CONNECTION LICORICE, INOSITOL, RU, ELLA, PROGESTERONE,LITHIUM

[IHateFin]

Dont let @IHateFin read this! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dude don't get me tempted!! :lol:
I mean I have just about all of these items laying around. WHAT IF THATS THE CURE!? Haha jkjk

The hilarious irony is that, at out current level of understand, the cure probably does lie within that group of supps. Infuriatingly close!

EDIT: Oh yeah, what's the connection between this thread and your new theory IHateFin? Gbold is basically saying the same thing you did but without the part about DHT. Is the DHT really necessary here? Could it hurt? Why didn't gbold mention it? :?:

I think dht is super important. But he probs just didn't mention it since blocking prog n letting estrogen rise should automatically get dht activated. With high doses of ru like 50mg it may not allow it due to the weak antiandrogen action so I'm feeling more positive about 10mg of ru.

 

[jacknap]

Re: CONNECTION LICORICE, INOSITOL, RU, ELLA, PROGESTERONE

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="2371" time="1508667794" user_id="90"><s>

</s>
<URL url="https://www.drugs.com/answers/lithium-libido-increased-anyone-issue-676767.html"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.drugs.com/answers/lithium-l ... 76767.html">https://www.drugs.com/answers/lithium-libido-increased-anyone-issue-676767.html</LINK_TEXT></URL><br/>
<br/>
<URL url="https://www.psychforums.com/bipolar/topic127142.html">https://www.psychforums.com/bipolar/topic127142.html</URL><br/>
<br/>
Interesting.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

I actually wanted to try lithium orotate for mood stabilization and apparently it has gaba benefits too. <br/>
would it be safe to try?</r>

 

[jacknap]

Re: CONNECTION LICORICE, INOSITOL, RU, ELLA, PROGESTERONE

<r><QUOTE author="Shadow" post_id="2370" time="1508666474" user_id="54"><s>

</s>
As far as I know, no.<br/>
A time ago I was trying to find a connection among the things that made people recover from pssd. Three of them are in this title!<br/>
Was reported recoveries from:<br/>
<br/>
Licorice + Kudzu(1 person)<br/>
<URL url="https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/ggggg123-licorice-root/"><s></s>https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/ggggg123-licorice-root/<e></e></URL><br/>
<br/>
Inositol(2 people)<br/>
<URL url="https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/pssd-inositol/"><s></s>https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/pssd-inositol/<e></e></URL><br/>
<URL url="https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/pharmd-inositol/"><s></s>https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/pharmd-inositol/<e></e></URL><br/>
Some minor improvements were reported too.<br/>
<br/>
St John's Wort(3 people)<br/>
<URL url="https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/kramdrol-st-johns-wort/"><s></s>https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/kramdrol-st-johns-wort/<e></e></URL><br/>
<URL url="https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/beetlebum-st-johns-wort/"><s></s>https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/beetlebum-st-johns-wort/<e></e></URL><br/>
One person on reddit recovered multiple times.<br/>
Temporary improvements were reported.<br/>
<br/>
Mianserin(1 person)<br/>
<URL url="https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/louis-syfer-mianserin/"><s></s>https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/louis-syfer-mianserin/<e></e></URL><br/>
<br/>
Low dose SSRI(1 person)<br/>
<URL url="https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/pete-low-dose-ssri/"><s></s>https://pssdlab.wordpress.com/pete-low-dose-ssri/<e></e></URL><br/>
I think that 2 other people reported some improvement.<br/>
<br/>
Then we have people on Ella, 1 recovered(Trondanac), expendable doing well.
<e>

</e></QUOTE>

I used st johns wort when I first crashed. I read that it prevented sides for some people using ru58841. but it didn't do anything for me.</r>

 

[Snell1234]

Just wanted to outline some of the connections among all of these for PSSD, PFS, POIS, Accutane

Progestins act on progesterone, cortisol, AR, and MR receptors. I think I did not mention the MR receptor before but it is well known that progesterone blocks that receptor and causes sodium wasting. So if you take progestins, then upon stopping the drug , aldosterone will be very very sensitive.

This can raise sodium in the cell. And I know many people with POIS for instance have severe reactions to sodium, increasing their symptoms substantially.

