Evolution, Diet and Genetics

[noprop]

Yes both meat and vegetables are low quality now. Still meat is superior in nutrients.

Low B12 will give neuropathy. Most vegans get this in long term if they do not inject. I have not read about meat eaters having this problem.

The fact that vegans have to inject themselves with B12 (Big Pharma) shows that the diet is not natural and not sustainable without Big Pharma giving you some help.

I also wish we had quality of 100 years ago. But here in Holland I can still find local farmers if I really wanted quality meat. Right now I do not feel like spending a shit ton of money on food.

Cooked meat causes cancer. Raw meat does not. I still cook meat though I do not care.

Plant-based diet causes mental illness from deficiencies. Low cholesterol. Low saturated fat. This is why vegans often have God Complex/paranoia/aggression. That is called starving yourself.

Low cholesterol and violent crime - ScienceDirect

Unfort.even meat eater can have this deficiency. You can get b12 by eating vegan. But you need to understand how to be vegan. Al Gore etc.are vegan.

 

[noprop]

Yes both meat and vegetables are low quality now. Still meat is superior in nutrients.

Low B12 will give neuropathy. Most vegans get this in long term if they do not inject. I have not read about meat eaters having this problem.

The fact that vegans have to inject themselves with B12 (Big Pharma) shows that the diet is not natural and not sustainable without Big Pharma giving you some help.

I also wish we had quality of 100 years ago. But here in Holland I can still find local farmers if I really wanted quality meat. Right now I do not feel like spending a shit ton of money on food.

Cooked meat causes cancer. Raw meat does not. I still cook meat though I do not care.

Plant-based diet causes mental illness from deficiencies. Low cholesterol. Low saturated fat. This is why vegans often have God Complex/paranoia/aggression. That is called starving yourself.

Low cholesterol and violent crime - ScienceDirect

Meat is not superior in nutrients as plants and meat differ in lots of profiles. There is huge amount of different plants/vegis with different amino, acid, vit. and Mineral profiles and stuff meat do not have inside. Just go for Broccoli and his ingredients. Or check vit.b17. Once again: vegan is not equal eating plants.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Unfort.even meat eater can have this deficiency. You can get b12 by eating vegan. But you need to understand how to be vegan. Al Gore etc.are vegan.

Of course they push it with famous people. I think even Beyonce asked her fans to go vegan with her for a while. Does not mean it is healthy.

Leonardo DiCaprio backed that vegan movie yet he is not vegan. Bill Gates puts a lot of money in plant-based food yet he is not vegan. Because they are smart.

You can get B12 by drinking someones piss as a vegan.

Trust me veganism will ruin your health. But I do not stop anyone from doing it. Everybody can try it out. I have been vegan too in the past.

 

[noprop]

I would not go vegan style due to no saturated Fats. But living without meat is very possible for me. THX!

 

[Reverse]

What plants can you eat in Europe? I mean how do you get 70% of diet from plants when plants are low in calories?

In the summer you can stock up berries in Europe but you cannot eat 70% of your diet from v. Maybe root vegetables but again they are low in calories.

I do not believe we ate 70% plants. That is my opinion. It is not realistic. We do not digest plants like gorilla's do for example. We simply cannot extract the same nutrition out of plants that a lot of herbivores/omnivores can.

What you're saying doesn't contradict me. I'm discussing diversity of the human species, in other words, how different races developed.

Europeans or Caucasians may have eaten 70% soil foods and 30% meat or maybe it was 50/50....the diversity or uniqueness of Europeans comes from the lack of diverse vegetation they had access to. Also, they had herbs that are native to Europe and not other regions in the world.

There is no other natural substance other than soil foods that produce such diverse reactions in the body. Therefore much of the speculation about weather and landscape of modern academia being factors of diversity are probably of low influence.

 

[Reverse]

Sounds like a bunch of woo woo.

I think where you are from, temperature, landscape, amount of sun influence our genetics. This is why Europeans have light skin. We need less sun for more vitamin D (sensitive to sun) while Africans need more sun for same amount of vitamin D. (example)

Our intelligence and ability to use tools as weapons has made us the apex predator.

Meat contains so much more nutrients. It does not compare to plants. Especially meat from healthy animal.

Using plants in medicinal way can be beneficial I think.

Meat has been demonised a lot. This is why people think plant-based diet is healthy. And it will only become more in the future. Because plant-based products are cheap to produce. It is not about health.

This isn't woo hoo or about demonizing meat. Meat is good. I don't think you're following where I'm coming from.

 

[Reverse]

I just want clarify, this is not about Veganism or vegetarian or if meat is bad or good. It's about how we became who we are today and how we can possibly influence the future.

