high homocysteine. The problem with the methylation is that when I take methyldonors or TMG, I get the post-SSRI symptom coming back - I choke, can't take a breath and at some point it starts to hurt in the liver area. I believe it is either high serotonin due to previously inhibited SERT (SSRI). Either norepinephrine which is constricting, but possibly respiratory alkalosis as well. Even spinach (folate) causes this and beets (TMG).

Regarding TEI and ARL. Yes, I know those companies. But I'm at zero, bro). I've wasted a lot of money in all this time, on stupid doctors, on their stupid tests that made everything worse. If I knew I had POIS back then, I would be running a marathon right now. But I only started finding out about everything when I took the last finasteride pill, too bad.

At this point, I need to figure out what this drug reaction is related to, because whatever I'm taking, with this reaction, it won't work. If I have a concrete system, I can figure out a lot of things for my case.

 

[merebalacy]

It’s okay, keep the long posts going. I think you should transition this post into a log or diary.

Conjunctivitis is histamine? Do you mean allergic conjunctivitis? I also had that. Side note, I got keratitis immediately coming off finasteride, shit drug.

‘If I knew I had POIS back then I’ll be running a marathon’ You shouldn’t beat yourself up for this, it’s not fair on you at all. You can still start that marathon, there is a lot of information about POIS here especially from Helen. I’m sure this’ll be a small setback that ultimately puts you in a better position health wise than if you never got PFS.

‘The problem with the methylation is that when I take methyldonors or TMG, I get the post-SSRI symptom coming back - I choke, can't take a breath and at some point it starts to hurt in the liver area.’

- I think it’s better to determine your methylation status first here. I remember a guy who had quite bad neurological and mental symptoms in PFS, he had holes in his methylation and every time he would eat foods dense in folate he would go absolutely crazy, he couldn’t even recognise his family members. In the end he cured PFS and his lifelong brain fog, supplementing methyl folate + CDnuts.

TEI/ARL is if you are at zero btw, there is a reason why it’s suggested here as the only treatment for PFS. It’ll help stabilise you to allow yourself to respond better to things.

 

[Resurection]

It’s okay, keep the long posts going. I think you should transition this post into a log or diary.

Conjunctivitis is histamine? Do you mean allergic conjunctivitis? I also had that. Side note, I got keratitis immediately coming off finasteride, shit drug.

‘If I knew I had POIS back then I’ll be running a marathon’ You shouldn’t beat yourself up for this, it’s not fair on you at all. You can still start that marathon, there is a lot of information about POIS here especially from Helen. I’m sure this’ll be a small setback that ultimately puts you in a better position health wise than if you never got PFS.

‘The problem with the methylation is that when I take methyldonors or TMG, I get the post-SSRI symptom coming back - I choke, can't take a breath and at some point it starts to hurt in the liver area.’

- I think it’s better to determine your methylation status first here. I remember a guy who had quite bad neurological and mental symptoms in PFS, he had holes in his methylation and every time he would eat foods dense in folate he would go absolutely crazy, he couldn’t even recognise his family members. In the end he cured PFS and his lifelong brain fog, supplementing methyl folate + CDnuts.

TEI/ARL is if you are at zero btw, there is a reason why it’s suggested here as the only treatment for PFS. It’ll help stabilise you to allow yourself to respond better to things.

It's okay, bro. I described it all to make it clear why I think PFS is key here. I understand a lot of the mechanisms and basically know what I'm dealing with.

The problem with hypersensitivity is no confidence in the theory. I haven't been able to have any effect on it from a practical standpoint, so I can't find a path for myself. So I decided to ask people on the forum, their thoughts, ideas in addition to my own. As they say 1 head is good and a whole forum is great)

I know gbold. This guy was on poiscenter. Pretty smart guy, but his advice on TEI and ARL, although it gave relief to people, I haven't heard that it cured anyone of these syndromes. No POIS, no PFS, I could be wrong. He also treated someone I know for POIS. I'm not trying to say he's cheating, just that we are dealing with something that minerals can't fix or aren't enough, as the body is made up of many more minerals than we operate on today and we need to look at the balance of them all.

