Constant chest pains after taking Vitamin K and D.

[Area-1255]

@Area-1255 dude you're 100% right, post fin my adrenal response is horrible... it used to be an entire day I'd be tight and uncomfortable but I've been getting incredible improvements on my cycle.

And I have a BP machine, 119/81 this morning so I keep an eye... it kills the kidneys too, if left high for that long...

I still have spurts of adrenal issues... when I get super nervous and right before bowel movements but that one is improving seemingly everyday

What are you Cycling with Again???
The Anxiety around the time of Bowel Movements is likely Serotonin, activating the 5-HT4-receptors, which allows you to take a Poop by facilitating Matter through the Intestines and increasing Transit. 5-HT4 = Pooping Serotonin Receptor = too much = Diarrhea + Anxiety or one or the other.
You can use L-Lysine 4 grams, twice per day - to BLOCK the 5-HT4 - but then too much will make you CONSTIPATED.
--> L-Lysine acts like a partial serotonin receptor 4 antagonist and inhibits serotonin-mediated intestinal pathologies and anxiety in rats.
--> L-Lysine Acts as a Serotonin Type 4 Receptor Antagonist to Counteract In Vitro and In Vivo the Stimulatory Effect of Serotonergic Agents on Aldosterone Secretion in Man.

 

[joekool]

Dude that’s genius! I don’t want to hijack this thread. Sorry @Hevel

Checkout my thread

https://hackstasis.com/threads/low-dose-testosterone-promising-signs-of-a-recovery.1119/

I’ll open a new one with ya to discuss lysine. Thank you big time.

 

[tanedout]

@Hevel

What doses have you been taking for both the K2 and D and for how long? What's daily calcium intake look like?

I went through something similar after starting K2 and have fixed it but I need to know more about your situation.

What was your situation Matty, & how did you resolve it?

I’ve been taking 10,000 iu d3 every 2 or 3 days for probably about 18 months at least (stopped a couple of months back).

A fair chunk of that time I was also taking an active b complex, but nothing else consistently.

 

[Hevel]

@Hevel

What doses have you been taking for both the K2 and D and for how long? What's daily calcium intake look like?

I went through something similar after starting K2 and have fixed it but I need to know more about your situation.

My calcium intake was close to 2,000mg a day from diet alone, the pain started within 3-4 days after taking 5mg of Vitamin K2 and 10,000iu of Vitamin D3.

When i take clomid, I get small palpitations and it goes away with some potassium meaning they don’t occur after taking potassium daily. Idk if it can help here but it’s cheap to try and maybe it’ll help.

I'll add it to my list, thanks!

 

[Helen]

My calcium intake was close to 2,000mg a day from diet alone, the pain started within 3-4 days after taking 5mg of Vitamin K2 and 10,000iu of Vitamin D3.



I'll add it to my list, thanks!

This just increased your calcium too much. You are doing good that you are taking magnesium , magnesium raises potassium. so you can try magnesium with potassium, or magnesium with zinc/ plus b vitamins.

 

[mattyb]

@Hevel

Okay, it is not excess calcium that is causing the problem. It is the vitamin K2 which has liberated excess tissue calcium and depleted vitamin D. I had the exact same reaction to K2. And it was an easy fix with the right approach.

Excess K2 will rapidly deplete vitamin D, which causes osteomalacia of the sternum - that's what is causing the chest pain, eventually you will feel it elsewhere, like in your teeth. I'm assuming it is a weird pain that feels deep in the chest, right on the sternum, but your pulse and blood pressure are still relatively normal?

Keep supplementing with vitamin D at about 10,000iu per day (or better, get 30-60 minutes of tanning in per day). Keep it up until symptoms get better. Lower your calcium intake to 400mg/day or lower and keep it there until your symptoms go away (and in your case keep it low for a year or more to balance out the excess calcium intake you've had over the last few years). Vitamin D will put calcium back into the tissues so the osteomalacia will go away. Keep supplementing with magnesium.

I had chest pain for years after taking K2. Since tanning regularly earlier this year the problem is completely gone. I take vitamin D on cloudy days as well, and have been on a low calcium diet for about a year now.

Just put this in perspective, you consumed 20mg of MK-4 in four days. That's about the amount of MK-4 most people consume in two years - all within four days. That will rapidly deplete vitamin D and liberate massive amounts of calcium into the serum.

