Constant chest pains after taking Vitamin K and D.

[Hevel]

I wonder if anyone here had a similar reaction, especially people who used to or still follow Ray Peat dietary guidelines, after more than 5 years of eating that way(basically lots of milk and liver)I started experiencing occasional chest tightness and discomfort that usually went away after a few days, I figured it's related somehow to calcification and the way to treat it for anyone who follows Peat's ideas would be adding Vitamin K(mk4) and Vitamin D3,

Unfortunately, these had the opposite effect and made me feel like I'm going to have a heart attack, adding Aspirin didn't help at all and I quickly realized that drinking milk made the pain even more intense, dropping milk did lessen the pain to some degree but so far the only supplement that offers some relief is Magnesium Bisglycinate, If I take at least 500mg a day I feel almost normal, the problem is I am completely dependent on it, if go one day without supplementing Magnesium, the pain comes back full force.

I worry I may have done irreversible damage to my heart and I don't think Mg alone is enough to fix it so any further advice and guidance would be much appreciated!

 

[Brute]

I've experienced similar symptoms sometimes from doing too much calcium, D and K, I wouldn't worry too much. Whats your diet like? Sounds like you're a slow oxidizer and you should limit calcium, vitamin D and vitamin K as much as possible right now and get as much magnesium as possible. What's wrong with supplementing? You could even increase to 1000mg IMO. Summoning @Helen for further advice

 

[Helen]

@Hevel

I think vitamin D3 and vitamin K depend on vitamin b2. Sometimes i they can cause deficiencies of b2

You can try b2 with magnesium or b1 with magnesium. also look into vitamin A. and E

 

[Hevel]

My diet consists of: Sweet potatoes, white rice, green beans, potatoes, broccoli, eggs, red meat, fresh fish when I can get it, carrots, beets, peppers, tomatoes and fruits like grapes, apples, dates and mangoes, so very similar to what I always ate just without any dairy or liver(4 months since reducing all high copper/calcium foods).

I did try Vitamin E in the past and it seems to have a similar effect to Vitamin D, increasing chest tightness but without the sharp pangs I get from Vitamin K, I also got a bad reaction from adding baking soda to my drinks and supplementing Boron.

I have some B2 and B1 at home so I will try adding them and report back if I notice improvements.

 

[Nina]

Im a slow oxidizer and i don’t do good on calcium/vitamin d either, so theres that. I do better on magnesium too

 

[Hevel]

Sunbathing doesn't have the same ill-effect, strangely enough, I only have this reaction from taking synthetic vitamin D.

 

[tanedout]

Interestingly I was about to post a similar thread to this!

I’ve had issues with chest pains & tightness too - sometimes quite bad and often accompanied with elevated pulse - not sure if you get this too @Hevel ?

Recently I discovered it appears to be triggered by calcium. Generally I don’t have much dairy now, but I randomly ate a yoghurt for the first time in ages & soon after I had really bad chest pain & my pulse rose significantly. Stayed off the dairy after that, but this weekend I had a cup of tea and that resulted in bad chest pains too, just from the small amount of milk.

I was supplementing with 10,000 iu vit D every 2 days for over a year up until fairly recently & this is definitely a factor.

I read magnesium is natural calcium channel blocker, so I’ve been eating high magnesium foods over the last few days, but I think I’ll try some magnesium citrate too.

 

[Helen]

I think people take vitamin D3 which is the active form of the vitamin D vitamin

Sunbathing gets in the vitamin D not D3 and then probably vitamin D is converted to the forms which are usually tested in blood.

The conversion takes place using 450p enzymes, which are flavin enzyme and also have iron sulfur cluster and use NADPH as a donor

this is why people dont get ill effects from sunbathing. but do get ill effects from vitamin D3 sometimes.

And the low levels of vitamin D3 usually shows that the body is in slow metabolism and the body does not want to retain calcium since calcium slows down the thyroid.

But sometimes it is possible that there is a frank deficiency of vitamin D. or a deficiency of 450p enzymes. ( iron deficiency b2 , b1 niacin) and this can cause deficiency of vitamin D3 in some people.

 

[Slayo]

Calcifications, take sodium thiosulfate

 

[Slayo]

I think people take vitamin D3 which is the active form of the vitamin D vitamin

Sunbathing gets in the vitamin D not D3 and then probably vitamin D is converted to the forms which are usually tested in blood.

The conversion takes place using 450p enzymes, which are flavin enzyme and also have iron sulfur cluster and use NADPH as a donor

this is why people dont get ill effects from sunbathing. but do get ill effects from vitamin D3 sometimes.