You misunderstand when I talk about respiratory problems, I am more talking about it as a nuisance that keeps me from fixing my methylation problem rather than the side effects that increased methylation causes. This problem has been caused in various ways. The issue here is that methylation increases SAMe, and SAMe inhibits SERT, DAT, and NET, which increases serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. SSRI does the same thing, it inhibits SERT. And this breathing problem started right after taking the SSRI. It's either norepinephrine (a1 receptor narrowing) or serotonin (which can also narrow and cause hyperventilation), or these neurotransmitters are a consequence of something else, like respiratory alkalosis. So until I fix the breathing, I can't fix the methylation, that's what I mean.

Я дам вам пример: Reddit - Dive into anything

You can see that there are plenty of people like this and all probably have different causes. I have no problem getting over the shortness of breath, but the effects of methylfolate build up, to chest crunches when trying to inhale. One guy, broke his 4 ribs that way, increasing methylation and as you realize, that's a serious risk)

I've tried adding cofactors and electrolytes. There's not much difference. It's easy to remove this status too, nicotinamide or folic acid, which kills methylation, but then the whole process is lost)

I have determined the status itself, it is low - high homocysteine, low folic acid, lots of histamine.

Yes, histamine-induced allergic conjunctivitis. Happens every time after orgasm. You give her copper, it gradually goes away. Developed on finasteride the first time I took it.

I also want to share a method I recommended to an acquaintance with PFS. I'm not suggesting it, I'm just sharing information. I hypothesized that taking away AR expression and increasing 5ar expression might do the opposite of what finasteride did. Told an acquaintance the theory, he decided to give it a try and cured his PFS. Berberine + cystanche. Berberine will destroy AR and cystanche will strongly induce 5 alpha, probably all will depend on testosterone levels still as cystanche will waste it and take it away from estrogen. I wrote above that I was destroying AR through berberine, that was when I wanted to try this method too, but raising 5 alpha and lowering estrogene inflames me a lot and unfortunately I didn't follow through. I think can reduce AR through proviron, randro, methyldgt or destroy it through cabergoline, dexamethasone (not recommended) etc. Again, I'm not making treatment recommendations, just information to note.

 

[Resurection]

Hi bud, I am also vastly different to most PFS cases too. I highly relate to the immune stuff - you can see how fucked it was on my log.

If you have these sensitivities from one finasteride tab, then you were quite imbalanced before taking it, that or genetics as MNK said. I've tested the things you've listed and they're okay genetically so PFS is just messing with everything.

How do you know your cortisol is insensitive? Is it high on bloods? I do not recommend blocking 5ar btw, does it leave you worse off?

I wanted to read your journal, but you've restricted it in your profile. Can you provide a link to it?

 

[merebalacy]

It's okay, bro. I described it all to make it clear why I think PFS is key here. I understand a lot of the mechanisms and basically know what I'm dealing with.

The problem with hypersensitivity is no confidence in the theory. I haven't been able to have any effect on it from a practical standpoint, so I can't find a path for myself. So I decided to ask people on the forum, their thoughts, ideas in addition to my own. As they say 1 head is good and a whole forum is great)

I know gbold. This guy was on poiscenter. Pretty smart guy, but his advice on TEI and ARL, although it gave relief to people, I haven't heard that it cured anyone of these syndromes. No POIS, no PFS, I could be wrong. He also treated someone I know for POIS. I'm not trying to say he's cheating, just that we are dealing with something that minerals can't fix or aren't enough, as the body is made up of many more minerals than we operate on today and we need to look at the balance of them all.

You misunderstand when I talk about respiratory problems, I am more talking about it as a nuisance that keeps me from fixing my methylation problem rather than the side effects that increased methylation causes. This problem has been caused in various ways. The issue here is that methylation increases SAMe, and SAMe inhibits SERT, DAT, and NET, which increases serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. SSRI does the same thing, it inhibits SERT. And this breathing problem started right after taking the SSRI. It's either norepinephrine (a1 receptor narrowing) or serotonin (which can also narrow and cause hyperventilation), or these neurotransmitters are a consequence of something else, like respiratory alkalosis. So until I fix the breathing, I can't fix the methylation, that's what I mean.

