You mean it is getting easier fasting for 3-4 days and not only 2 days, right?
Chi PFS RECOVERY DIET
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You mean it is getting easier fasting for 3-4 days and not only 2 days, right?
MNK99
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Yes, exactly.
10 days is easier in a sense than 2 or 3 days and 18-20 is easier BC you don't want to break your streak. I had to go kind of long bc my mental sides were very bad. If I did this back when I was healthier, or in the future it'd be easier. Still, it's not super easy of c.
Re: Is 7 easier than 2? Yes pretty much. I did 4-5 day fasts a couple times but always lost patience or broke my fast with unhealthy foods. Same reason why juice feasting in my worst state wasn't for me.
10 days is easier in a sense than 2 or 3 days and 18-20 is easier BC you don't want to break your streak. I had to go kind of long bc my mental sides were very bad. If I did this back when I was healthier, or in the future it'd be easier. Still, it's not super easy of c.
Re: Is 7 easier than 2? Yes pretty much. I did 4-5 day fasts a couple times but always lost patience or broke my fast with unhealthy foods. Same reason why juice feasting in my worst state wasn't for me.
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So, it is easier to fast for 3 to 4 days, right?
Sorry, asked again cause I didn't see my reply. Thx for the reply, interesting!
Next question
Would fasting of 7 days be even easier than for two days and safe enough?
MNK99
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Re: Insulin Resistance -
@Rid said: "I am one of the people who does very well on low carbs and have very bad reactions to fluctuations of my blood sugar.
I seriously believe PFS, at least in some cases, are some form of insulin resistance. the symptoms and even the research behind what 5ar inhibs do would support this."
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I think so too. I am 100% certain PSSD/Effexor XR gave me insulin resistance, I mean I was obese --> thin, by running and lifting in my late teens. On and post Effexor I was overweight again and it was very hard to lose it. After weight loss was normal, even better --- as I gained more lean body mass.
-Holy hell: I don't always make sense. I mean: I was 250lb at 16 and 180lb at 18 and the rest of adulthood pretty much around there. EXCEPT when I rapidly gained weight on Effexor, and could not lose off of it for 18months. Also, I was 208lb pre-fast finasteride. I was literally fit or too skinny (170s) every other time besides those.
-I had a bigger waist at 208lb (after effexor) than at 250lb (before caring about fitness), only because of antidepressants, possibly also seroquel. Otherwise I was lean or approaching leaner and fit. I had an abdominoplasty and it would have been completed sooner if not for that drug. I feel the same way with PFS. I was thin besides these fucking drugs, my entire adult life. Thin or better (lean and strong, or at least towards that). Both made digestion bad for a year+ too. Outside of it digestion was much better. I can tell bc, usually it takes me half an hour to an hour to get ready in the morning. After these 2 drugs, way longer. Bc of bad digestion and not wanting to use the washroom in public or walk around bloated (I'm crazy I know).
I'll say this though, drinking 30-70 shots a week (I advise against that), eating super healthy or only fairly healthy (minus bad things like alcohol), I seldom if ever was in the 190+lb range, except when I was studying like hell -- and even then 195 max, and I was stronger than previous years anyways.
Outside of these garbage meds. Most of my 20's I was too skinny if anything. I'm doing aite now, but how dare they make me gain weight. I'd like to force feed them transgender drugs till their hearts and gonads explode.
It clearly gave insulin resistance. I lost like 50lb in 4-7 months (my memory is bad) in my teens, and it took 1.5 years to lose like 28lb after starting effexor, and drunk and high later, I was skinny 85% of the time. Even though drinking is clearly bad for leanness. It's the meds. Stimulants kind of do the opposite but not much (I need them to focus/structure, can't abuse them for fitness).
@Rid said: "I am one of the people who does very well on low carbs and have very bad reactions to fluctuations of my blood sugar.
I seriously believe PFS, at least in some cases, are some form of insulin resistance. the symptoms and even the research behind what 5ar inhibs do would support this."
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I think so too. I am 100% certain PSSD/Effexor XR gave me insulin resistance, I mean I was obese --> thin, by running and lifting in my late teens. On and post Effexor I was overweight again and it was very hard to lose it. After weight loss was normal, even better --- as I gained more lean body mass.
