Brainstorming & Ideas (PFS - Gbol)

[namaste]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<t>Increased estrogen is not bad on it's own. The key is whether it is being opposed by progesterone or DHT.</t>

 

[5 alpha]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="AC3C" post_id="66" time="1507136467" user_id="78"><s>

</s>
If someone feels worse when taking progesterone (ie loss of libido) is that a clue as to whether they have agonized or antagonized receptors?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

my understanding is yes it would be a clue as to if they have agonized or antagonized receptors. The logic is that Finastride (a progesterone) severely agonized the receptors causing them to become severely down regulated in most cases. So I guess it's logical to assume that exposing the down regulated receptors with more prog would make you worse.<br/>
<br/>
However the theory than goes on to explain that Finastride (a prog) does not always agonize the receptors and could actually in some people antagonize the receptors causing them to become upregulated.<br/>
<br/>
but to answer the question according to this theory taking prog and getting worse would point towards agonized/down regulated receptors.</r>

 

[BeLikeWater]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<t>Sorry for pointing the obvious, if finasteride was a progestin and it downgraded the receptors and you take an antiprogesting like RU, shouldnt you feel much worse during the treatment?</t>

 

[Helen]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="506" time="1507385674" user_id="112"><s>

</s>
Sorry for pointing the obvious, if finasteride was a progestin and it downgraded the receptors and you take an antiprogesting like RU, shouldnt you feel much worse during the treatment?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

progestin can upregulated or downregulate the receptor. <br/>
<br/>
You are right, you should feel worse on RU if it was actually blocking progesterone.</r>

 

[TubZy]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="508" time="1507387601" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="506" time="1507385674" user_id="112"><s>

</s>
Sorry for pointing the obvious, if finasteride was a progestin and it downgraded the receptors and you take an antiprogesting like RU, shouldnt you feel much worse during the treatment?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

progestin can upregulated or downregulate the receptor. <br/>
<br/>
You are right, you should feel worse on RU if it was actually blocking progesterone.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

You should feel worse then entire time you think? Towards day 6 or 7 that is when a few of us starting feeling like crap although it could be related to slowed metabolism</r>

 

[BeLikeWater]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="508" time="1507387601" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="506" time="1507385674" user_id="112"><s>

</s>
Sorry for pointing the obvious, if finasteride was a progestin and it downgraded the receptors and you take an antiprogesting like RU, shouldnt you feel much worse during the treatment?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

progestin can upregulated or downregulate the receptor. <br/>
<br/>
You are right, you should feel worse on RU if it was actually blocking progesterone.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

So if you dont know if they were upregulated or downregulated, why use RU, using RU will mean you have 1/2 chance of recovery and 1/2 change of getting worse.<br/>
<br/>
Why use RU to do something if you arent sure of whats the initial situation? <E>:?</E></r>

 

[Jaxx]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<t>Think the point was it is a modulator, bringing it back to balance either way, right</t>

 

[BeLikeWater]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="Jaxx" post_id="517" time="1507392105" user_id="61"><s>

</s>
Think the point was it is a modulator, bringing it back to balance either way, right
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Seems like gambling to me, but hopefully it works, but in other point of view, if people had so good results taking it, maybe something that has done will point us to the cause of why the improvements.</r>

 

[Helen]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="515" time="1507391708" user_id="112"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="508" time="1507387601" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="506" time="1507385674" user_id="112"><s>

</s>
Sorry for pointing the obvious, if finasteride was a progestin and it downgraded the receptors and you take an antiprogesting like RU, shouldnt you feel much worse during the treatment?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

progestin can upregulated or downregulate the receptor. <br/>
<br/>
You are right, you should feel worse on RU if it was actually blocking progesterone.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

So if you dont know if they were upregulated or downregulated, why use RU, using RU will mean you have 1/2 chance of recovery and 1/2 change of getting worse.<br/>
<br/>
If RU acts as a progestin, then it won't work<br/>
<br/>
Why use RU to do something if you arent sure of whats the initial situation? <E>:?</E>
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

that is why I outlined 2 cases. and different protocols to try. RU seems to act on receptors both ways, according to studies. people are just trying it out. I dont know how ru acts exactly. We will know after the trials. <br/>
<br/>
That is why I said either high progesterone cycle or Ru cycle</r>

 

[Helen]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="519" time="1507392764" user_id="112"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="Jaxx" post_id="517" time="1507392105" user_id="61"><s>