 

[mattyb]

Also, keep in mind that K2 is fat soluble, so symptoms will come and go and become more intense during periods of fasting. With lipolysis will come liberation of K2 into the body - so on days where you think you won't be eating much, increase your D3 intake or sun exposure to deal with the temporary boost in K2. When you are eating regularly, you will experience less symptoms.

Caffeine will also make things worse as well - it can stimulate lipolysis and it also liberates calcium. So again, if you are planning on drinking lots of caffeine on a day, bump up D3/sun exposure. You will have to be aware of this for a while. It won't go away overnight.

 

[Hevel]

@Hevel

Okay, it is not excess calcium that is causing the problem. It is the vitamin K2 which has liberated excess tissue calcium and depleted vitamin D. I had the exact same reaction to K2. And it was an easy fix with the right approach.

Excess K2 will rapidly deplete vitamin D, which causes osteomalacia of the sternum - that's what is causing the chest pain, eventually you will feel it elsewhere, like in your teeth. I'm assuming it is a weird pain that feels deep in the chest, right on the sternum, but your pulse and blood pressure are still relatively normal?

Keep supplementing with vitamin D at about 10,000iu per day (or better, get 30-60 minutes of tanning in per day). Keep it up until symptoms get better. Lower your calcium intake to 400mg/day or lower and keep it there until your symptoms go away (and in your case keep it low for a year or more to balance out the excess calcium intake you've had over the last few years). Vitamin D will put calcium back into the tissues so the osteomalacia will go away. Keep supplementing with magnesium.

I had chest pain for years after taking K2. Since tanning regularly earlier this year the problem is completely gone. I take vitamin D on cloudy days as well, and have been on a low calcium diet for about a year now.

Just put this in perspective, you consumed 20mg of MK-4 in four days. That's about the amount of MK-4 most people consume in two years - all within four days. That will rapidly deplete vitamin D and liberate massive amounts of calcium into the serum.

The pain did start at the sternum alongside a feeling of tightness all around chest area, a day later the pain was spreading to my left hand and then to my upper back, I didn't check my pulse or blood pressure, but I remember my pulse was higher than normal before bedtime but that could be to stress.

I try to get at least 30 minutes of sunlight everyday plus a 5 minute session with a narrowband uvb lamp, I am still hesitant to try supplementing with D3 again, I feel it's too risky at this stage.

 

[Hevel]

Quick, free, self test of vitamin D deficiency | Vitamin D Wiki
I'm not sure how reliable this test is, but since using the UVB lamp on a daily basis, I no longer feel the pain in my chestbone and shinbone when pressing on it.

 

[mattyb]

Quick, free, self test of vitamin D deficiency | Vitamin D Wiki
I'm not sure how reliable this test is, but since using the UVB lamp on a daily basis, I no longer feel the pain in my chestbone and shinbone when pressing on it.

Yeah, you're correcting the imbalance quickly. It's a very easy fix when you know what to do. If you are getting 30 minutes of full body sun on a daily basis, you definitely don't need to take Vitamin D. Skin route is always better than the oral route, no question. Just know that you are "taking" vitamin D, you are just making your own to get it. Eat enough cholesterol while you do this to, because your body will need it for the vitD precursor.

Just keep in mind though, that every time you go into significant fat oxidation, you will release K2 into your bloodstream because it's now stored in your fat cells. It will cause you to get anxious and likely experience some other side effects like chest tightness or sternal pain. The released K2 will deplete your body of CO2 via carboxylation of osteocalcin. The low CO2 will force your sympathetic nervous system to go into overdrive, because your body will want to correct the CO2 deficit by increasing metabolism - so you may feel jittery and anxious with slightly higher (but not abnormal) HR/BP. The vitamin D counteracts this, because it enhances the oxidation of glucose in the long term, making more CO2, and places calcium back into the tissues where it belongs. That way you won't experience that sternal pain. Another thing that can help the symptoms is low-intensity cardio. The excess CO2 that you produce during it will ease some of those jittery anxiety symptoms.

You are lucky you came here! I did the exact same thing to myself and it took me years to figure it all out. I still occasionally deal with symptoms if I don't eat and forget to get sun or take D3.