Я дам вам пример: Reddit - Dive into anything

You can see that there are plenty of people like this and all probably have different causes. I have no problem getting over the shortness of breath, but the effects of methylfolate build up, to chest crunches when trying to inhale. One guy, broke his 4 ribs that way, increasing methylation and as you realize, that's a serious risk)

I've tried adding cofactors and electrolytes. There's not much difference. It's easy to remove this status too, nicotinamide or folic acid, which kills methylation, but then the whole process is lost)

I have determined the status itself, it is low - high homocysteine, low folic acid, lots of histamine.

Yes, histamine-induced allergic conjunctivitis. Happens every time after orgasm. You give her copper, it gradually goes away. Developed on finasteride the first time I took it.

I also want to share a method I recommended to an acquaintance with PFS. I'm not suggesting it, I'm just sharing information. I hypothesized that taking away AR expression and increasing 5ar expression might do the opposite of what finasteride did. Told an acquaintance the theory, he decided to give it a try and cured his PFS. Berberine + cystanche. Berberine will destroy AR and cystanche will strongly induce 5 alpha, probably all will depend on testosterone levels still as cystanche will waste it and take it away from estrogen. I wrote above that I was destroying AR through berberine, that was when I wanted to try this method too, but raising 5 alpha and lowering estrogene inflames me a lot and unfortunately I didn't follow through. I think can reduce AR through proviron, randro, methyldgt or destroy it through cabergoline, dexamethasone (not recommended) etc. Again, I'm not making treatment recommendations, just information to note.

I was under the impression you were newly hit with PFS, which is why my information was so surface-level. I apologise, but my knowledge of everything is really basic so I am afraid I won't be able to help you.
TEI/ARL has indeed helped people, you can find quite a few logs here that show that. @RebelWithACause thread for example.

I'll send you the link to my log, I don't really know why you cannot see it.

 

[RebelWithACause]

TEI and ARL I think could work though but needs to be done at least 5 years or something. Which is a big trust to put into something like that. But I do believe it.

For me I was very sick and still now have some issues. I had hypothyroidism my whole life from young age. Never had normal methylation probably. Severe issues. Weak puberty too. Typical POIS person Gbolduev used to talk about who had no hormones his whole life.

I've also met people who were healthier and they got way better quicker. Incl. people in PFS. for example on cdsnuts you had Atticas who never had loss of libido still had a normal-ish life and I think he even dated a girl. I've read more of those on here and on swolesource. I could barely get out of bed nor get any erection or even be social. Lol. Huge difference. And there's a ton of both groups in PFS sphere

Then on the other extreme you have paddy going competely mental making crazy videos he has zero libido, shrinkage, etc.. I was similar to him. I had close to a psychotic break. Why such big differences.

That's why I think PFS is not a syndrome. There's too much difference in how bad and how good some are. It's like a world of difference. But people come together because they all used finasteride.

Not saying it's a fake disease. But the way we describe it and talk about it is wrong I think. I see a lot of people here they all sound like they had hypothyroid/low metabolism problems which also cause hairloss. For me what always made me better over time is raising metabolism and keeping it raised. But it causes severe crashes if you have been hypothyroid for long because you start to eliminate toxic metals, drugs, etc.

I think finasteride raises metabolism like Gbolduev said. That's why I kind of felt good in some regard. Except you do miss the DHT feeling of calmness/manliness. I had no libido either. And in long term felt like I got hypo on finasteride. Which makes me think of that "low 5AR mimics hypothyroidism" post by haidut.

 

[TubZy]

Thanks for the post dude.)

There's nothing wrong with genetics, this problem came right after taking a finasteride pill. Within 10-15 minutes. Of course it could be a mutation or epigenetics for example, but so far it's doubtful.

There were already suggestions that finasteride closes NADP. Low NADP inhibits PXR, which eventually leads to suppression of CYP3a4. Glycoprotein P, also depends on PXR, its role is to take toxins from tissues and push them to exit. All of this happens in both the liver and the intestine.

I came to the same conclusion as gbold. He also added the glutathione part, which is needed for phase 2 detoxification. But glutathione is difficult for me, in that I don't feel it in any way, no NAC, no antioxidants, no amino acids, absolute 0.