Also when I speak of plants I mean all soil foods, roots, leaves , fruits, vegetables, herbs.

 

[MNK99]

Noprop: "Being vegan prolongs life, AS meat is nowadays cancerogen. Studies showing this AS well.
Eating 30% less, prolongs life by 5-10%. "

THE SECOND statement, I completely agree with.
MOST BASIC ADVICE A GOOD DOC WILL GIVE. " EAT LESS, MOVE MORE."
OR even better: CONSUME LESS MOVE MORE. (save more, spend less... works in multiple fronts).
Consumption = toxins, meds, supps, artificial stuff. ONE-ingredient foods, easy to get healthy with.

THE FIRST, I agree with too, esp the shit they pass off as "meat". But, MNK's gotta eat! Try to only get the best grade of meats.
Fast once in a while and stay lean or leanish AND to not get all fucked up from cancer, arteriosclerosis, etc.

I always use a paper towel to take off fat from burgers or any beef, lamb, etc... red meat. And make sure it's the right grade (or ask highest grade, if I don't know).
FAST FOOD "meat products" are like 39-45% meat... they are "shmeat", as per an old old John Steward episode, "combination of shit and meat."
Maybe even 29% or less, but changes to legislation and standards may have increased them.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I just want clarify, this is not about Veganism or vegetarian or if meat is bad or good. It's about how we became who we are today and how we can possibly influence the future.

Also when I speak of plants I mean all soil foods, roots, leaves , fruits, vegetables, herbs.

Yes I understand. But this is a hypothesis right?

Plants were even more toxic then they are now. I cannot imagine humans eating 50% of their diet with toxic plants. I think humans hunted big animals. Ate from that for a week maybe and then fasted or ate small amount of plants until next kill. That is my hypothesis.

For herbovores/grazers these plants are edible and digestible. They take the minerals, vitamins from the plants. We eat that animal to get those vitamins and minerals.

I think humans are primarily meat eaters with plants for energy and medicinal properties.

 

[noprop]

Noprop: "
Being vegan prolongs life, AS meat is nowadays cancerogen. Studies showing this AS well.
Eating 30% less, prolongs life by 5-10%. "


THE SECOND statement, I completely agree with.
MOST BASIC ADVICE A GOOD DOC WILL GIVE. " EAT LESS, MOVE MORE."
OR even better: CONSUME LESS MOVE MORE. (save more, spend less... works in multiple fronts).

THE FIRST, I agree with too, esp the shit they pass off as "meat". But, MNK's gotta eat! Try to only get the best grade of meats.
Fast once in a while and stay lean or leanish to not get all fucked up, cancer, arteriosclerosis, etc.

I always, use paper towel to take off fat from burgers or any beef, lamb, etc... red meat. And make sure it's the right grade (or ask highest grade, if I don't know).
FAST FOOD stuff is like 39-45% meat... they are "shmeat", as per an old old John Steward episode, "combination of shit and meat."

shmeat, hahaha, very cool. LOL
Yeah, absolute superior meat without antibiotics and Hormons and genetically modified soy fed!!! and glyphosat is great. Here you are! But very difficult to get sometimes.

 

[noprop]

Yes I understand. But this is a hypothesis right?

Plants were even more toxic then they are now. I cannot imagine humans eating 50% of their diet with toxic plants. I think humans hunted big animals. Ate from that for a week maybe and then fasted or ate small amount of plants until next kill. That is my hypothesis.

For herbovores/grazers these plants are edible and digestible. They take the minerals, vitamins from the plants. We eat that animal to get those vitamins and minerals.

I think humans are primarily meat eaters with plants for energy and medicinal properties.

There are plants meant to be toxic like dandelion. But they have very important ingredients. Forex against cancer. The whole discussion about toxic plants started when ppl got aware oft the curing and preventive features. The same sector says vit.d can be toxic if you take more than the recommended amount.
The things widespread to the mass are not the truth.

 

[MNK99]

YES, all is fake now.
Plants all jacked up.
Cows have been turned into cannibals and even vampires. It's crazy.
EVEN ok food, is allowed to have up to 4 insect fragments by the time it's distributed. This probably isn't bad, but it's gross.
But bugs are everywhere, what can you do?

Also, a lot of the above assumes:
1. That we evolved from APES.
2. That humans did not eat their closest cousin ancestors.

 

[noprop]

YES, all is fake now.
Plants all jacked up.
Cows have been turned into cannibals and even vampires. It's crazy.
EVEN ok food, is allowed to have up to 4 insect fragments by the time it's distributed. This probably isn't bad, but it's gross.
But bugs are everywhere, what can you do?

