Experimental Scar Tissue Protocol

RedStaR

Well-Known Member
Messages
73
The 5ar silencing point is outstanding here. 5ar has other metabolites than dht obviously. Actually, SAGE develops Allo Treatment. And Allo is missing in pfs patient I guess. Why not get 5ar running again to produce Allo? You would address the root problem.
But the root problem is not being addressed re 5ar defic. Melcangi just announced and did nothing in the studies.
What if there was a scientific evidence 5ar is epigenetically changed?
Anyway, bringing 5ar running could be a big step forward since I am convinced everything is related to everything.

Getting it running again can be as simple as depleting your body's progesterone, or antagonizing its receptors. A situation like that forces the body to produce more 5-AR because PRs should be one of the rate-limiting steps in accelerating PROG metabolites.

I believe this is also why alcohol and disease improve symptoms temporarily. Because they increase estrogen : progesterone ratios and PROG metabolite neurosteroid levels. Progesterone is also an agnoist of GRs, so the net effect on the immune system and 5-AR synthesis is complex, and there is more than one road that leads to Rome.
 

Rid

Well-Known Member
Messages
154
it's been about 2 weeks now that I've been experimenting with short terms fasts/calorie restriction and careful refeeding.

I've noticed a few things:

around 2+ days into a fast, my prostate/taint area will start to pulse. It's a similar feeling to when I first crashed with discomfort in the prostate, a sort of dull ache. I've been using detumescence on this area and I can't be sure that my massaging/wounding is benefitting yet, I know that something is happening. Something that I've been interested in lately is one doctor's recent opinion on PFS and why it effects us sexually: Now, remember the idea of the testosterone bell curve and damping effects (little testosterone, little growth, more testosterone, more growth, even more testosterone, reduced growth)? I think this is what we are seeing here. With a greater concentration of receptors, the organ becomes more sensitive to testosterone and at a certain point, paradoxically, that sensitivity may shut down.”

the same doctors opinion on reward pathways: Propecia is a low-dose drug, and it was supposed to manipulate testosterone only in the scalp. Instead, it had done a number on Lars’s brain, bringing on episodes of depression, irritability, and aggression that changed his life,” writes Dr. Ryan. “t’s biologically plausible that finasteride was causing these problems because we know that 5AR, the enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT—the enzyme blocked by finasteride—is heavily active in the parts of the brain known as the ‘reward pathways’… impairment of these circuits can lead to a lack of enthusiasm for things like sex and work.”

(from Recommended Reading: The Virility Paradox + 2018 PFS Foundation Annual Address - The Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation)

this completely explains why some will experience permanent improvements with using low dose 5ari's, much like I have experienced positives with licorice root. you experience worsening in symptoms, and then you snap back as your receptors readapt. I think something similar is happening when we fast, and I think it's worth combining this kind of method with very light 5ari's, or maybe even very light test boosters, but that would only presumably improve symptoms temportarily. we want to heal the receptors for a permanent change. here's one anecdote of a mostly recovered man believing in this same theory and conducting a very similar experiment with coconut and caloric restriction, (very mild 5ari) : Surely its the Androgen Receptor

Now, obviously our sexual function is just one part of this. our gut and brain health would suggest something similar is happening. but we don't know where certain people are upregulated vs downregulated, we don't know what's been atrophied and what is blocked, we don't know what is safe for one person vs what can crash another, which is why it's hard to prescribe a cure all. I guess you really gotta know your body chemistry and have your symptoms in check to really experiement with this stuff. I think there's a million things you can do to improve symptoms, but the root cause of this thing could really be androgen receptor related- in our guts, dicks and brains, and then the subsequent indirect imbalances.

so far this is the best logic I've seen as to why some feel absolutely amazing after cessation from fin (I remember being the horniest I have ever been in my life, even wanting to hire a prostitute for the first time ever) and then crash miserably a couple of weeks after. we have wacked out testosterone receptors and need to re-sensitize.

I haven't seen much literature on resensitizing testosterone receptors, but mild deprivation seems to work for many, so I will add that to this regime. it's curious- do we have too many insensitive testoserone receptors or do we have too few receptors? are there more surefire/safer ways to modulate this sensitivity?

will continue to post experiences.
 

joekool

Moderator
Messages
551
Yes! @Rid all that. Yes I’ve been saying it for months now. You, myself and others like @RebelWithACause all experience similar reactions to low hormones. Again, it’s thoerized to go back on for this reason but never do that.

Look up L carnitine L tartrate as 2G a day increased androgen receptors. You might be ripe for a simple amino like that.
 
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Rid

Well-Known Member
Messages
154
Yes! @Rid all that. Yes I’ve been saying it for months now. You, myself and others like @RebelWithACause all experience similar reactions to low hormones. Again, it’s thoerized to go back on for this reason but never do that.

Look up L carnitine L tartrate as 2G a day increased androgen receptors. You might be ripe for a simple amino like that.