</s>
Think the point was it is a modulator, bringing it back to balance either way, right
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Seems like gambling to me, but hopefully it works, but in other point of view, if people had so good results taking it, maybe something that has done will point us to the cause of why the improvements.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

this is all gambling at this point. It is all experimental, no one knows how RU acts. We had one recovery using ulipristal which has almost identical structure to mifepristone.</r>

 

[BeLikeWater]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<t>Btw I have had extremly good results lately, maybe cycling 5dhp 3 times had an effect... first time was amazing, taste for music back, my original sexuality back, emotions back, much better sleep and less anxiety.... but improvements dissapeared with time, but I did cycled it for a week 2 times, they were not exactly cycled I just took it when I needed or I remember. Anyways this past 2 weeks I finally had libido through the roof, but Im also have beenworking on lowering Serotonin for example, and increasing 5ar activity and treating my body as it had autoinmune issues that I think we have.</t>

 

[Helen]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<t>Many people have 5 ar increased and have high DHT.</t>

 

[TubZy]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="521" time="1507393048" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="519" time="1507392764" user_id="112"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="Jaxx" post_id="517" time="1507392105" user_id="61"><s>

</s>
Think the point was it is a modulator, bringing it back to balance either way, right
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Seems like gambling to me, but hopefully it works, but in other point of view, if people had so good results taking it, maybe something that has done will point us to the cause of why the improvements.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

this is all gambling at this point. It is all experimental, no one knows how RU acts. We had one recovery using ulipristal which has almost identical structure to mifepristone.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Yeah, Ella would be interesting as well. And it seems like the guy used a very small amount right? Compared to RU</r>

 

[Helen]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<t>Yeah he used only one pill.</t>

 

[BeLikeWater]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="523" time="1507393954" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
Many people have 5 ar increased and have high DHT.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

DHT blood test are useless for multiple reason I dont want to explain, 5ar activity is completly havoc and explained in Melcangi study of this year, and he has discovered more things since the studie he wants to present in next ones. <br/>
<br/>
If you think DHT blood test levels has something to do with 5ar activity think again...</r>

 

[TubZy]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="525" time="1507394294" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
Yeah he used only one pill.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

At high doses RU was shown to be anti androgenic, what mechanism do you think that is from? From it being a progestin at higher doses?<br/>
<br/>
Do you know if ella has anti andro properties?</r>

 

[Helen]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<t>Belikewater<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
This approach is what got people going circles for 15 years already. finasteride has nothing to do with 5ar. It inhibits it via feedback loop. same as all other progestins, like nandrolone , deca.<br/>
<br/>
If 5ar activity were low , then feeding DHT would resolve the issue, but it does not. <br/>
<br/>
People go on nandrolone and get rid of all symptoms. Since nandrolone acts as DHT and progesterone. When you get off, you have finasteride effects.<br/>
<br/>
going on DHT and progesterone together gets rid of all the symptoms. while you are on it. when you get off , it is like getting of propecia.<br/>
<br/>
Many people already tried it. Superdrol, nandrolone. any progestin will work<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Actually inhibiting 5ar is the way to go. You feel like crap and then snap back.</t>

 

[Helen]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="529" time="1507395142" user_id="2"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="525" time="1507394294" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
Yeah he used only one pill.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

At high doses RU was shown to be anti androgenic, what mechanism do you think that is from? From it being a progestin at higher doses?<br/>
<br/>
Do you know if ella has anti andro properties?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

May be it is a progestin at higher doses, when progesterone really falls.<br/>
<br/>
I have read that Ella effect cortiol and ar very weakly</r>

 

[TubZy]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="532" time="1507395570" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="529" time="1507395142" user_id="2"><s>

</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="525" time="1507394294" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
Yeah he used only one pill.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

At high doses RU was shown to be anti androgenic, what mechanism do you think that is from? From it being a progestin at higher doses?<br/>
<br/>
Do you know if ella has anti andro properties?
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

May be it is a progestin at higher doses, when progesterone really falls.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Yeah, because for the RU trials we all tried going up to 100mg and felt like crap immediately and then we went back to 50mg again and felt OK, but 50mg probably built up over time or atleast around day 7 compared to <MENTION><s>[mention]</s>IHateFin<e>[/mention]</e></MENTION>'s 3 days trial</r>

 

[Helen]

Re: Gbold's Theory

<t>I think it has to do with blocking cortisol. when cortisol is blocked then too much conversion from dopamine takes place I guess.<br/>
<br/>
May be that is why ella did not have any side effects for that person. cabergoline lowers cortisol and prolactin</t>