Anything that blocks progesterone makes aldosterone receptors less sensitive. Also it looks like inositol formation is increased with aldosterone. So taking inositol can decrease aldosterone receptors. Also licorice root acts as aldosterone. and upon stopping decreases aldosterone receptors.

Estrogen raises sodium in the cell. So does aldosterone. So if sodium is high already from too sensitive aldosterone. estrogen will be left insensitive and thus DHT will be downregulated.

We need to explore this route and try combination of anti progestins with licorice, and inositols.

[mention]gbolduev[/mention] During the snap back period, is it okay to swim in sea water? Or should we avoid due to the salt?

 

[barbaar]

Dude don't get me tempted!! :lol:
I mean I have just about all of these items laying around. WHAT IF THATS THE CURE!? Haha jkjk

The hilarious irony is that, at out current level of understand, the cure probably does lie within that group of supps. Infuriatingly close!

EDIT: Oh yeah, what's the connection between this thread and your new theory IHateFin? Gbold is basically saying the same thing you did but without the part about DHT. Is the DHT really necessary here? Could it hurt? Why didn't gbold mention it? :?:

I think dht is super important. But he probs just didn't mention it since blocking prog n letting estrogen rise should automatically get dht activated. With high doses of ru like 50mg it may not allow it due to the weak antiandrogen action so I'm feeling more positive about 10mg of ru.

If blocking prog without having antiandrogen action is the key, wouldn't Ella be a better option? Or do you think the cortisol blocking effects of RU are beneficial? According to my admittedly incomplete understanding the main distinction between Ella and RU is that RU has cortisol and androgen blocking effects on top of what Ella does. Then again RU does seem stronger in general and like you said low doses might help avoid the antiandrogen action.

 

[IHateFin]

The hilarious irony is that, at out current level of understand, the cure probably does lie within that group of supps. Infuriatingly close!

EDIT: Oh yeah, what's the connection between this thread and your new theory IHateFin? Gbold is basically saying the same thing you did but without the part about DHT. Is the DHT really necessary here? Could it hurt? Why didn't gbold mention it? :?:

I think dht is super important. But he probs just didn't mention it since blocking prog n letting estrogen rise should automatically get dht activated. With high doses of ru like 50mg it may not allow it due to the weak antiandrogen action so I'm feeling more positive about 10mg of ru.

If blocking prog without having antiandrogen action is the key, wouldn't Ella be a better option? Or do you think the cortisol blocking effects of RU are beneficial? According to my admittedly incomplete understanding the main distinction between Ella and RU is that RU has cortisol and androgen blocking effects on top of what Ella does. Then again RU does seem stronger in general and like you said low doses might help avoid the antiandrogen action.

you got it, man! Ella is much weaker, like you said, but also is a selective modulator so it will activate some prog receptors and block others. its blocking capabilities are far inferior to that of RU and RU will be a full antagonist to the prog receptors in the presence of or endogenous progesterone. so it kind of leaves no stone left un-turned.

my preference is RU; however, ella is showing some good results from trials too.

seeing as though results from ru seem to get better and better with the lesser n lesser that is used i bet that a 3 day 5 to 10mg of the stuff could be the magic number.
if ella, a much much weaker version, can help a ton at 5mg than i wonder what 5mg of ru can do.

it has been shown on paper that 5mg doses can still completely block progesterone receptors. and given that men who have high progesterone still have no where near as much as a female this dose will be an interesting amount to see the effect of.

 

[barbaar]

I think dht is super important. But he probs just didn't mention it since blocking prog n letting estrogen rise should automatically get dht activated. With high doses of ru like 50mg it may not allow it due to the weak antiandrogen action so I'm feeling more positive about 10mg of ru.

If blocking prog without having antiandrogen action is the key, wouldn't Ella be a better option? Or do you think the cortisol blocking effects of RU are beneficial? According to my admittedly incomplete understanding the main distinction between Ella and RU is that RU has cortisol and androgen blocking effects on top of what Ella does. Then again RU does seem stronger in general and like you said low doses might help avoid the antiandrogen action.

you got it, man! Ella is much weaker, like you said, but also is a selective modulator so it will activate some prog receptors and block others. its blocking capabilities are far inferior to that of RU and RU will be a full antagonist to the prog receptors in the presence of or endogenous progesterone. so it kind of leaves no stone left un-turned.

my preference is RU; however, ella is showing some good results from trials too.

seeing as though results from ru seem to get better and better with the lesser n lesser that is used i bet that a 3 day 5 to 10mg of the stuff could be the magic number.
if ella, a much much weaker version, can help a ton at 5mg than i wonder what 5mg of ru can do.

it has been shown on paper that 5mg doses can still completely block progesterone receptors. and given that men who have high progesterone still have no where near as much as a female this dose will be an interesting amount to see the effect of.

