Enkounter's Log

[bruschi11]

@Enkounter ferritin over 100 is not ideal, but nothing crazy. HG7 is interesting that's for sure. I mean they are taking doses of stuff that if you took those doses separately you would end up with serious issues pretty fast. But taking that combination it seems to not causing any serious problems..
Iti s basically protocol for slow oxidizers that have metal toxicities.. I think fast oxidizer who is low in copper can get into serious trouble doing it..

HG7 General Discussion - THEORY - PROTOCOL - DISCUSSION

Ok. The first forum thread has become too large, and there is tons of unwanted initial wasted space of banter of unrelated things so I am starting this fresh thread. First, the ground rules of this thread: 1. Posts must be HG7 related. 2. If you ask me about adding nutrients, the answer will...

lowtoxinforum.com

Having bioavaiable copper=good ceruloplasmin level is very important for sure. The problem is to figure out why it is low..
Excess of copper or any other toxicity or liver/adrenal/thyroid dysfunction can cause it..
In your case with CFS I can't help. Wish Helen was still around and posted some new findings if he has any..

Ferritin over 100 is good. We don’t want it below 100 as men. My buddy healed from pfs with ferritin in the 4-500s

 

[Yura]

@bruschi11 and what about TIBC if it's low? That is a sign that the body can't handl much more iron?
Most longevity people say lowest feritin as possible while having good red blood cells is ideal and I agree.
Basically we want just enough for the body to function on 100% but without any excess. Same for copper, vit A etc. right...

 

[RebelWithACause]

That Lokzo guy from RPF had ferritin in 30s-40s and he felt bad. So probably too low for him. But yea like you say Yura lower probably at least safer long term. Maybe it's too simplified though to talk about it like this because I remember Helen also said somewhere body can raise ferritin to increase cortisol production when other systems are lacking. As an example.

Helen quote about ferritin:

Also we need to look into copper. High ferritin, I saw was lowered only by copper.

and actually methionine synthase could be a copper enzyme.

and serine is made from glycine, using tetrafolate.

so when methionine synthase works, this makes tetrafolate which then makes serine. and cysteine.

so you can say that copper makes cysteine.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause of course you need copper for iron to work. Also if you push iron lower and lower you can accumulate too much manganese. All those trace minerals need to be in balance. I am not like Robbins saying everyone is iron toxic and everyone needs to lower iron. I am saying you should just watch out for iron excess. Especially if you are not bleeding in any kind of way and you eat heme iron a lot and you were doing that for decades and you are older.. That possibility that 40-50yo+ old guy eating steaks all the time has high iron is pretty high I would say.. If you are 20-30 and you eat normal amount of heme iron and your ferritin is around 100 you probably don't have to worry about it that much and as you said focus more on metabolism etc. so the body can use as much iron as possible..

 

[Enkounter]

Seeing my GP this week to pursue more blood tests for vitamins and minerals.

Got my progesterone results back and as I suspected it’s dropped slightly. I really need to work out how to increase it.

Coincidentally been looking in mirtazapine again and wondering if by lowering cortisol this would free up more prog, if it’s not being used up by cortisol

 

[Enkounter]

Tried cysteine for a few days and now added histidine too. Tried both for first time this morn and have had flu symptoms developing all day long. First flu I've had since PFS if it's legit but doesn't seem like a coincidence, seems like the supplements might be to blame, increasing mucus, sneezing, itchy throat etc.

Will come off of them tomorrow and maybe give them a go in a few days once I've recovered, see if it happens again.

Back on tribulus for now too as trying to get back to the place I was at pre-fast, which wasn't anything exceptional but was around baseline. Sleep has improved back to baseline at least, but need some libido again. Might try tongkat cycles soon too and maybe mucuna for l-dopa.

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause of course you need copper for iron to work. Also if you push iron lower and lower you can accumulate too much manganese. All those trace minerals need to be in balance. I am not like Robbins saying everyone is iron toxic and everyone needs to lower iron. I am saying you should just watch out for iron excess. Especially if you are not bleeding in any kind of way and you eat heme iron a lot and you were doing that for decades and you are older.. That possibility that 40-50yo+ old guy eating steaks all the time has high iron is pretty high I would say.. If you are 20-30 and you eat normal amount of heme iron and your ferritin is around 100 you probably don't have to worry about it that much and as you said focus more on metabolism etc. so the body can use as much iron as possible..

This is a good point. I do notice when your iron intake is higher you need more of the supportive minerals to not have it have a bad effect. Especially if you eat a lot of iron. I think it's because of what Helen said. The body uses everything (zinc, selenium, cysteine) for all other processees because there is pressure on your glutathione. Rest of it (iron, etc.) is then stored. Especially in slower metabolism. For now I am eating lower iron and notice big differences quickly. Maybe I did overdo it.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I find it quite easy to get anemic within like a month. I doubt I have massive iron stores. Maybe some people do. Like I get severe anemia pretty quick even if I have enough cofactors. It's not like those people who are always anemic no matter what. I notice within 2 to 4 weeks I get anemic. Can even be faster if I am very active. I keep thinking I have these problems but then after doing for example low iron for a while I feel like shit completely anemic white hands, no blood flow, etc.

