Accutane recoveries using Finasteride

[Namelk]

guys, I'm on the 17th of finasteride.
I was taking a shower now and today when I was pulling my hair a little, I found that I was getting a lot more hair in my hands and in enough quantity, I think I'm starting to lose "enough" yarn
detail that I take only cold baths for about 6 months, and this is proven to strengthen your skin and your hair ...
There's definitely something going on.

the same happened to the boy who recovered more or less the same days as I, now I ask the same, how a remedy used for hair loss is causing me hair loss? kkkkkkkk this is interesting lol

 

[Ailaeshiz]

@Namelk wishing you the best

 

[MNK99]

@Namelk Finasteride and Minoxidil can often cause shedding.
I don't reccommend this site but:

Hairlosstalk
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[B_D_Acc]

Hey guys post-accutane here as well.

I read the finasteride recoveries a while back as well but they seemed almost too good to be true. Really hopeful it works for you Namelk so keep us posted!

 

[Namelk]

I started to decrease the dose of finasteride today, I'm going to reduce it by another 5-8 days and I should stop

 

[Flynn]

Should have added since accutane is retinoic acid, it increases your progesterone levels greatly while taking it, so you get clear. But this increases the receptors, and causes the progesterone sensitivity issues post accutane, which locks potassium sky high in cells, then you have post accutane syndrome(issues with prog, cortisol, thyroid...).

My hair tests showed this, and got great results doing a short 3 day fast with high dose Prog in August. I am testing this theory again this week, with a proper longer water fast, and a bigger dose of Prog during. I don't think I applied it right in Aug, and didn't break that fast with proper nutrition.

What do you mean by get clear? The thing I don't understand is, progesterone can't act as an antagonist because it is the real hormone and binds to progesterone receptors, activating them. So if accutane use increases progesterone. In response the cell will downregulate the progesterone receptors not upregulate them. So when you come off accutane surely your prog receptors would be low and prog levels high. Im just interested how an accutane user could develop progesterone sensitivity issues? I would like to know as it will help me decide how to treat this. Could high prog and low prog receptors still lead to problems?

Fin only supposedly upregulates prog receptors because it may act as an antagonist. But accutane increases actual progesterone which can only ever act as an agonist on prog receptors.

Also my tests showed I had low DHEAs.

 

[tanedout]

Another update from the guy from the first page of this thread, sounds like he's doing good which is great to hear!

Hey guys
I want to update you about my status. I'm 100% fine.
I can live my life now and I realise how fucked up I was. Feels to good to be true after this mess. My mind is clear I can think normal what means there is no brain damage and I was so confused some days trust me...
I can build muscles fast and my bodyfat has reduced. I don't even eat healthy more like the opposite. One of the best things is the feeling when I listen to some music I get this nice feeling like before accutane but I dont want to talk to much. I hope you all are ok and I wish you the best.

Really is crazy how this has worked, guess he must have been left with down regulated progesterone receptors after tane, then taking fin raised his progesterone levels loads, then he's tapered off and stopped and got the receptors to re-sensitize?

Guess it confirms there is no actual permanent damage to the body, it's just all out of balance, so I think that is a positive to take away from this!

 

[Flynn]

Another update from the guy from the first page of this thread, sounds like he's doing good which is great to hear!



Really is crazy how this has worked, guess he must have been left with down regulated progesterone receptors after tane, then taking fin raised his progesterone levels loads, then he's tapered off and stopped and got the receptors to re-sensitize?

Guess it confirms there is no actual permanent damage to the body, it's just all out of balance, so I think that is a positive to take away from this!

Is this guy from acne.org?? Does he have any reason to be lying? If not this sounds like amazing news!!

 

[Orion]

What do you mean by get clear?

Meaning clear skin.

progesterone can't act as an antagonist because it is the real hormone and binds to progesterone receptors, activating them

Not sure the exact mechanism, but i think accutane can increase or decease the amount of prog receptors, so depending on your body chemistry, you either end up sensitized or DE-sensitized... and this has to do with your body actively dumping all the co-factors in the retinoic pathway, because you are provided the end-point product of the pathway = retinoic acid. You dump; Zinc, B3, B6, Magnesium, Molybdenum, then you either end up with potassium being sky high or tanked low in cells, so insulin issues, thyroid issues, zinc finger issues...