Ahh gotcha. It didn't occur to me that ella was selective in that way, I thought RU was just a stronger blocker.

 

[IHateFin]

If blocking prog without having antiandrogen action is the key, wouldn't Ella be a better option? Or do you think the cortisol blocking effects of RU are beneficial? According to my admittedly incomplete understanding the main distinction between Ella and RU is that RU has cortisol and androgen blocking effects on top of what Ella does. Then again RU does seem stronger in general and like you said low doses might help avoid the antiandrogen action.

you got it, man! Ella is much weaker, like you said, but also is a selective modulator so it will activate some prog receptors and block others. its blocking capabilities are far inferior to that of RU and RU will be a full antagonist to the prog receptors in the presence of or endogenous progesterone. so it kind of leaves no stone left un-turned.

my preference is RU; however, ella is showing some good results from trials too.

seeing as though results from ru seem to get better and better with the lesser n lesser that is used i bet that a 3 day 5 to 10mg of the stuff could be the magic number.
if ella, a much much weaker version, can help a ton at 5mg than i wonder what 5mg of ru can do.

it has been shown on paper that 5mg doses can still completely block progesterone receptors. and given that men who have high progesterone still have no where near as much as a female this dose will be an interesting amount to see the effect of.

Ahh gotcha. It didn't occur to me that ella was selective in that way, I thought RU was just a stronger blocker.

Yeah Ella is a SPRM (selective progesterone receptor modulator). That's why gboldev has therorized it may act as finasteride in some individuals although luckily I don't think we have seen this happen yet.

 

[expendable]

Hmm. I might have to try ru for my next cycle if slash when I do one. Question, how are you guys cutting the 200mg pills into 10mg pieces?

I also vaguely remember that ella being like finasteride thing. When I took saw palmetto i got huge remission for a couple days. Licorice root helps me too. So did ella. What does all this mean? Where did the old theory of "cases" go? (Low or high prog)

 

[Jaxx]

I am also a bit puzzled with the exact mechanism we are looking for. For instance, Inositol apparently lowers testosterone significantly, not sure how this is helping with the ella cycle in the first place?
Licorice + small dose of Zinc gave me alot more energy (guess it elevated my cortisol, but lowered my estrogen as i got some PE with it), but i'm done hypothesizing without a propper blood test, so thats my first step.

 

[IHateFin]

I am also a bit puzzled with the exact mechanism we are looking for. For instance, Inositol apparently lowers testosterone significantly, not sure how this is helping with the ella cycle in the first place?
Licorice + small dose of Zinc gave me alot more energy (guess it elevated my cortisol, but lowered my estrogen as i got some PE with it), but i'm done hypothesizing without a propper blood test, so thats my first step.

inositol does not lower testosterone in men. the only findings on testosterone lowering is with women with PCOS and that's because the cycts that grow on their overies messes up their hormones and they produce and sustain higher test levels due to this that are not healthy for a women. and inositol only lowers their test when it improves their inulin resistance so its an indirect mechanism. it will not lower test in a man.

 

[Jaxx]

There were some sites that said it does, but at the same time they werent the best sources. Anyway, from a PSSD perspective it was always a supplement with some debate, as it also raises serotonine (and dopamine).

 

[IHateFin]

There were some sites that said it does, but at the same time they werent the best sources. Anyway, from a PSSD perspective it was always a supplement with some debate, as it also raises serotonine (and dopamine).

Yeah I read about it too and I got freaked out initially so I looked to do a lil digging and all the research shows only a reduction in women with that particular condition.

I can see why it's up for debate, but it seems to increase receptor densities for serotonin and especially in D2 receptors but doesn't affect binding affinity. Seems like all being a plus to me!
Not everyone may benefit the same but if it increases fried serotonin receptors I think it will help with PSSD since it should actually decrease serotonin once you hop off inositol which falls in line with those that recover from it since they only snap back n balance that brain chemistry once they stop taking it after chronic administration.

