Accutane recoveries using Finasteride

[IHateFin]

I wonder what drove this doctor to use fin to fight post accutaine and would he be willing to contribute to this forum?

 

[IHateFin]

Should have added since accutane is retinoic acid, it increases your progesterone levels greatly while taking it, so you get clear. But this increases the receptors, and causes the progesterone sensitivity issues post accutane, which locks potassium sky high in cells, then you have post accutane syndrome(issues with prog, cortisol, thyroid...).

My hair tests showed this, and got great results doing a short 3 day fast with high dose Prog in August. I am testing this theory again this week, with a proper longer water fast, and a bigger dose of Prog during. I don't think I applied it right in Aug, and didn't break that fast with proper nutrition.

So having too sensitive prog receptors is also a bad thing? Hmm very interesting.

 

[Aleksandr]

[quote="5 alpha" post_id=1725 time=1508282849 user_id=57]

Yeah I think finasteride is a powerful progestin that is unable to be metabolized into nuerosteroids n such. This is some very interesting info tho. I know we are on the right track as far as what causes these illnesses now it's a matter of stirring the pot just right so that you bounce back just right.

yes sir! imagine that if this is the solution. and for years we have been tricked to go down a rabbit hole looking into 5ar...

that's some sneaky stuff...

Dude seriously!

I bet that if we could take a few smart biochemists, this forum and gboldev and create a diagram of accutain, ssris and finasteride and have a column of every single thing or enzyme and receptor each of them affects and how they affect them we can probs connect the dots and have answers on why fin kills post accutain and if the inverse could truely be a cure for PFS
[/quote]

its curious - but it doesn't seem like accutane has the same effects on everyone.
i took 3 rounds of it. each time, it helped my acne further. i now have very little pimples if any. actually i've been getting a few random pimples pop up now following gbolds ideas.

my main problem with accutane has been dry eyes (and perhaps lower hormones but this is speculation). Also Orion and I (both accutane users) have almost the opposite hair analysis results - i.e. my magnesium is lower, his is higher, etc.

So it seems that accutane worked for me - maybe too well, as its dried out my eyes permanently too. It hasn't seemed to work for Orions skin problems, and perhaps caused a 'snap back' to even more acne. How do we know if it will work for a person or cause an even worse snap back problem? There seems to be more to the story...

However, if you have Orion type symptoms maybe this works for that? In my case, dry eyes are not enough for me to want to take finastride after all the horror stories i've heard from you guys.

 

[Aleksandr]

I wonder what drove this doctor to use fin to fight post accutaine and would he be willing to contribute to this forum?

I sent him a message asking about dry eyes, then there was an automated reply saying he had 5 years of backlog of unanswered questions but if you send him money he will answer on that day. Lol. I don't think he will be joining us unfortunately...

 

[IHateFin]

I wonder what drove this doctor to use fin to fight post accutaine and would he be willing to contribute to this forum?

I sent him a message asking about dry eyes, then there was an automated reply saying he had 5 years of backlog of unanswered questions but if you send him money he will answer on that day. Lol. I don't think he will be joining us unfortunately...

holy mother! 5 years of backlog??? yeah that's a hopeless cause. yeah I wouldn't recommend fin to you or orion or anyone, but its just crazy to think that one drug that destroys someone can be the same drug that gives someone their life back. still nuts to wrap my head around. I really wish I knew all the mechanisms for this to happen. so many variables too such as how each of us respond differently, but in theory should affect the same hormones receptors and enzymes I think just some snap back differently than others.

I remember when I first took fin all was good then out of nowhere it caused me to get dht itch like crazy so I stopped fin and tapered off and the dht went away only to came back cuz I was off fin so I started it back up and it was down hill from there. total time taking it was 4 months for me. my body definitely did something to upregulate androgen receptors or something initially but it didn't survive the 2nd round.

so many things I wish I had answers to. I feel like im looking at an easy answer for a cure yet that cure cant be stated due to the complex nature that these drugs affect us through.