Actually, there is a suggestion that this is why dexamethasone, St. John's wort, vitamin D, rampamycin and cured people with PFS, PSSD. They're all CYP3a4 agonists and they're supposed to get the drugs out of the body. It's the strangest coincidence that all these drugs have cured people. A guy walks in the sun, 10,000 steps a day and cures PFS, funny.

There's just theories that it's autoimmunity, a leaky GEB, epigenetics. And it's confounding.

My problem is insensitive cortisol, which strongly inhibits HDC. When cortisol rises, I literally lose all histamine, its 0. I can watch porn, the body will raise cortisol and immediately all desire and arousal is gone, even though a second ago I was wildly aroused, funny. This is also why I have reactions to chemicals like soap, toothpaste, because the body requires histamine for an allergic reaction. But histidine, although it detoxifies, it is not the cause of drug reactions. I tested this point, on low cortisol I have a lot of histamine and I assume histidine since methylation is low.

I was messing around with androgens, taking proviron at a dose of 200, for about a month. I lost arousal and had difficulty reaching orgasm, but took away the inflammation. Loss of orgasms, it's probably noradrenaline, you give tyrosine a drop and everything works, but later on inflammation again. So not sure about androgens. I've had the same way of breaking them down and rebuilding them, which resulted in about the same thing. For me the drop in test and consequent estrogen is the main point.

On the starvation thing, yes, good point. I've tried it but it makes me worse, cortisol and norepinephrine rises on it. It was still weight then, now I've lost a lot of weight and can't afford it. I also can't eat fats, I get severe inflammation and dizziness, almost to the point of fainting, which just hints at liver, bile or pancreas, so a diet with fats is torture for me.

I also know that many people with PFS react strangely to medications. A lot of people can have a stronger reaction than expected and malfunctions. That's why I want to understand, it's not just about the reaction itself, it's about a lot of things.

There's an enzyme called POR (PORD) . It works on NADPH. People who are deficient in this enzyme get similar symptoms to PFS, including a change, a shrinking of the penis. This is an interesting point that suggests a failure in NADPH. Perhaps we all have, initially, a G6PD enzyme load or a problem in G6P.

Mefipristone, please describe in more detail, what were the symptoms on it, how did you feel and how long does it take to recover? I want to understand roughly what to expect from it, as for me, blocking cortisol is a teething problem.

Copy/pasting a quote from gbol from a very long thread. The AR and GR (cortisol receptor) are connected so they both get upregulated which was also my personal experience as well.



Copper needs to be available all the time. otherwise it will cause crazy thing like depression serotonin inhibition in the brain/

Those people who take SSRI all copper toxic like you read about. in the brain. And they take SSRI and biovailable copper goes down completely.


This is why in PFS we have high progesterone in people. There is something in the body which is wasting potassium. cortisol is doing it.

And progesterone is raised to oppose that.


If we effect cortisol receptors, then the waster will be gone, and progesterone will retain potassium and go down.

Once potassium goes up in the cell. the LH starts up. and you get testosterone and estrogen. this is when iron and copper become available.


This is why in PFS you see closed down LH in people. the body just stopped the production of hormones

Since it cant raise estrogen without potassium in the cell. And without estrogen you wont feel any libido.


this is why I rec'd taking testosterone and progesterone to by pass the LH.


taking testosterone alone= DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It just bypasses the LH and increases estrogen in the low potassium state. WHICH SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN))

this is why Joe when started to take testosterone would never be able to handle it. without progesterone. Since it will cause crazy anxiety)) and the more you will be on it, the more anxiety will get.

And many people took testosterone also and cant handle it in PFS. since taking testosterone = taking FIN> You are wasting potassium

What fin does, it lowers DHT and increases estrogen. boom hair grows. but it kills potassium. You are running higher estrogen in low potassium State))

Then you quit fin, DHT goes back up, but there is no potassium and boom a HUGE SHUT down.)) Since DHT will WASTE THE POTASSIUM.


So fin upregulates AR receptors and cortisol receptors. and wastes potassium

After you quit the drug. you have upregulated cortisol action and zero potassium at the same time.

So progesterone has to rise.