Also, a lot of the above assumes:
1. That we evolved from APES.
2. That humans did not eat their closest cousin ancestors.

Hahaha, very good.

 

[bruschi11]

Lol if you guys actually saw what happened to me in pictures and actually in my brain on a more plant based diet.... after being on meat, fats based diets for years.

Of course we found pathogen and worked on that so that helped immensely. But slow oxidizers, chronically ill people with toxicities are going to do best on heavy veggie diets, fruits, oats, sprouted grains. Fish always has agreed with me extremely well and liquid proteins- egg white, bone broths, collagen proteins. Too much meat is tough but if I keep intake low I won’t have issues.

Look at @Cdsnuts with plant based diets post fast.

They serve their purpose. After a dude can start tolerating meats you introduce them into diet slowly and enjoy them. Just not tooo much.

 

[MNK99]

Definitely.
Vegetarian like 2 months, before became ok enough to eat nearish "normal" (which was super strict anyways).
Veggie fast kind of helped but I have no patience and was scared and in a rush.
So water fast helped a ton...
I'm sure later veggie/juice feast would help, or a short or long water fast.... but I am hoping TEI can take me the rest of the way.

MEAT, bread.... etc before that. just prolonged extreme severe misery.

I know someone - whole family on veg, he has brain cancer. Horrible. BUT doing way way better tho he's v light, but he always was.
They are sickened when they see what I eat sometimes, but also... need to eat breakfast.... I could go weeks without anything for sure, now that healthier.
IF NEED BE.
I don't think there is one... maybe cured in 70-90 days, but I'd go from v. strong to emaciated as hell.
-Probably be 8% bf then, and 6... and zero... but diminishing returns. 100 d for sure... maybe 50 d would kill me.
THE FACT I can't get any work done... could kill me alone.

Heart rate/ b.p. HIGH since like 12 -15 yrs at times (childhood, I was pissed then)... but found ways to bring it down.

 

[Reverse]

There are plants meant to be toxic like dandelion. But they have very important ingredients. Forex against cancer. The whole discussion about toxic plants started when ppl got aware oft the curing and preventive features. The same sector says vit.d can be toxic if you take more than the recommended amount.
The things widespread to the mass are not the truth.

certain Plants being toxic for us now doesn't mean they were toxic during diversification of humans.

We must also keep in mind that our genes and physical makeup were originally in a different state. Therefore the reactions would be different for us in original ancestral human form as opposed to now.

We should also keep in mind that toxic reaction doesn't automatically equal death of a gene pool. It could have meant a change in bio chemistry for that gene pool, such as how you'd get aborigines vs native americans, both have similar and yet different traits.

 

[Reverse]

Correct.
Reverse said: "
I hope it's understood that what I'm saying is diversity in human species evolved from a diet high in plant consumption. Meaning 70% plant and they ate 30% meat."
70% not sure.

I can see other asians/south asians etc, we are all like 5'11-6'2, BUT* eat differently! than our parents (or what they told us to eat, and what their parents told them to eat). ALSO, mostly I'm talking about people raised here. BUT* also, the richer ones seem to have less health probs etc (although, people only see what you let them).
I destroy 99/100 at the gym, BUT IT's TRAINING and years of practice.... and also probably being hypo/hyperactive, no patience, and a bunch of other stuff that has negative effects, but positive for motivation. IF I ate, the crazy ways back home (like in a lot of cultures - bread), I'd probably be fat. AND tired.

Explained so many times to some fm members how to get healthier, but no longer patience as an adult. So, I leave a text/ or an email, or an offhand remark.
BUT, it's also random genetic variation... Hence, why dad's uncles (90+) are all 6'2, and mom's uncles/cousins lots were/are too. AND dad's closest relatives are taller, but dad had no money.... let alone diet understanding, or money for said diet.

IN healthy times, if I eat well 80-90%++, I can eat whatever the hell and not get sick. Hell, I didn't have hangovers till 26 or so. That may have also been "training".
BUT usually I choose not to, bc then hate self... or bad digestion a day or two. SO yeah, can't eat whatever is in front of me, but don't want to either.

But "whatever works, works."
A lot of those Hollywood types (with perfect genetics) become vegan, or other similar... but trained and lived, played sports, worked out, ran around... till 35 45 , etc, then became vegan.

We have evolved the teeth for processing, chewing, and the rest for digestion of meat and veg.
I.e. "humans" are omnivores.

There's convergence over time (w.r.t. upbringing, food, medical care, etc) - of heights, age of living, etc... for immigrants that move.
It's like money... then normal life with more probs, then kids all fucked up, then their kids pretty damn good and less messed up, then maybe their kids have "first world problems" only. Richer you are, more likely your kids only have first world probs. Epigenetics, random variation, socioeconomic status play a role.