-Holy hell: I don't always make sense. I mean: I was 250lb at 16 and 180lb at 18 and the rest of adulthood pretty much around there. EXCEPT when I rapidly gained weight on Effexor, and could not lose off of it for 18months. Also, I was 208lb pre-fast finasteride. I was literally fit or too skinny (170s) every other time besides those.
-I had a bigger waist at 208lb (after effexor) than at 250lb (before caring about fitness), only because of antidepressants, possibly also seroquel. Otherwise I was lean or approaching leaner and fit. I had an abdominoplasty and it would have been completed sooner if not for that drug. I feel the same way with PFS. I was thin besides these fucking drugs, my entire adult life. Thin or better (lean and strong, or at least towards that). Both made digestion bad for a year+ too. Outside of it digestion was much better. I can tell bc, usually it takes me half an hour to an hour to get ready in the morning. After these 2 drugs, way longer. Bc of bad digestion and not wanting to use the washroom in public or walk around bloated (I'm crazy I know).
I'll say this though, drinking 30-70 shots a week (I advise against that), eating super healthy or only fairly healthy (minus bad things like alcohol), I seldom if ever was in the 190+lb range, except when I was studying like hell -- and even then 195 max, and I was stronger than previous years anyways.
Outside of these garbage meds. Most of my 20's I was too skinny if anything. I'm doing aite now, but how dare they make me gain weight. I'd like to force feed them transgender drugs till their hearts and gonads explode.
It clearly gave insulin resistance. I lost like 50lb in 4-7 months (my memory is bad) in my teens, and it took 1.5 years to lose like 28lb after starting effexor, and drunk and high later, I was skinny 85% of the time. Even though drinking is clearly bad for leanness. It's the meds. Stimulants kind of do the opposite but not much (I need them to focus/structure, can't abuse them for fitness).
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Can somebody answer my simple question? He has classic symptoms of chronic stress, chronic fatigue, undernourishment etc.. And yet he is running 5k 3 times a day, sprinting + gym. On top of this is on very low calorie diet and he probably even can't digest the food. So I am asking why nobody is saying about this crazy stuff? How this added stress from low calorie and exercises will help completely fucked up organism? How it is not obvious that he is making things only worse with this? These are obvious red flags and nobody is saying anything? Nobody sees nothing wrong? Interesting.. I really need to stop reading this logs, because it really pisses me off..
MNK99
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HE definitely ran a lot. I think a lot of us may have been exercise addicts in our early 20's or at some point.
May have not all been necessary but damn he was committed. And super organized, I'm in awe of anyone with that high of a level of structure.
May have not all been necessary but damn he was committed. And super organized, I'm in awe of anyone with that high of a level of structure.
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It feels good in the short term, because you will make adrenals to squeeze some juice. Same with stimulants, sugar etc. It will deplete your body more and more.. It's just crazy that nobody will say anything about something this obvious.. Running is probably the worst. It has the worst effect on the hormones and the body overall. Stress hormones go up, anabolic hormones go down, T3 goes down. Weightlifting is the opposite. It will increase metabolism, anabolic hormones and most importantly it is easy on adrenals.
@MNK99 I think the same too, I'm one of those cases I believe
Soon after my Accutane crash I started to react badly to carbs ( fatigue, infection flare up, dry eyes )
Regardless of my own interpretation of my reaction with carbs, here's some info from my hair test,
Ca/Mg ratio: 17
Information from how to interpret hair test:
Ca / Mg: Cardio vascular health. Lower than 7 indicates not enough carbs (rare) and higher than 7 can indicate too many carbs (more common).
Ca / Mg: Blood sugar control. Calcification. Addiction tendency.
If its high = hypoglycemia, aka bad blood sugar control, you probably crave salts at every meal. You probably feel like falling asleep and crashing after lunch
The difference is insane, I'm not just " a little " above this level and my body also naturally ( well, since accutane ) crave salt, and I eat salt with almost all of my meals, Pink Himalayan,
Chromium was also one of the recommendation I got from my hair test analysis and this is a supplement usually prescribed to fight against insulin resistance/ diabetes ( type 2 )
For now my diet is mainly proteins, fish, chicken, turkey, beef; shrimps, scallops .. Beets, celery, lot of greens, spinach, asparagus and carrots / blueberries as sources of (low) carbs and I feel the best I've felt since the beginning of this PAS thing
Chi , IHP and entropy ( not sure for him ) followed a strict ketogenic diet to recover from their pfs too. I don't believe it is for everyone, every cases, but there's reason to believe it might be the best approach, at least temporally, for some
Regarding sports, I agree with you @Yura and I doesn't run, I just lift weights, with HIIT sprint sessions. Cardio has a complete opposite effect and I don't feel good after running for 30min+ .