 

[Shadow]

Yeah, you're correcting the imbalance quickly. It's a very easy fix when you know what to do. If you are getting 30 minutes of full body sun on a daily basis, you definitely don't need to take Vitamin D. Skin route is always better than the oral route, no question. Just know that you are "taking" vitamin D, you are just making your own to get it. Eat enough cholesterol while you do this to, because your body will need it for the vitD precursor.

Just keep in mind though, that every time you go into significant fat oxidation, you will release K2 into your bloodstream because it's now stored in your fat cells. It will cause you to get anxious and likely experience some other side effects like chest tightness or sternal pain. The released K2 will deplete your body of CO2 via carboxylation of osteocalcin. The low CO2 will force your sympathetic nervous system to go into overdrive, because your body will want to correct the CO2 deficit by increasing metabolism - so you may feel jittery and anxious with slightly higher (but not abnormal) HR/BP. The vitamin D counteracts this, because it enhances the oxidation of glucose in the long term, making more CO2, and places calcium back into the tissues where it belongs. That way you won't experience that sternal pain. Another thing that can help the symptoms is low-intensity cardio. The excess CO2 that you produce during it will ease some of those jittery anxiety symptoms.

You are lucky you came here! I did the exact same thing to myself and it took me years to figure it all out. I still occasionally deal with symptoms if I don't eat and forget to get sun or take D3.

DAMN, some months ago I got hit by a very bad sternum pain, worst when I moved or pressed it. Im very very low on vit D. I tried supplementing it but at the same time some weird symptoms started to appear, I tried 2 times, the symptoms didnt resolved completely, so Im a little afraid of supplementing D3. Btw, never used K2

 

[mattyb]

Take B2 and just get sunlight then. That should be more than sufficient. I'm not a huge fan of D3 supplements either, so I always prefer the sun over D3. This winter I might get a UV lamp, we'll see. Still looking into it to see if it's worth it or not.

 

[Shadow]

Take B2 and just get sunlight then. That should be more than sufficient. I'm not a huge fan of D3 supplements either, so I always prefer the sun over D3. This winter I might get a UV lamp, we'll see. Still looking into it to see if it's worth it or not.

I forgot to say that the pain is gone. But yes, Im trying to get some sunlight everyday.

 

[tanedout]

@Hevel Have you followed any of @mattyb suggestions on this? Any improvements?

Since cutting out dairy completely, and avoiding other high calcium sources (like fish with bones) I've seen a big improvement in my chest pain situation. I'm also feeling much more relaxed - previously I had an over stimulated/high stress type of feeling, but that is much reduced.

I'm still getting a little bit of chest tightness, but nothing like before, and am hoping this will fade.

I haven't tried getting back on the vitamin d3 sups, but I've been eating plenty of salmon and mackerel which are both high in vitamin d, and I've been getting out in the sun.

I also found the vitamin K2 sups I'd taken for a bit, and it was mk7 100mcg. Whether that was a factor in this situation I don't know, but I'm not touching K2 again

 

[Hevel]

@Hevel Have you followed any of @mattyb suggestions on this? Any improvements?

Since cutting out dairy completely, and avoiding other high calcium sources (like fish with bones) I've seen a big improvement in my chest pain situation. I'm also feeling much more relaxed - previously I had an over stimulated/high stress type of feeling, but that is much reduced.

I'm still getting a little bit of chest tightness, but nothing like before, and am hoping this will fade.

I haven't tried getting back on the vitamin d3 sups, but I've been eating plenty of salmon and mackerel which are both high in vitamin d, and I've been getting out in the sun.

I also found the vitamin K2 sups I'd taken for a bit, and it was mk7 100mcg. Whether that was a factor in this situation I don't know, but I'm not touching K2 again

I thought I was doing progressively better this past month, I was pain-free even on days I skipped Magnesium entirely, but then I added Niacinamide which brought back the pain and the overall feeling of being clogged up in the chest area, I assume it's because it inhibits Magnesium or some other mechanism I'm not aware of, it's been a week since I dropped it and I think I am back to normal again, I seem to be doing well with my current stack(Magnesium bisglycinate, Potassium chloride, P-5-P, Malic acid, B2+B1, Folinic acid and Molybdenum), I will be adding Sodium thiosulfate soon and report back, at least there is the one benefit of my situation is that I can verify within 20 minutes whether a supplement is good for me or not

 

[tanedout]