I'm the only one with asthma but more jacked then most. BUT* ten years ago, I was in good shape but skinny with a large frame, had a female cousin way more jacked than me, but her father and his brother were quite jacked in younger days (fatter in older age, with drinking and excessive eating). She's 6'1.

IT seemed, I was the only one with allergies, now... younger cousins, neices, nephews, etc have them, even back home.

If I go back home, literally EVERYTHING can kill me. THE HEAT***, humidity***, water****, insects****, allergens (nuts in all foods).
I go awol in crowded areas, and the popn density their alone was shocking as a kid, probably enraging now.

RICH cousins, etc... are gifted property and millions there... while me and brother slave away to pay hundreds of thousands and millions of tax (I will eventually), until we die. THINGS can be better there too.

BUT AGAIN***** those are wealthier relatives.

My granduncle was wealthy, went to some of the best schools in the world, had extremely prestigious law jobs... and a decent apartment, an old car, and old clothes, mostly bc he didn't give a fuck and I guess was a meiser and stuck in his ways. HE was very healthy though mostly, until 80 or so. Walked a ton. Did lots of calisthenics the decades before that, and ran. If he had kids, they'd be cray like me, and their kids... "normal" mostly...

BACK home, he'd have tons of servants, you can literally bribe your way around everything... and work 1/2 the hours depending on the job. (Not everyone).
AND like a trillion times less tax. NO tax = healthier too.

MNK99...I have a similar experience among my brothers. I developed beyond them physically and in some cases mentally as well. The major difference between us was in diet and activities. I loved to eat vegetables and fruits growing up, would even eat theirs because they left the it on the plate and mostly ate meat.

I grew taller, wider frame etc....
I also ate a diet higher in amount of vegetables than even my parents.

 

[MNK99]

I ate it all as a kid....
But was either a bit and then a lot overweight. Until 16.
Under that fat was a goddamned warrior tho. A machine.


Tall as a kid... Maybe*** more Cal's and working out at 16 made stuff grow. I do have the largest bone structure out of most relatives... But could just be random also.
Nah prolly not random... Prolly all the fasted lifts and fasted runs before that ...

Lots of fat guys have good jaws and stuff post fat loss. I'm also super obsessive ... To counter all my confusion and BC I know once in a while I will fuck up. So the rest of the time counters that. School wise, siblings etc owned me. But I'm better in other ways.

Success?
Tbd.

Getting in and out of trouble, I win there too.
Stability? Sanity? Probably lose both..

 

[noprop]

Definitely.
Vegetarian like 2 months, before became ok enough to eat nearish "normal" (which was super strict anyways).
Veggie fast kind of helped but I have no patience and was scared and in a rush.
So water fast helped a ton...
I'm sure later veggie/juice feast would help, or a short or long water fast.... but I am hoping TEI can take me the rest of the way.

MEAT, bread.... etc before that. just prolonged extreme severe misery.

I know someone - whole family on veg, he has brain cancer. Horrible. BUT doing way way better tho he's v light, but he always was.
They are sickened when they see what I eat sometimes, but also... need to eat breakfast.... I could go weeks without anything for sure, now that healthier.
IF NEED BE.
I don't think there is one... maybe cured in 70-90 days, but I'd go from v. strong to emaciated as hell.
-Probably be 8% bf then, and 6... and zero... but diminishing returns. 100 d for sure... maybe 50 d would kill me.
THE FACT I can't get any work done... could kill me alone.

Heart rate/ b.p. HIGH since like 12 -15 yrs at times (childhood, I was pissed then)... but found ways to bring it down.

Brain cancer: Do you know ECT? (Electro Cancer Therapy?) If you can find someone doing this, I highly recommend.
Additionally: organic Germanium, R-Ala, Green tea(EGCG), OPC, vit.b17 (Infusions, but very difficult to get), vit.b17 (only organic almonds), organic raspberry, gcmaf (not easy to get)
If he wants to get cured from that or at least a stabilised state, I have a contact in Germany treating ppl with high success rate. Best

 

[MNK99]

They've tried a lot. He's just a kid, 18.
But he's gotten a lot better. I think he was on a lot, incl chemo, and Lamotrigine and anti seizure meds.

Way less since taking medical cannabis.
I'll look into it. Thanks man. He's stoned all the time... But we hung out recently he and his family are in good spirits. Possibly remission or something similar.

His parents are fully committed and the dad is super smart. So they've tried tons. I'll find out more and share the links with him. Thank you.