 

[5 alpha]

Should have added since accutane is retinoic acid, it increases your progesterone levels greatly while taking it, so you get clear. But this increases the receptors, and causes the progesterone sensitivity issues post accutane, which locks potassium sky high in cells, then you have post accutane syndrome(issues with prog, cortisol, thyroid...).

My hair tests showed this, and got great results doing a short 3 day fast with high dose Prog in August. I am testing this theory again this week, with a proper longer water fast, and a bigger dose of Prog during. I don't think I applied it right in Aug, and didn't break that fast with proper nutrition.

So having too sensitive prog receptors is also a bad thing? Hmm very interesting.

What do you think? having too sensitive receptors probable means the receptors are upregulated and this could be evidenced by low Prog? body keeping prog low in an attempt to adjust to the upregulated receptors. if this is true and seeing that my prog is low I would probable actually In theory want to down regulate my receptors by agonizing them with a prog?

BUT after you further advanced our thinking of this I'm thinking the opposite:

If you are thinking that RU combined with Prog causes RU to antagonize (block) the receptors resulting in the upregulation of receptors than perhaps it makes sense that if you take RU with no prog while you have low prog in your system than this will give nothing for the RU to antagonize (block) which will result in the RU "having no choice" but to agonize (act on the receptors) resulting in them getting down regulated

so after considering all of this info in theory seeing that i have low prog and I'm taking RU with no prog than this will lower my up regulated receptors?

 

[5 alpha]

I wonder what drove this doctor to use fin to fight post accutaine and would he be willing to contribute to this forum?

I sent him a message asking about dry eyes, then there was an automated reply saying he had 5 years of backlog of unanswered questions but if you send him money he will answer on that day. Lol. I don't think he will be joining us unfortunately...

holy mother! 5 years of backlog??? yeah that's a hopeless cause. yeah I wouldn't recommend fin to you or orion or anyone, but its just crazy to think that one drug that destroys someone can be the same drug that gives someone their life back. still nuts to wrap my head around. I really wish I knew all the mechanisms for this to happen. so many variables too such as how each of us respond differently, but in theory should affect the same hormones receptors and enzymes I think just some snap back differently than others.

I remember when I first took fin all was good then out of nowhere it caused me to get dht itch like crazy so I stopped fin and tapered off and the dht went away only to came back cuz I was off fin so I started it back up and it was down hill from there. total time taking it was 4 months for me. my body definitely did something to upregulate androgen receptors or something initially but it didn't survive the 2nd round.

so many things I wish I had answers to. I feel like im looking at an easy answer for a cure yet that cure cant be stated due to the complex nature that these drugs affect us through.

so this doctor is checking his messages daily to see who offers to pay him for info? lol that's nuts. As a forum can we all chip in like $10 and ask if he will come in participate in a thread?

it would be nice actually hearing from the guy who says he took fin for 2 years and recovered?

 

[IHateFin]

[quote="5 alpha" post_id=1748 time=1508291580 user_id=57]

Should have added since accutane is retinoic acid, it increases your progesterone levels greatly while taking it, so you get clear. But this increases the receptors, and causes the progesterone sensitivity issues post accutane, which locks potassium sky high in cells, then you have post accutane syndrome(issues with prog, cortisol, thyroid...).

My hair tests showed this, and got great results doing a short 3 day fast with high dose Prog in August. I am testing this theory again this week, with a proper longer water fast, and a bigger dose of Prog during. I don't think I applied it right in Aug, and didn't break that fast with proper nutrition.

So having too sensitive prog receptors is also a bad thing? Hmm very interesting.

What do you think? having too sensitive receptors probable means the receptors are upregulated and this could be evidenced by low Prog? body keeping prog low in an attempt to adjust to the upregulated receptors. if this is true and seeing that my prog is low I would probable actually In theory want to down regulate my receptors by agonizing them with a prog?