 

[expendable]

Hmm. I might have to try ru for my next cycle if slash when I do one. Question, how are you guys cutting the 200mg pills into 10mg pieces?

I also vaguely remember that ella being like finasteride thing. When I took saw palmetto i got huge remission for a couple days. Licorice root helps me too. So did ella. What does all this mean? Where did the old theory of "cases" go? (Low or high prog)

[mention]IHateFin[/mention] please respond :lol: At least tell me how to cut a pill into 20 pieces without turning it into powder :lol:

EDIT: Guys, I wanted to mention (in case anyone doesn't know/forgot) that our member Trondanac from PSSDforum actually took inositol before he tried ella.

"... I ordered inositol and have been taking 12 g a day for a week. It also helps a bit with sensitivity but nothing huge."

This was about 2 weeks before his trial, I believe. My trial was somewhat "messy" as well, since I had taken licorice root earlier in the month. Very interesting stuff here.

 

[IHateFin]

Hmm. I might have to try ru for my next cycle if slash when I do one. Question, how are you guys cutting the 200mg pills into 10mg pieces?

I also vaguely remember that ella being like finasteride thing. When I took saw palmetto i got huge remission for a couple days. Licorice root helps me too. So did ella. What does all this mean? Where did the old theory of "cases" go? (Low or high prog)

@IHateFin please respond :lol: At least tell me how to cut a pill into 20 pieces without turning it into powder :lol:

EDIT: Guys, I wanted to mention (in case anyone doesn't know/forgot) that our member Trondanac from PSSDforum actually took inositol before he tried ella.

"... I ordered inositol and have been taking 12 g a day for a week. It also helps a bit with sensitivity but nothing huge."

This was about 2 weeks before his trial, I believe. My trial was somewhat "messy" as well, since I had taken licorice root earlier in the month. Very interesting stuff here.

I gotchu, Fam! hahaha well the way im going about this is turning it into powder lol
I cut my Ru pill into fourths will a pill cutter supper easily and then I will take that 50mg dose, put it in a dime baggy and beat it with the back of the spoon and turn it into powder. I have a 10mg micro scoop so ill just eyeball a 10mg dose. not the best method, buts what I got haha you could always go the extra step in buying a tiny scale n actually measure 10mg of the powder too.

im on 18g of inositol a day and I have noticed an increase in sensitivity which was prefin already for me thanks to ru so lets just say I really really like touching myself randomly lol
I hope some magic happens when I drop both inositol and Randro at the end of November. I hope my Christmas present to my self is being cured 100% by dec 25th!

 

[expendable]

I gotchu, Fam! hahaha well the way im going about this is turning it into powder lol
I cut my Ru pill into fourths will a pill cutter supper easily and then I will take that 50mg dose, put it in a dime baggy and beat it with the back of the spoon and turn it into powder. I have a 10mg micro scoop so ill just eyeball a 10mg dose. not the best method, buts what I got haha you could always go the extra step in buying a tiny scale n actually measure 10mg of the powder too.

im on 18g of inositol a day and I have noticed an increase in sensitivity which was prefin already for me thanks to ru so lets just say I really really like touching myself randomly lol
I hope some magic happens when I drop both inositol and Randro at the end of November. I hope my Christmas present to my self is being cured 100% by dec 25th!

Fin, I've read through your log again, but maybe it's late, I can't wrap my head around it... Do you have a timeline of your improvements? Like what improved when, after what medications? I'll probably get to making one myself so I can have a better picture of how stuff affected me when. What's the aggregate improvement in the RU trials, anyway? Is everyone above baseline but not 100% back to normal after the snap-back? Where are the areas of biggest improvement? Of least improvement?

FOR SCIENCE!

 

[IHateFin]

I gotchu, Fam! hahaha well the way im going about this is turning it into powder lol
I cut my Ru pill into fourths will a pill cutter supper easily and then I will take that 50mg dose, put it in a dime baggy and beat it with the back of the spoon and turn it into powder. I have a 10mg micro scoop so ill just eyeball a 10mg dose. not the best method, buts what I got haha you could always go the extra step in buying a tiny scale n actually measure 10mg of the powder too.

im on 18g of inositol a day and I have noticed an increase in sensitivity which was prefin already for me thanks to ru so lets just say I really really like touching myself randomly lol
I hope some magic happens when I drop both inositol and Randro at the end of November. I hope my Christmas present to my self is being cured 100% by dec 25th!