I've been following your experiments, glad you're seeing progress @joekool! i'll definitely try out the sups. did you ever experience any groin/taint sensations like I've been feeling?
 

joekool

Moderator
Messages
551
@Rid I read that link you showed from the propeciahelp and he describes it 100%. Coconut oil has a GLA that's a 5ar... hemp oil and castor oil have it too... I wish we can find him because he talks about other stuff like cold hands and nail issues, which I think iodine would help him.

The prostate rumbling and spurts of libido seem to only happen in the mornings for me. Though sometimes, the longer I go without sexual interaction (whether manually or with my girl), I do get late day rumblings... nothing like PrePFS but I want to say it's there. Hard to pin point but your results are promising

Which leads me to believe one my biggest symptoms remains cortisol/adrenal related... I'm not 100% sure why or how but I get the minor feelings like you describe yes, but only briefly in the morning. Then about an hour later, I get a horrible tightening / turtling of my genitals. Though that's improving too...

Your experiments are huge and supportive... the cortisol / adrenal issue I face may be solved by Anavar... but I'm not mixing my experiments yet... this is huge tho man...
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
it's been about 2 weeks now that I've been experimenting with short terms fasts/calorie restriction and careful refeeding.

I've noticed a few things:

around 2+ days into a fast, my prostate/taint area will start to pulse. It's a similar feeling to when I first crashed with discomfort in the prostate, a sort of dull ache. I've been using detumescence on this area and I can't be sure that my massaging/wounding is benefitting yet, I know that something is happening. Something that I've been interested in lately is one doctor's recent opinion on PFS and why it effects us sexually: Now, remember the idea of the testosterone bell curve and damping effects (little testosterone, little growth, more testosterone, more growth, even more testosterone, reduced growth)? I think this is what we are seeing here. With a greater concentration of receptors, the organ becomes more sensitive to testosterone and at a certain point, paradoxically, that sensitivity may shut down.”

the same doctors opinion on reward pathways: Propecia is a low-dose drug, and it was supposed to manipulate testosterone only in the scalp. Instead, it had done a number on Lars’s brain, bringing on episodes of depression, irritability, and aggression that changed his life,” writes Dr. Ryan. “t’s biologically plausible that finasteride was causing these problems because we know that 5AR, the enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT—the enzyme blocked by finasteride—is heavily active in the parts of the brain known as the ‘reward pathways’… impairment of these circuits can lead to a lack of enthusiasm for things like sex and work.”

(from Recommended Reading: The Virility Paradox + 2018 PFS Foundation Annual Address - The Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation)

this completely explains why some will experience permanent improvements with using low dose 5ari's, much like I have experienced positives with licorice root. you experience worsening in symptoms, and then you snap back as your receptors readapt. I think something similar is happening when we fast, and I think it's worth combining this kind of method with very light 5ari's, or maybe even very light test boosters, but that would only presumably improve symptoms temportarily. we want to heal the receptors for a permanent change. here's one anecdote of a mostly recovered man believing in this same theory and conducting a very similar experiment with coconut and caloric restriction, (very mild 5ari) : Surely its the Androgen Receptor

Now, obviously our sexual function is just one part of this. our gut and brain health would suggest something similar is happening. but we don't know where certain people are upregulated vs downregulated, we don't know what's been atrophied and what is blocked, we don't know what is safe for one person vs what can crash another, which is why it's hard to prescribe a cure all. I guess you really gotta know your body chemistry and have your symptoms in check to really experiement with this stuff. I think there's a million things you can do to improve symptoms, but the root cause of this thing could really be androgen receptor related- in our guts, dicks and brains, and then the subsequent indirect imbalances.

so far this is the best logic I've seen as to why some feel absolutely amazing after cessation from fin (I remember being the horniest I have ever been in my life, even wanting to hire a prostitute for the first time ever) and then crash miserably a couple of weeks after. we have wacked out testosterone receptors and need to re-sensitize.

I haven't seen much literature on resensitizing testosterone receptors, but mild deprivation seems to work for many, so I will add that to this regime. it's curious- do we have too many insensitive testoserone receptors or do we have too few receptors? are there more surefire/safer ways to modulate this sensitivity?

will continue to post experiences.



You take fin, this stops 5AR contact with NADPH. ( fin goes in the middle between them) this upregulates AR, and 5AR expression.

You quit finasteride. And you wonder why you feel hypersexual? your 5AR is overexpressed and contact with NADPH gets back online, and AR is overexpressed.( which is proven by a study which was done on PFS patients)

You feel supersexual. But DHT action is too high and body has to downregulate zinc finger reception. BEYOND the AR receptor.

This is why taking zinc makes people feel bad. Since it increases DHT action.


Now if you inhibit 5AR, zinc goes back in. but it does nothing , unless you keep 5AR inhibited.

5AR enzymes is iron enzyme. this is why fasting helps to lower it))


This has nothing to do with AR. body is overmethylating AR . It is a fact, proven by a study.

I have no idea why you have to keep repeating misinformation. along with @joekool who thinks he runs in low test state with 100mg a week. That is FALSE.
 

Rid

Well-Known Member
Messages
154
You take fin, this stops 5AR contact with NADPH. ( fin goes in the middle between them) this upregulates AR, and 5AR expression.