BUT after you further advanced our thinking of this I'm thinking the opposite:

If you are thinking that RU combined with Prog causes RU to antagonize (block) the receptors resulting in the upregulation of receptors than perhaps it makes sense that if you take RU with no prog while you have low prog in your system than this will give nothing for the RU to antagonize (block) which will result in the RU "having no choice" but to agonize (act on the receptors) resulting in them getting down regulated

so after considering all of this info in theory seeing that i have low prog and I'm taking RU with no prog than this will lower my up regulated receptors?
[/quote]

spot on bro!
im thinking that this could very well be the case. I think that having prog receptors too highly regulated could be your issue with your super low progesterone values. maybe if prog receptors are too sensitive the androgen receptors get down regulated. there must be some kind of seesaw effect between the two types of receptors since I think structurally they are similar if im not mistaken.

I agree that maybe letting ru agonize your receptors would be very beneficial.

for someone like me who tested for high prog I would maybe in theory benefit from ru with prog to ensure after my high prog is quickly cleared that my receptors still get antagonized.

its an odd puzzle, but we know progesterone and its receptors are a big component of PFS.

 

[IHateFin]

[quote="5 alpha" post_id=1749 time=1508291999 user_id=57]

I sent him a message asking about dry eyes, then there was an automated reply saying he had 5 years of backlog of unanswered questions but if you send him money he will answer on that day. Lol. I don't think he will be joining us unfortunately...

holy mother! 5 years of backlog??? yeah that's a hopeless cause. yeah I wouldn't recommend fin to you or orion or anyone, but its just crazy to think that one drug that destroys someone can be the same drug that gives someone their life back. still nuts to wrap my head around. I really wish I knew all the mechanisms for this to happen. so many variables too such as how each of us respond differently, but in theory should affect the same hormones receptors and enzymes I think just some snap back differently than others.

I remember when I first took fin all was good then out of nowhere it caused me to get dht itch like crazy so I stopped fin and tapered off and the dht went away only to came back cuz I was off fin so I started it back up and it was down hill from there. total time taking it was 4 months for me. my body definitely did something to upregulate androgen receptors or something initially but it didn't survive the 2nd round.

so many things I wish I had answers to. I feel like im looking at an easy answer for a cure yet that cure cant be stated due to the complex nature that these drugs affect us through.

so this doctor is checking his messages daily to see who offers to pay him for info? lol that's nuts. As a forum can we all chip in like $10 and ask if he will come in participate in a thread?

it would be nice actually hearing from the guy who says he took fin for 2 years and recovered?
[/quote]

if he was highly active on our forum this forum would EXPLODE haha

two years of fin probs was more than he needed but its remarkable nonetheless. I almost wish I had post Accutane rn instead of PFS haha id pop some fin if that were my situation

 

[jacknap]

seems highly suspect...

I don't know many pfs seems to have more full recoveries than post accutane from what I've seen.

my situation is weird cuz I got basically the worst PFS symptoms + more but I seem to be recovering a lot faster than most sufferers too. It's weird cuz I only found 1 other case where a guy crashed like me from ru58841 and the guy literally only has one post on the internet.

 

[jacknap]

I used to use retin-a before I crashed from RU58841 as well. I did up my dose of retin-a a month before using the anti androgen but I don't think retin-a has a syndrome like accutane. I wonder though

I also was using a shampoo that had saw palmetto in it and nizoral and minoxidil. None of that stuff bothered me at all though. Although I think I did notice like a little 10% drop in libido after showering. might've been the shampoo or nizoral not sure.

I was also using krill oil for brain health which has astaxanthin which is potent dht inhibitor as well.

kratom also lowered my libido to similar levels of what it was post crash a year ago and I panicked that it was the minox but it was the kratom and my libido came back after like a week or two.

I'm like 90% sure the RU58841 was the main thing that cause me to crash though.

so many things in my lifestyle were so anti-androgen though + just all the xenoestrogens and stress of modern life fuck.

 

[Helen]

We discussed this before. Finasteride is a progestin, it can act in both directions. Of course it can cure some people.
And yes accutane can cure some cases of PFS. High dose vitamin A also can do that.

Finasteride can act as a receptor blocker and as a receptor agonist. So some people can get cortisol problems and some people can get progesterone problems from it.

When you take RU with progesterone I think you address more of a cortisol problem.

Accutane causes increased progesterone. So in some cases accutane will cause progesterone insensitivity.