Fin, I've read through your log again, but maybe it's late, I can't wrap my head around it... Do you have a timeline of your improvements? Like what improved when, after what medications? I'll probably get to making one myself so I can have a better picture of how stuff affected me when. What's the aggregate improvement in the RU trials, anyway? Is everyone above baseline but not 100% back to normal after the snap-back? Where are the areas of biggest improvement? Of least improvement?

FOR SCIENCE!

yeah my log is kinda all over the place with random updates, but off the top of my head ill give you a rough timeline on what improved when, but to do that i have to discuss my first and much better ru cycle.

after my first 3 day ru cycle my mood greatly improved, stregnth, fat dispursement and penis sensitivity greatly improved with penis sensitivity being the one that improved the most. i kept getting better n better and i even slowly started shedding a lot more hair then i decided to take protandim which is a mix of adaptogens and milk thistle which messed me up bad. so i decided to go on another ru cycle sooner than i had anticipated originally.

enter new ru cycle which was 9 days as at the time we thought the longer the better which is not the case as we show much better results the less ru that is taken. when taking it again i did see improvments while on it and i continued to improve until it peaked mid cycle when i woke up with amazing wood, sexual dream and really horny with sore joints. i came 3 times that day n crashed. from there i dealt with headaches n sleep disturbances due to the prolactin sides of ru and when i hopped off my snap back was heavily hindered due to this. i finally took metergoline which resored some libido and penis sensativity but would die down the next day and my mood was bleh.
after a week i started feeling better, but i wouldnt call it a "snap back", but more so finally being alleviated from prolactin sides n elevation so i decided to hop on inositol which i started at 6g and then titrated up to 18g by the end of the first week. when i first started inositol i had an amazing wet dream and had an amazing mood and penis sensitivity started picking up quite a bit again.
i added in Randro after 1 full week of inositil and continued to do well. when i realized i actually developed gyno in one nip i threw in reversotrol which helps reduce test conversion to estrogen and ive taken that 4 times total and gyno significantly reduced and penis sensitivity is better than prefin and i got even leaner and even better fat disbursment.
the Randro is now starting to make me shed hair a little more mainly towards the end of the day like around 4pm. dick sensitivty is stupid good and i crave masterbating more than i do actual sex for some reason right now although when my gf gives me a blowie i go nuts cuz the sensitivity is soooo good. luckily i dont have premature ejaculate too!
im starting to enjoy the gym more again and last night out of nowhere i felt androgenic af like my veins were bulging, skin tight and muscles felt harder so that was nice.
this morning i feel good, slept great and in a decent mood. got some scalp tingles so hair will probs shed a bit today lol

i think that pretty much sums it all up. if i missed something from my log its probably cuz it wasnt that remarkable of a change or difference.

 

[Jaxx]

Hmm. I might have to try ru for my next cycle if slash when I do one. Question, how are you guys cutting the 200mg pills into 10mg pieces?

I also vaguely remember that ella being like finasteride thing. When I took saw palmetto i got huge remission for a couple days. Licorice root helps me too. So did ella. What does all this mean? Where did the old theory of "cases" go? (Low or high prog)

@IHateFin please respond :lol: At least tell me how to cut a pill into 20 pieces without turning it into powder :lol:

EDIT: Guys, I wanted to mention (in case anyone doesn't know/forgot) that our member Trondanac from PSSDforum actually took inositol before he tried ella.

"... I ordered inositol and have been taking 12 g a day for a week. It also helps a bit with sensitivity but nothing huge."

This was about 2 weeks before his trial, I believe. My trial was somewhat "messy" as well, since I had taken licorice root earlier in the month. Very interesting stuff here.

Yeah i couldnt really tell how long he took it in total. Could be useful to know

 

[Shadow]

Just a quick update: Im on 18g of Inositol for 3 weeks now, did nothing to my sensitivity but improved the quality of my erections! Nocturnal and morning wood everyday.

 

[Jaxx]

Any side effects?