Soon after my Accutane crash I started to react badly to carbs ( fatigue, infection flare up, dry eyes )
Regardless of my own interpretation of my reaction with carbs, here's some info from my hair test,
Ca/Mg ratio: 17
Information from how to interpret hair test:
Ca / Mg: Cardio vascular health. Lower than 7 indicates not enough carbs (rare) and higher than 7 can indicate too many carbs (more common).
Ca / Mg: Blood sugar control. Calcification. Addiction tendency.
If its high = hypoglycemia, aka bad blood sugar control, you probably crave salts at every meal. You probably feel like falling asleep and crashing after lunch
The difference is insane, I'm not just " a little " above this level and my body also naturally ( well, since accutane ) crave salt, and I eat salt with almost all of my meals, Pink Himalayan,
Chromium was also one of the recommendation I got from my hair test analysis and this is a supplement usually prescribed to fight against insulin resistance/ diabetes ( type 2 )
For now my diet is mainly proteins, fish, chicken, turkey, beef; shrimps, scallops .. Beets, celery, lot of greens, spinach, asparagus and carrots / blueberries as sources of (low) carbs and I feel the best I've felt since the beginning of this PAS thing
Chi , IHP and entropy ( not sure for him ) followed a strict ketogenic diet to recover from their pfs too. I don't believe it is for everyone, every cases, but there's reason to believe it might be the best approach, at least temporally, for some
Regarding sports, I agree with you @Yura and I doesn't run, I just lift weights, with HIIT sprint sessions. Cardio has a complete opposite effect and I don't feel good after running for 30min+ .
MNK99
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I think it's best hormonally not to run excessively @Yura said. I did when I was a teen to my early 20's, but I was obsessed. I went from fat to thin and thought I had to keep it up to stay thin (not true). I added much more strength training later, and pretty much only do that and walk a ton anyways. I learned how to control and lower bf% later with more experience (strength training) and diet.
Our diet is similar but I have salmon and tuna for seafood (not a huge fan of the crustaceans) @vicecaz. I literally succeed better in life with less carbs, but then again I was only ever fit, never 220lb of pure muscle or anything. If I need to eat more carbs to get there, I would... but it's not really my goal. I usually ate after working out and school or work, while healthy. I only ate like a normal person when I was an overweight kid pretty much. It was easier, eating in one small eating window rather than 3-5 meals a day for me. I used to run/jog over an hour everyday (5-10 yrs ago), I don't think I can even do that anymore. Certainly not with knee injuries/asthma out of control. Strength training and HIITS are better.
It was by accident mostly I started fasted-training (cardio and weights without breakfast, then just fasted training) and HIITS (kind of had to, asthma wise). I definitely feel better with less, but more focused exercising and viewing food only as a fuel source and macros rather than "meal 1-4" or "breakfast, lunch, dinner". Although when I was younger, jogging definitely did help my ADHD and mood -- It initially felt good, but it was never enough. I also did it to "center" myself/ stop thinking. Walking and music kind of serve the same purpose. It did instill exercise discipline though.
Our diet is similar but I have salmon and tuna for seafood (not a huge fan of the crustaceans) @vicecaz. I literally succeed better in life with less carbs, but then again I was only ever fit, never 220lb of pure muscle or anything. If I need to eat more carbs to get there, I would... but it's not really my goal. I usually ate after working out and school or work, while healthy. I only ate like a normal person when I was an overweight kid pretty much. It was easier, eating in one small eating window rather than 3-5 meals a day for me. I used to run/jog over an hour everyday (5-10 yrs ago), I don't think I can even do that anymore. Certainly not with knee injuries/asthma out of control. Strength training and HIITS are better.
It was by accident mostly I started fasted-training (cardio and weights without breakfast, then just fasted training) and HIITS (kind of had to, asthma wise). I definitely feel better with less, but more focused exercising and viewing food only as a fuel source and macros rather than "meal 1-4" or "breakfast, lunch, dinner". Although when I was younger, jogging definitely did help my ADHD and mood -- It initially felt good, but it was never enough. I also did it to "center" myself/ stop thinking. Walking and music kind of serve the same purpose. It did instill exercise discipline though.