If finasteride can block progesterone for a while, then when you come off, you get more sensitive progesterone. Same as Ella I guess.

So in these cases here PFS, PSSD, Accutane. Can play out both ways for each person.

And you need to try

For accutane people , PFS, PSSD

1) ella
2) finasteride
3) RU longer cycle
4) RU short cycle with progesterone
5) high doses progesterone
6) dexamethasone cycles


I think PSSD PFS POIS accutane are all a little different. But the cure for each of them is among these 6 that I outlined above.

The only thing is for people to find what works for them. I think it is easy to check. You go on one for 1 day, and then come off and see what is happening. if you are improving on the actual come off then you are good. You need to improve on the come off not while you are on the drug.

When Ihate fin took RU, he was improving afterwards. He took RU with progesterone, I think this left RU acting on cortisol mostly. And I think I hatefin has insensitive cortisol in his case.

 

[Helen]

Guys I want to warn you , that sometimes you look at other peoples recoveries, and you mix PSSD with post finasteride and accutane. They all have slightly different mechanism. Beware that all these people who took one of these drugs they could have reacted to this substance differently.

That is why if someone with PSSD takes Ella and gets cured. It does not mean it will work for someone with PFS or POIS or ever for another person with PSSD. It could be quite the opposite really.


I think we will figure out all the cases soon and have a huge recovery plan for everyone. But as of now we clearly see that people react to drugs differently .

So far I noticed 2 reactions. Ella was favorable for PSSD, and RU with progesterone was favorable for PFS.

Ella blocked progesterone for PSSD people, and RU with progesterone blocked mostly cortisol for PFS person.

We need more tests and different trials.

But I am sure that pretty much everyone will be cured using above 6 methods.

The only thing left to find out which case you are.

 

[Helen]

Also I wanted to point out, it seems depo provera effects MR receptors also very strongly. And I think this is where licorice comes into play. Estrogen raises sodium in the cell. So if sodium is already high , estrogen cant become sensitive.

Licorice lowers aldosterone sensitivity and when you get off, sodium actually falls and estrogen is raised which makes DHT sensitivie

antagonizing or agonizing progesterone can do the same thing. Since progesterone effects potassium. And if potassium is high aldosterone becomes supersensitive and if potassium is low aldosterone becomes super insensitive.

So you can say also that progesterone screw up, effects aldosterone sensitivity afterwards which does not allow DHT to work

I basically outline this connection in the theory before. But I think we need to concentrate on this also.

 

[Shadow]

[mention]gbolduev[/mention] , on pssdforum we have some women with the problem, one tried ella and it did nothing, my guess is that the problem is in the dosage, I dont know much about, but since we are dealing with hormones... what are your thoughts?

 

[wuf]

We discussed this before. Finasteride is a progestin, it can act in both directions. Of course it can cure some people.
And yes accutane can cure some cases of PFS. High dose vitamin A also can do that.

Finasteride can act as a receptor blocker and as a receptor agonist. So some people can get cortisol problems and some people can get progesterone problems from it.

When you take RU with progesterone I think you address more of a cortisol problem.

Accutane causes increased progesterone. So in some cases accutane will cause progesterone insensitivity.

If finasteride can block progesterone for a while, then when you come off, you get more sensitive progesterone. Same as Ella I guess.

So in these cases here PFS, PSSD, Accutane. Can play out both ways for each person.

And you need to try

For accutane people , PFS, PSSD

1) ella
2) finasteride
3) RU longer cycle
4) RU short cycle with progesterone
5) high doses progesterone
6) dexamethasone cycles


I think PSSD PFS POIS accutane are all a little different. But the cure for each of them is among these 6 that I outlined above.

The only thing is for people to find what works for them. I think it is easy to check. You go on one for 1 day, and then come off and see what is happening. if you are improving on the actual come off then you are good. You need to improve on the come off not while you are on the drug.

When Ihate fin took RU, he was improving afterwards. He took RU with progesterone, I think this left RU acting on cortisol mostly. And I think I hatefin has insensitive cortisol in his case.