And the low levels of vitamin D3 usually shows that the body is in slow metabolism and the body does not want to retain calcium since calcium slows down the thyroid.

But sometimes it is possible that there is a frank deficiency of vitamin D.

Can you please explain better why vit d from sun doesn't give the same bad effects ?

7-dehydrocholesterol is converted in vit d through 2 steps dependents on uv rays, then the other conversions step to the active vit d are the same as synthethic vit d, so i'm assuming that if the problem is too much calcium even sun can worsen it

 

[Helen]

Can you please explain better why vit d from sun doesn't give the same bad effects ?

7-dehydrocholesterol is converted in vit d through 2 steps dependents on uv rays, then the other conversions step to the active vit d are the same as synthethic vit d, so i'm assuming that if the problem is too much calcium even sun can worsen it

yes, but D3 is already active hormone. From the sun you get vitamin D, then this D converts into the actives. so I assume that some people by pass this regulation by feeding active Ds and it can cause some problems. for some people , but some can benefit from it,

 

[Helen]

@mattyb Has been researching hard these lately . Matty , may be you have something to add here.

 

[Hevel]

Interestingly I was about to post a similar thread to this!

I’ve had issues with chest pains & tightness too - sometimes quite bad and often accompanied with elevated pulse - not sure if you get this too @Hevel ?

Recently I discovered it appears to be triggered by calcium. Generally I don’t have much dairy now, but I randomly ate a yoghurt for the first time in ages & soon after I had really bad chest pain & my pulse rose significantly. Stayed off the dairy after that, but this weekend I had a cup of tea and that resulted in bad chest pains too, just from the small amount of milk.

I was supplementing with 10,000 iu vit D every 2 days for over a year up until fairly recently & this is definitely a factor.

I read magnesium is natural calcium channel blocker, so I’ve been eating high magnesium foods over the last few days, but I think I’ll try some magnesium citrate too.

I did experience elevated pulse, especially during nighttime, Magnesium helped with that as well, although all the benefits I got was from the Bisglycinate form, citrate and chloride were both useless.

Calcifications, take sodium thiosulfate

Interesting, I remember Ted from Earth Clinic recommending this for hair loss but using it topically on the scalp, do you think there is any risk of consuming it orally?

 

[Helen]

@Hevel Found this article Bad reaction to vitamin D supplements: why? (A-N-T)

 

[Hevel]

@Hevel Found this article Bad reaction to vitamin D supplements: why? (A-N-T)

The copper dump does make sense considering I forced myself to eat beef liver every week for 5 years.

 

[Nina]

@Hevel Found this article Bad reaction to vitamin D supplements: why? (A-N-T)

Isn’t this simply that vit d and k increase calcium? You also mentioned somewhere that slow oxidizers will feel like they are having a heart attack when taking calcium

 

[mattyb]

@Hevel

What doses have you been taking for both the K2 and D and for how long? What's daily calcium intake look like?

I went through something similar after starting K2 and have fixed it but I need to know more about your situation.

 

[joekool]

When i take clomid, I get small palpitations and it goes away with some potassium meaning they don’t occur after taking potassium daily. Idk if it can help here but it’s cheap to try and maybe it’ll help.

 

[Area-1255]

When i take clomid, I get small palpitations and it goes away with some potassium meaning they don’t occur after taking potassium daily. Idk if it can help here but it’s cheap to try and maybe it’ll help.

You probably already have high Noradrenaline/Adrenaline...most people aren't going to get Palpitations from a SERM or Hormonal Substance. Aside from high-dose Contraceptives/Birth Control Pills in Women...these are so ESTROGENIC they could easily "over-stimulate" or cause Tachycardia!!!
On the other hand, High Blood Pressure I can understand...especially on high-dose Testosterone - it happens easily. Good news is its not really dangerous if E2 is in the Right Range. Bigger chance of a SEVERE EVENT from untreated High Blood Pressure if the Estrogen/E2 level is HIGH than if its LOW. Androgen's DO protect the Heart, to a Degree - mostly the Blood Vessels though. Still don't wanna' just let your BP hang around at 160/90 for Months upon 'End though! No good.

 

[joekool]

@Area-1255 dude you're 100% right, post fin my adrenal response is horrible... it used to be an entire day I'd be tight and uncomfortable but I've been getting incredible improvements on my cycle.

And I have a BP machine, 119/81 this morning so I keep an eye... it kills the kidneys too, if left high for that long...

I still have spurts of adrenal issues... when I get super nervous and right before bowel movements but that one is improving seemingly everyday