 

[Orion]

Really is crazy how this has worked, guess he must have been left with down regulated progesterone receptors after tane, then taking fin raised his progesterone levels loads, then he's tapered off and stopped and got the receptors to re-sensitize?

Has he posted his actual dosages and scheduled used?

 

[tanedout]

Has he posted his actual dosages and scheduled used?

Yeah he said this (assume the pill is 5mg each);

I took a half pill 10 days then 10 days a full pill and for 5 days a quarter. I wanted to take the 5 mg longer but felt extremly weird so I decided to taper of and stop it.

 

[PAS]

Is this guy from acne.org?? Does he have any reason to be lying? If not this sounds like amazing news!!

Exactly, I want to believe this guy with all I got, but at this point its hard to trust anything and that probably goes for all us, Namelk my man I hope you kill this shit.

 

[Flynn]

Exactly, I want to believe this guy with all I got, but at this point its hard to trust anything and that probably goes for all us, Namelk my man I hope you kill this ****.

It would be a strange thing to lie or troll about to be fair though

 

[Flynn]

Meaning clear skin.



Not sure the exact mechanism, but i think accutane can increase or decease the amount of prog receptors, so depending on your body chemistry, you either end up sensitized or DE-sensitized... and this has to do with your body actively dumping all the co-factors in the retinoic pathway, because you are provided the end-point product of the pathway = retinoic acid. You dump; Zinc, B3, B6, Magnesium, Molybdenum, then you either end up with potassium being sky high or tanked low in cells, so insulin issues, thyroid issues, zinc finger issues...

Thanks for the response. Yes laying out a clear hypothesis for all of this would be really useful. I understand the reasons for re-fuelling the pathway but can't see how this would help libido/sexual function.

I found some interesting articles on retinoic acid and progesterone last night.

Retinol and retinoic acid significantly increased the accumulation of progesterone in rats granulosa cells compared to controls (1). Retinoic acid/all trans-RA (ATRA) increased progesterone production in immature rat granulosa cells by upregulating the levels of steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR) and cytochrome P450scc (Cyp11a1) mRNAs but not 3B-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3B-HSD) mRNA (2).

Another study found that estrogens induce progesterone receptor gene expression whilst progestins and retinoic acid downregulate it (3). Thus it's possible accutane downregulated prog receptors. RA also increases expression of 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 2 (HSD-11B) in human JEG-3 cells, this enzyme is responsible for the inactivation of glucocorticoids (4). So it converts active cortisol to inactive cortisone to prevent over stimulation of the mineral corticoid receptor (5).

From this info, it indicates that after accutane you would definitely have high progesterone, possibly low progesterone receptors (obviously the study relating to retinoic acid downregulating receptors may not apply to us). Could this still lead to the elimination of 3HSD?? and thus castration? From blood tests I also have low DHEA.


Can anyone make sense of this in light of Gbols theory and Fin.

A question I have is, can progesterone really oppose the action of testosterone/DHT? I have heard many claim it can, but can't find much research/proof. The use of depo provera in reducing sex drive for sexual offenders appears to do so, simply by reducing testosterone (can it also block test pathway etc.). If prog was supersensitive/insensitive, how would this prevent test working and affecting my sex drive?

I'm very interested with this, because one question that always confused me. Was that when I took testosterone ethanate, it had no effect on my sex drive/libido (it should have had a big effect). This progesterone theory could be one of the only theories which explains this. If prog really is the problem and it can oppose test. Then it would make sense that exogenous testosterone had no/little effect on my libido.


(1) Lack of difference between retinoic acid and retinol in stimulating progesterone production by luteinizing granulosa cells in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI
(2) https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82171696.pdf
(3) https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/725e/a3d196a78cb5ca2212acb526bf71e1105f3d.pdf
(4) Retinoic Acid Stimulates the Expression of 11 -Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase Type 2 in Human Choriocarcinoma JEG-3 Cells (PDF Download Available)
(5) 11β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase - Wikipedia

 

[PAS]

Yeah, more than lying what I am scared about is that we all have different reactions to the same chemicals ( be it Isotret or fin), so what worked for that guy may destroy us. I know this first hand because I took isotret in 2010.
I had REALLY bad side effects back then.

Back ache so bad that I couldnt sleep, my knees hurt so much that I couldn't run even 4 meters ( no this is not hyperbole). It PROBABLY stunted my growth too, as isotret is similar to Vitamin A and we ODed on it, and Vitamin A OD interferes with bone formation. There are many more side effects but not PAS , I ll probably make a new post to discuss this.