I think it's again oversimplified like a lot of other issues. It's mostly slow metabolism which causes a host of problems with nutrients.

Then you ask how did you get slow oxidation. Partly natural if you are over a certain age probably, not even sure about that. Other side is glutathione deficiency/too much pressure on cysteine/glutathione, oxidative stress, etc which causes hypothyroidism.

And of course in that environment iron is not helpful. But if the metabolism is working properly iron will be used for cortisol, hormones (iron sulfur), etc. I seriously doubt I have high iron in liver for example. I notice it quick. My friend seems more iron sensitive, high hormones from a young age and he seems more attracted to lower iron foods funny enough. But he looks like he stores iron easily. High hemoglobin, etc. I know people like that you can tell they retain a lot of iron from a younger age. Maybe a genetic thing too.

For me I think it's probably toxic metals in the brain which disregulate things so if not taken care of you retain too much or too little of certain minerals. That's why I react well to chelation stuff probably. It feels way better than forcing in the minerals and using them to chelate. Like TEI. Still I had benefits from these minerals and vitamins don't get me wrong. But for now I will go a different way. Plus I think this is why if I eat a normal diet I instantly get problems. I have to be strict to do good.

I also know people who can eat whatever and not have massive issues. Also people who do NB and stuff. Maybe those people have more like toxic amount of stores because then the body will just not absorb the wrong stuff. They are still sick but just need to fix cofactors to use the stuff they stored.

But if your brain is f'ed up you retain the wrong stuff from food and this messes everything up. It's not like I crash from food like in PFS. More like you notice you go the wrong way. Shows that the body absorbs the wrong nutrients. If you are healthy you can eat anything and body will regulate it with hormones what you absorb.

 

[Ingeno]

I find it quite easy to get anemic within like a month. I doubt I have massive iron stores. Maybe some people do. Like I get severe anemia pretty quick even if I have enough cofactors. It's not like those people who are always anemic no matter what. I notice within 2 to 4 weeks I get anemic. Can even be faster if I am very active. I keep thinking I have these problems but then after doing for example low iron for a while I feel like shit completely anemic white hands, no blood flow, etc.

I think it's again oversimplified like a lot of other issues. It's mostly slow metabolism which causes a host of problems with nutrients.

Then you ask how did you get slow oxidation. Partly natural if you are over a certain age probably, not even sure about that. Other side is glutathione deficiency/too much pressure on cysteine/glutathione, oxidative stress, etc which causes hypothyroidism.

And of course in that environment iron is not helpful. But if the metabolism is working properly iron will be used for cortisol, hormones (iron sulfur), etc. I seriously doubt I have high iron in liver for example. I notice it quick. My friend seems more iron sensitive, high hormones from a young age and he seems more attracted to lower iron foods funny enough. But he looks like he stores iron easily. High hemoglobin, etc. I know people like that you can tell they retain a lot of iron from a younger age. Maybe a genetic thing too.

For me I think it's probably toxic metals in the brain which disregulate things so if not taken care of you retain too much or too little of certain minerals. That's why I react well to chelation stuff probably. It feels way better than forcing in the minerals and using them to chelate. Like TEI. Still I had benefits from these minerals and vitamins don't get me wrong. But for now I will go a different way. Plus I think this is why if I eat a normal diet I instantly get problems. I have to be strict to do good.

I also know people who can eat whatever and not have massive issues. Also people who do NB and stuff. Maybe those people have more like toxic amount of stores because then the body will just not absorb the wrong stuff. They are still sick but just need to fix cofactors to use the stuff they stored.

But if your brain is f'ed up you retain the wrong stuff from food and this messes everything up. It's not like I crash from food like in PFS. More like you notice you go the wrong way. Shows that the body absorbs the wrong nutrients. If you are healthy you can eat anything and body will regulate it with hormones what you absorb.

Mercury disrupts copper metabolism or (hidden) copper toxicity can both fuck with iron metabolism. So propper copper metabolism is needed in order for your body to regulate iron properly.

 

[Ingeno]

Also, in the end, Helen adviced to do chelation for most people, eat lots of sea food, swim in the sea, potassium rich foods and B vitamins during/after chelation. Which is what I am trying now.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Most heavy metals disrupt copper and iron and all other minerals. For example lead also does it. Same for aluminum. Etc. So yea I think chelation is actually good for people like that (incl myself). Better than trying to fix it with pushing minerals in and hoping those minerals push other minerals out.

Even high zinc can cause the same problems as high copper/iron/other metals in the brain for example. So overmineralisation was also a good point by Helen which is often ignored.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Most heavy metals disrupt copper and iron and all other minerals. For example lead also does it. Same for aluminum. Etc. So yea I think chelation is actually good for people like that (incl myself). Better than trying to fix it with pushing minerals in and hoping those minerals push other minerals out.

Even high zinc can cause the same problems as high copper/iron/other metals in the brain for example. So overmineralisation was also a good point by Helen which is often ignored.

reminder: magnesium will chelate aluminium, but it is not pleasant feeling (which is common for every chelation)

 

[RebelWithACause]

reminder: magnesium will chelate aluminium, but it is not pleasant feeling (which is common for every chelation)

Yup and also will chelate lead. Probably only if taken in massive amounts (to dissolve calcium from bones)