I am wondering why we are experimenting new protocols since you got cured yourself by using clomid, zinc etc...
I mean that is a procedure you know well since yourself used it, so why not give a try to it first instead of bet on something never tested before?
Plus [mention]gbolduev[/mention] I am curious to know if you really got cured because of the clomid protocol you used or if you got cured just naturally since you got fine in just 2 months... I mean, are you sure your recovery was depending from the clomid protocol and not by your body healing itself?

 

[vicecaz]

Everyone's definitely hit differently by those drugs.
For example with accutane, there is some that " only " suffers from dry eyes, dry skin, joint pain. Some will only have depression, headaches.. Some willl have ED, libido loss, but no dry eyes or depression, some will have it all. I noticed the same pathway with PFS, as some are hit harder than others .

I can't agree more with gold's post above, the cure for one won't be the cure for everyone. RU could be the answer for one, whereas it didn't do anything for another, we need to figure out what works for our own case

My Post accutane story is a bit weird, as I only " snapped back " in the wrong way like 7/8 months after the last pill:
slight libido loss during and at the end of treatment, changes in emotional behavior, tiredness, dry eyes but nothing significant, then 5 months after the last pill my body tried to readjust, emotions came back, libido was insane, some pimples were back, I was feeling great . Over the following weeks it went down, like having libido/urge only once a week, and two months later I completely crashed with ED, 0 libido, anhedonia, drier eyes than ever, not a single pimple in my skin , the list goes on

I was in Japan for a year at this time, so I dont know if the stress induced, or drinking everyday black tea or green tea ( well known DHT blockers ) had a role, but I personally doubt it

Also as jacknap's mentioned earlier, there is far more PFS recoveries story than Post accutane recoveries. I wouldn't make a big deal of it since most PFS recoveries used CDNUTS protocol or similar protocol while not many tried it after accutane .There is also more post finasteride suferrers than there is with accutane. The only 2/3 that got out of Post accutane mess used Rick Simpson oil ( THC oil ) . cannabinoids changes hormones while and after taking it . Gbold did mention that cannabinoids could lead to PFS to some extent, so this also adds to the snap back theory or this finasteride to cure PFS theory . Unfortunately rick Simpson oil did nothing for me ( taken 5 months )

 

[vicecaz]

Gbold could also add the whole CDNUTS protocol to the list of potential cure. It even match his snap back theory as the rotation of those 20 herbs definitely modulates the whole Progesterone/cortisol/androgen part
Some of those herbs have estrogenic properties ( schisandra,.. ), pine pollen powder/tincture are full of phyto-androgens,tongkat Ali/tribulus amongst many benefits raises testosterone level, ashwagandha plays mainly on cortisol .. This is all simplified, I'm sure there is a lot more about those herbs; they all have different mechanism of actions, that supports or counteracts each other . Lifting weights as he recommend will up regulates androgen receptors in tissue as well as modulating hormones .

The whole protocol need to be followed for as long as it takes . I'm beginning with the water fast the day after tomorrow , 7 days up to 10 if I can make it
I'll have my hormones testing results soon and the hair tests is on its way. I'll probably start a log in the following days/ weeks
I'll decide later if I experiment with RU/Ella

Thanks tubzy and all contributors to make this whole brainstorming possible

 

[Helen]

Vecacaz, Yes of course if pine pollen is a part of Cdnuts protocol, then this is what is helping in it. since it tanks potassium and for some people it will be beneficial I outlined all that in the original theory with many other ways to adjust. the things above are just easier I guess, that is why I did not include all other possibilities. but they are outlined in the original theory. I doubt herbs do anything on cdnuts protocol. I think licorice can effect things and pinepollen.

 

[Aleksandr]

Vecacaz, Yes of course if pine pollen is a part of Cdnuts protocol, then this is what is helping in it. since it tanks potassium and for some people it will be beneficial I outlined all that in the original theory with many other ways to adjust. the things above are just easier I guess, that is why I did not include all other possibilities. but they are outlined in the original theory. I doubt herbs do anything on cdnuts protocol. I think licorice can effect things and pinepollen.

I have high sodium on my hair test, how do I dose licorice?