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This is about chi you are saying correct?
Chi didn't have the worst fatigue. He considered PFS "CFS" for many reasons, but combatting CFS was his approach in beating PFS. GBOLD will tell you that some people can beat CFS with a full year of working out really hard. I think it really depends on your subtype and oxidation type. For me, a 4 high guy with toxicity issues (ammonia, pathogens, mercury, heavy metals), we really want to get stuff out of my body. Constant movement (followed by proper rest and nutrition) will help that.
I think those with low minerals may be the opposite where more rest may help. I could be wrong here, but this is what makes sense to me. I do well being active, but I need to sleep well at night. Also, if I overdo it, I can really set myself back a few days where fatigue can get bad. Hopefully I'm past that point now.
Chi found a plan that worked for him. He supplemented to make his body do extremely well in terms of digestion with probiotics, digestive enzymes and some herbals. He tried a lot of things and was able to learn his body and find what was best for it. He was a really smart kid and someone to look up to. He was my favorite PFS recovery story, but just one of many that you can learn from. Ihatepropecia702 on propeciahelp is another similar to chi recovery story.
And he didn't run that much. Like 5km (3 miles) 3 times a week or so? That's easily do-able. He loveddd cold showers. He used enemas (spring water). He didn't use electronics at night and he grew his own vegetables (for extra nutrition). He juiced vegetables. He fasted for a full day once a week. The kid did so much.
I also saw him have periods where he didn't do much. I think he wrote he went 6 full months without working out at one point. LOL I wish I could do that.
@bruschi11
"I also saw him have periods where he didn't do much. I think he wrote he went 6 full months without working out at one point. LOL I wish I could do that."
What do you mean by saying working out? You mean body excercises (gym,running etc) or working out like job, professional work, so he could rest staying at home all day?
Sorry for the stupid question, but these recoveries are very interesting to me.
"I also saw him have periods where he didn't do much. I think he wrote he went 6 full months without working out at one point. LOL I wish I could do that."
What do you mean by saying working out? You mean body excercises (gym,running etc) or working out like job, professional work, so he could rest staying at home all day?
Sorry for the stupid question, but these recoveries are very interesting to me.
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He worked. I believe in finance and had a good job normal or even longer than normal hours.
But working out as in he ran 3 miles 3 times weekly. He lifted weights and played a lot of sports for exercise as well.
You have to read his recovery story. Every page. There is no excuse not to.
@K8668B is doing it currently. It’s a fun read. Tell him K8! haha it’s worth the time spent reading it!!
Where can I find his recovery story?
Thank you.
Niles
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Chi's story
One thing I did notice is that during his first 3-month stint of strict exercise and diet, it wasn't until he STOPPED exercising for like a week that he started seeing very rapid improvement. Things did dip again for him after that, but I think that his first strict exercise regimen amounted to a "hardening" routine, after which his body was much stronger and more able to sustain energy while resting.
Also important to note that the dude was crazy athletic pre-fin, which allowed him to hit it as hard as he did. My cardio was pretty shit pre-fin, so I'm planning to slowly build up to a rigorous exercise routine. Gotta listen to your body - take notes on how you feel during, after, and on the evening of exercise to find your sweet spot and build from there.
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Niles
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Here's the quote:
"I did 3 months [of exercise], every day without fail. I then decided to have a break as i was feeling good, that's when my body went through some form of anti-crash. Things have slipped away a bit since, but not as bad as before - I have done much less exercising recently though. I am about to start 6 months, including weightlifting. I don't think PFS will be able to handle what i am about to throw at it
MNK99
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Are you guys lifting 3-4 times a week or more like 5-6 times a week?
I have done both, and with trainers, I was only doing 4-5 and getting great results. 5-7 requires a lot of stamina and planning (whatever that is).
But I had 3 major workouts and 2 lighter ones. As an 18-20 year old I worked out like 14/week times if you include running... but it was kind of overkill.
I look fitter now, but yeah probably had better stamina then.
I have done both, and with trainers, I was only doing 4-5 and getting great results. 5-7 requires a lot of stamina and planning (whatever that is).
But I had 3 major workouts and 2 lighter ones. As an 18-20 year old I worked out like 14/week times if you include running... but it was kind of overkill.
I look fitter now, but yeah probably had better stamina then.