Same things happens in Conn's disease or Cushings . exactly the same thing,

in Conn's aldosterone is raised and wastes potassium like crazy. And the body has to raise progesterone to oppose it. And you have zero libido

And in cushings , it is the same. cortisol is raised uncontrollable and this wastes potassium since cortisol and aldo both potassium wasters.

and the body has to raise progesterone to oppose this.


I had Cushings myself. I had an adenoma secreting cortisol. And My progesterone was always raised and I had PFS all the time.

When I got rid of adenoma. My progesterone fell within a month, since it managed to retain potassium and the levels of progesterone FELL.

And sex drive went up like crazy and estrogen and test and DHT all went up. and LH went up.


As you can see PFS is the same thing. but in PFS there are cortisol receptors which are screwed. not the adenoma.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I also felt finasteride lowers cortisol & DHT, not just DHT. Or at least the effect of cortisol. Maybe because fin blocks also cortisol downstream conversions. I felt slower on finasteride in every way.

Pretty sure Helen also talked about it sometimes. I felt slower metabolism on finasteride but more estrogen. The idea finasteride raises metabolism I think is flawed unless you have genetically insanely high DHT. Which then DHT is the thing that bottlenecks your metabolism. But for most people I doubt it.

Normally in higher metabolism you get high estrogen, higher cortisol, etc. So the body chemistry you get with finasteride is just weird. Probably why it's perfect for hairloss. But I never felt good on it except in the sweet spot which is insanely hard to get right and stable. Almost impossible. Plus you do miss the DHT feeling even in sweet spot there is something different from when I now feel good without fin. DHT is good when it is not out of control but high enough to have good effect

So if fin lowers/blocks cortisol too could be both androgen receptors and cortisol receptors are overly sensitive. Probably why I freaked out so much after quitting I felt like I had insanely high cortisol + insane rage (high androgen action). Now when my DHT gets too high I also get low libido. Its very similar to PFS but like 1% strength. Same for when my cortisol gets really high. But PFS for me was the COMBO of those two.

 

[Resurection]

TEI and ARL I think could work though but needs to be done at least 5 years or something. Which is a big trust to put into something like that. But I do believe it.

For me I was very sick and still now have some issues. I had hypothyroidism my whole life from young age. Never had normal methylation probably. Severe issues. Weak puberty too. Typical POIS person Gbolduev used to talk about who had no hormones his whole life.

I've also met people who were healthier and they got way better quicker. Incl. people in PFS. for example on cdsnuts you had Atticas who never had loss of libido still had a normal-ish life and I think he even dated a girl. I've read more of those on here and on swolesource. I could barely get out of bed nor get any erection or even be social. Lol. Huge difference. And there's a ton of both groups in PFS sphere

Then on the other extreme you have paddy going competely mental making crazy videos he has zero libido, shrinkage, etc.. I was similar to him. I had close to a psychotic break. Why such big differences.

That's why I think PFS is not a syndrome. There's too much difference in how bad and how good some are. It's like a world of difference. But people come together because they all used finasteride.

Not saying it's a fake disease. But the way we describe it and talk about it is wrong I think. I see a lot of people here they all sound like they had hypothyroid/low metabolism problems which also cause hairloss. For me what always made me better over time is raising metabolism and keeping it raised. But it causes severe crashes if you have been hypothyroid for long because you start to eliminate toxic metals, drugs, etc.

I think finasteride raises metabolism like Gbolduev said. That's why I kind of felt good in some regard. Except you do miss the DHT feeling of calmness/manliness. I had no libido either. And in long term felt like I got hypo on finasteride. Which makes me think of that "low 5AR mimics hypothyroidism" post by haidut.

I apologize for the late reply, for some reason, I wasn't receiving notifications and didn't see your post earlier.

I think the issue isn't that TEI isn't working, it's more likely that trying to supply minerals through it is pointless when we have serious gastrointestinal problems. All these supplements simply cannot be absorbed and function properly.

I agree that people look at PFS incorrectly, thinking it's some kind of separate syndrome, but finasteride is extremely toxic for people like us. So yes, on one hand, we had pre-existing problems that led to this, but on the other hand, if we hadn't taken this drug, we wouldn't have developed such severe dysfunctions.