You quit finasteride. And you wonder why you feel hypersexual? your 5AR is overexpressed and contact with NADPH gets back online, and AR is overexpressed.( which is proven by a study which was done on PFS patients)

You feel supersexual. But DHT action is too high and body has to downregulate zinc finger reception. BEYOND the AR receptor.

This is why taking zinc makes people feel bad. Since it increases DHT action.


Now if you inhibit 5AR, zinc goes back in. but it does nothing , unless you keep 5AR inhibited.

5AR enzymes is iron enzyme. this is why fasting helps to lower it))


This has nothing to do with AR. body is overmethylating AR . It is a fact, proven by a study.

I have no idea why you have to keep repeating misinformation. along with @joekool who thinks he runs in low test state with 100mg a week. That is FALSE.

Which study proves our body is overmethylating? (Genuinely curious)

Theres very little proven about our condition, there could be many variables that are unaccounted for, you know that @Helen. I think you've nailed down a lot of stuff, but theres something else that isn't sticking completely. Maybe I'm just bad at interpreting exactly what my body needs from your recs, but I've tried it all. It is interesting that @joekool and I both took saw p and have had similar experiences, the cold appendages and penis head deflation he mentioned seem to be common from sp folk. What are your thoughts on the differences on sp/fin Helen? To be more clear I was taking topical sp and beta sit in a a minox formula from a company, but usually just say fin for ease.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
Which study proves our body is overmethylating? (Genuinely curious)

Theres very little proven about our condition, there could be many variables that are unaccounted for, you know that @Helen. I think you've nailed down a lot of stuff, but theres something else that isn't sticking completely. Maybe I'm just bad at interpreting exactly what my body needs from your recs, but I've tried it all. It is interesting that @joekool and I both took saw p and have had similar experiences, the cold appendages and penis head deflation he mentioned seem to be common from sp folk. What are your thoughts on the differences on sp/fin Helen? To be more clear I was taking topical sp and beta sit in a a minox formula from a company, but usually just say fin for ease.


Immunohistochemical evaluation of androgen receptor and nerve structure density in human prepuce from patients with persistent sexual side effects ... - PubMed - NCBI

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/pros.21325
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
Which study proves our body is overmethylating? (Genuinely curious)

Theres very little proven about our condition, there could be many variables that are unaccounted for, you know that @Helen. I think you've nailed down a lot of stuff, but theres something else that isn't sticking completely. Maybe I'm just bad at interpreting exactly what my body needs from your recs, but I've tried it all. It is interesting that @joekool and I both took saw p and have had similar experiences, the cold appendages and penis head deflation he mentioned seem to be common from sp folk. What are your thoughts on the differences on sp/fin Helen? To be more clear I was taking topical sp and beta sit in a a minox formula from a company, but usually just say fin for ease.


What are you hormone levels?


DHT and testosterone and progesterone? do you have any tests?
 
Last edited:

Rid

Well-Known Member
Messages
154
don't have results on hand, but I'm due for another panel as it's been almost a year. I have recent mineral levels.
 

Rid

Well-Known Member
Messages
154


in regards to : Immunohistochemical evaluation of androgen receptor and nerve structure density in human prepuce from patients with persistent sexual side effects ... - PubMed - NCBI

Our findings revealed that modulation of local AR levels might be implicated in long-term side effects of finasteride use. This provides the first evidence of a molecular objective difference between patients with long-term adverse sexual effects after finasteride use versus drug untreated healthy controls in certain tissues.

wait, isn't this supporting the wacked out AR argument? I didn't see anything about methylation in either study. did I miss something?
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
in regards to : Immunohistochemical evaluation of androgen receptor and nerve structure density in human prepuce from patients with persistent sexual side effects ... - PubMed - NCBI

Our findings revealed that modulation of local AR levels might be implicated in long-term side effects of finasteride use. This provides the first evidence of a molecular objective difference between patients with long-term adverse sexual effects after finasteride use versus drug untreated healthy controls in certain tissues.

wait, isn't this supporting the wacked out AR argument? I didn't see anything about methylation in either study. did I miss something?


AR is overexpressed according to these studies. expression of receptors are done by methylation.
 

Rid

Well-Known Member
Messages
154
AR is overexpressed according to these studies. expression of receptors are done by methylation.

then we're arguing the same thing that I cited from the doctor. our receptors are overexpressed but desensitized.

can you make anything of my mineral results? all of my levels were in range, test was in lower range. can't remember if I had prog tested.
 

Helen

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Staff member
Messages
5,415
Every one I have seen who has taken saw palmetto has had high on hair test.

Do you think that means high AR?

Rid also took saw palmetto, but along with minox which is a duaretic, i guess this is why his chemistry looks like post SSRI. SSRI is also a duaretic.
 

Rid

Well-Known Member
Messages
154
Rid also took saw palmetto, but along with minox which is a duaretic, i guess this is why his chemistry looks like post SSRI. SSRI is also a duaretic.

it's worth mentioning that I was also taking topical zix around this time (zinc + vitamin b6, high dose.) although, I can't be sure it was doing anything, because I didn't get sides from it like I did from lipogaine foam (sp/minox/beta sit)

any advice on my hair labs @Helen?