But the point is that I took it again in 2015 thinking that I ll just brave through the side effects again. And then PAS hit. And I got all the side effects in the book this time, only thing is that my back and knees didnt ache that much this time. My thumb started clicking when I was on it though, and it still does. IDK what was the critical factor that made the side effects so much more deadly this time, I was on minoxidil and Ketoconazole ( still am) and depressed that time. As I said, I'll make a new post detailing everything in the hopes that somehthing will shed light on PAS and PFS, no matter how small. But the main point is that what worked for him may not work for us, and we'll probably have no way to find out before trying it ourselves.

 

[Flynn]

Yeah, more than lying what I am scared about is that we all have different reactions to the same chemicals ( be it Isotret or fin), so what worked for that guy may destroy us. I know this first hand because I took isotret in 2010.
I had REALLY bad side effects back then.

Back ache so bad that I couldnt sleep, my knees hurt so much that I couldn't run even 4 meters ( no this is not hyperbole). It PROBABLY stunted my growth too, as isotret is similar to Vitamin A and we ODed on it, and Vitamin A OD interferes with bone formation. There are many more side effects but not PAS , I ll probably make a new post to discuss this. But the point is that I took it again in 2015 thinking that I ll just brave through the side effects again. And then PAS hit. And I got all the side effects in the book this time, only thing is that my back and knees didnt ache that much this time. My thumb started clicking when I was on it though, and it still does. IDK what was the critical factor that made the side effects so much more deadly this time, I was on minoxidil and Ketoconazole ( still am) and depressed that time. As I said, I'll make a new post detailing everything in the hopes that somehthing will shed light on PAS and PFS, no matter how small. But the main point is that what worked for him may not work for us, and we'll probably have no way to find out before trying it ourselves.

Yes I completely understand, but one thing I'm pretty sure of. Is that the mechanism or process by which accutane has given me sexual side effects is almost definitely the same as the way it gave you or anyone else who is suffering from accutane induced sexual sides. Thus if a drug such as Fin does end up proving to cure/treat sexual side effects in other accutane users, I'd be fairly confident it could also fix those issues for me. No doubt, we will all suffer different side effects from taking drugs such as FIN. As such if we both took FIN, you may end up with a side effect such as muscle ache and I may not have that side effect, but its effect on sexual side is likely to be fairly reproducible.

If FIN somehow fixes prog sensitivity etc. through its basic mechanism of action, this is likely to be the case in other people. Though other side effects may vary. It's like if you take antibiotics, they will almost always kill bacteria in both you and I. But you may get headaches whilst taking them whilst I don't. Not a great analogy but I hope you understand what I'm saying.

The main thing is that we build a theory based on evidence and references to explain a possible mechanism for sexual side effects from accutane which is plausible. Then try to detail or figure out how FIN could help treat/reverse that, as @tanedout outlined above. Then it will be a case of weighing potentials risks with potential rewards. If 5 more users try FIN and it does nothing for sexual sides, then I would strongly reconsider it. But if the underlying theory makes sense and anecdotal reports are favourable, then it may be a risk I'd be willing to take at this stage.

 

[Ailaeshiz]

There's a guy in PFS facebook group who took accutane for a year, and then finasteride for 8 years, and ended up with side effects from both. So it definitely not a perfect fix.

 

[Namelk]

Guys
I will take my last pill of finasteride today, completing 28 days, any change I inform you, however I am not feeling anything, not that I noticed at least, only my hair that is falling a little, we will see if something happens after stopping

 

[Flynn]

Guys
I will take my last pill of finasteride today, completing 28 days, any change I inform you, however I am not feeling anything, not that I noticed at least, only my hair that is falling a little, we will see if something happens after stopping

Yes even if taking Fin does not help you at all,please let us know. All information is useful information. Out of interest have you noticed any negative side effects besides the slight hair loss?? Have you felt different mentally in any way? differences in strength/muscle/fitness etc.?

 

[Flynn]

There's a guy in PFS facebook group who took accutane for a year, and then finasteride for 8 years, and ended up with side effects from both. So it definitely not a perfect fix.

Completely agree, taking Fin for 8 years is asking for trouble though. It's possible if he had done a short cycle of fin, the outcome may have been different.