To be honest, I don't think that metabolism is the key link here. We see people with different metabolism and oxidation, in my case it is fast, potassium worsens, calcium helps, there is no estrogen, there is a lot of inflammation. So it's likely to affect the symptoms, but it won't be a factor in getting this syndrome.

 

[Resurection]

Copy/pasting a quote from gbol from a very long thread. The AR and GR (cortisol receptor) are connected so they both get upregulated which was also my personal experience as well.



Copper needs to be available all the time. otherwise it will cause crazy thing like depression serotonin inhibition in the brain/

Those people who take SSRI all copper toxic like you read about. in the brain. And they take SSRI and biovailable copper goes down completely.


This is why in PFS we have high progesterone in people. There is something in the body which is wasting potassium. cortisol is doing it.

And progesterone is raised to oppose that.


If we effect cortisol receptors, then the waster will be gone, and progesterone will retain potassium and go down.

Once potassium goes up in the cell. the LH starts up. and you get testosterone and estrogen. this is when iron and copper become available.


This is why in PFS you see closed down LH in people. the body just stopped the production of hormones

Since it cant raise estrogen without potassium in the cell. And without estrogen you wont feel any libido.


this is why I rec'd taking testosterone and progesterone to by pass the LH.


taking testosterone alone= DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It just bypasses the LH and increases estrogen in the low potassium state. WHICH SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN))

this is why Joe when started to take testosterone would never be able to handle it. without progesterone. Since it will cause crazy anxiety)) and the more you will be on it, the more anxiety will get.

And many people took testosterone also and cant handle it in PFS. since taking testosterone = taking FIN> You are wasting potassium

What fin does, it lowers DHT and increases estrogen. boom hair grows. but it kills potassium. You are running higher estrogen in low potassium State))

Then you quit fin, DHT goes back up, but there is no potassium and boom a HUGE SHUT down.)) Since DHT will WASTE THE POTASSIUM.


So fin upregulates AR receptors and cortisol receptors. and wastes potassium

After you quit the drug. you have upregulated cortisol action and zero potassium at the same time.

So progesterone has to rise.



Same things happens in Conn's disease or Cushings . exactly the same thing,

in Conn's aldosterone is raised and wastes potassium like crazy. And the body has to raise progesterone to oppose it. And you have zero libido

And in cushings , it is the same. cortisol is raised uncontrollable and this wastes potassium since cortisol and aldo both potassium wasters.

and the body has to raise progesterone to oppose this.


I had Cushings myself. I had an adenoma secreting cortisol. And My progesterone was always raised and I had PFS all the time.

When I got rid of adenoma. My progesterone fell within a month, since it managed to retain potassium and the levels of progesterone FELL.

And sex drive went up like crazy and estrogen and test and DHT all went up. and LH went up.


As you can see PFS is the same thing. but in PFS there are cortisol receptors which are screwed. not the adenoma.

Thank you for the answer and that quote. I have already thought about something similar, but in my case, it's not as he describes. He only described one of the possibilities.

My crash didn't happen after discontinuation, the crash occurred during the intake itself, so considering receptor regulation in my case doesn't make sense.

But indeed, there is an imbalance favoring DHT and a drop in testosterone and estrogen, which likely prevents copper from functioning. In my case, this is related not to potassium but to inflammation.

The body, as it were, increases cortisol and lowers testosterone, and since the inflammation is bacterial, it activates NOS. As a result, there is a lot of iNOS, which requires androgens. Therefore, what little testosterone there is goes to DHT, estrogen drops even lower, and copper cannot rise.

According to tests, progesterone and potassium are normal.

Some people have low cortisol, which does not fit with the theory of potassium loss by cortisol itself.

Regarding mifepristone, I tried it, it increases GR and this improves many aspects, but temporarily the body downregulates the receptor again after orgasm.

As far as I remember, you had a case with low acidity. It seems to me that HCL and chloride helped you a lot. As I said to another person above, we are severely lacking proper GI tract function to recover. I assume the key moment for you was that you got the bile flowing through Randro and provided acid, and the body was able to take everything it needed (methylation, amino acids, vitamins, etc.) to fix itself. Otherwise, if you were rebuilding homeostasis, you would feel worse and only then better, but in your case, everything gradually improved as you stuck to your protocol. Just an assumption)