I thought I was doing progressively better this past month, I was pain-free even on days I skipped Magnesium entirely, but then I added Niacinamide which brought back the pain and the overall feeling of being clogged up in the chest area, I assume it's because it inhibits Magnesium or some other mechanism I'm not aware of, it's been a week since I dropped it and I think I am back to normal again, I seem to be doing well with my current stack(Magnesium bisglycinate, Potassium chloride, P-5-P, Malic acid, B2+B1, Folinic acid and Molybdenum), I will be adding Sodium thiosulfate soon and report back, at least there is the one benefit of my situation is that I can verify within 20 minutes whether a supplement is good for me or not

Are you avoiding calcium? That's made the biggest difference for me - almost completely solved the issue. Even small amounts causes pain to come back, and increases heart rate and gives me a 'can't relax/stressed' feeling. I'm taking some D3 and that is potentially helping - certainly doesn't seem to be making it worse.

I've also added in potassium chloride again - just small amounts. Always makes tinnitus worse shortly after taking though which is weird. I might try adding in magnesium too like you're doing.

 

[Helen]

Are you avoiding calcium? That's made the biggest difference for me - almost completely solved the issue. Even small amounts causes pain to come back, and increases heart rate and gives me a 'can't relax/stressed' feeling. I'm taking some D3 and that is potentially helping - certainly doesn't seem to be making it worse.

I've also added in potassium chloride again - just small amounts. Always makes tinnitus worse shortly after taking though which is weird. I might try adding in magnesium too like you're doing.

Vitamin D3 route to increase phosphorus is a pain in the ass route. IMO Since all it does is increases phosphorus.

Since anything with calcium goes right in. So you have to stay way from calcium , otherwise you tank your metabolism. which tanks your Co2 production.




As \I said just magnesium potassium and bs. this will keep metabolism high, and and B1 and b2 makes D3 when needed for phosphorus. and calcium

this starts to keep your calcium in the body in ionized form. and you dont even have to watch out for calcium





Potassium alone will deplete b1 and b2. that is why you feel bad on it.


this is basically electrolytes protocol

 

[tanedout]

Vitamin D3 route to increase phosphorus is a pain in the ass route. IMO Since all it does is increases phosphorus.

Since anything with calcium goes right in. So you have to stay way from calcium , otherwise you tank your metabolism. which tanks your Co2 production.




As \I said just magnesium potassium and bs. this will keep metabolism high, and and B1 and b2 makes D3 when needed for phosphorus. and calcium

this starts to keep your calcium in the body in ionized form. and you dont even have to watch out for calcium





Potassium alone will deplete b1 and b2. that is why you feel bad on it.


this is basically electrolytes protocol

Thanks, I wonder if it's more down to the low phosphorus then. I think I'll up the B-complex then and add in magnesium chloride. Phosphorous is consistently low to very low on my bloods (along with potassium, which is always low, but the other electrolytes are fine). Vitamin D always fine, cortisol and DHT always high though.

 

[Helen]

@tanedout phosphorus is usually low in alkalosis. It goes inside of the cell. So in blood it shows LOW

if your cortisol is high , and potassium is low. This means that cortisol is causing your alkalosis. Cortisol wastes this potassium. It is an usual thing.


this is why when you take potassium cortisol goes even higher)

you probably have high ferritin or something

calcium increases alkalosis. thus you cant tolerate it.

In alkalosis calcium should be LOW in blood.

you need to lower cortisol and ferritin, this way , cortisol will stop wasting potassium , and PH will go down, Phosphorus will go up in blood since it will come out from the cell. and calcium will get absorbed again.

Orion seems to do this now.

Also I will be doing the same with Pedro. So we can see what works for this

it might be that we will need copper to lower ferritin and cortisol along with b1

Or just do it without copper like Orion is ding thru b1 first and then b2. but he did not do the bloods yet


So the cure for this imbalance is coming. The goal is to balance cortisol by lowering ferritin.

The only question is do we do this thru copper or we do this thru Bs.

I did it before for me with copper


I took copper magnesium potassium b1. this lowered ferritin from 400 to 70 in 25 days.

Pottassium in blood went up. and calcium in blood went up, and phosphorus went up.


but It did lower metabolism. for which I took iodine with selenium

It worked for me, I just want to make sure I want to go thru copper or go thru B2.

 

[tanedout]

Thanks @Helen yeah my ferrin is very high, almost twice the top of range. I’ll try this with copper & the other suggestions later this week (starting off slow) & report back!