Extreme anger and how stop it.

[Nobody]

I would like to start a thread about this specific issue and people who deal with it.

My anger is the worst thing about my mental health. At this point I would rather be a robot with no emotion at all than be like I am now.

Is there anybody else dealing with this issue and if so what have you been doing?

 

[MNK99]

I feel you on the anger.
If it's mood related like manic rage or adhd irritation.

Alpha GPC, as rec'd by @Area-1255.
Some other nootropics too. Choline but I'd be extremely careful. Maybe ARL, like some will say. But you'd have to elaborate what kind of issues you're dealing with. Also fasting helps my mood for sure, fasted training.

Also I try and redirect my anger to long term projects and ppl that deserve it, not randoms.

 

[Area-1255]

Anger is primarily Noradrenaline driven. It happens when noradrenaline is high and serotonin is low. Especially if its stress-related, provocation related or spontaneous emotion.
Dopamine might drive "calculated" aggression in a business context or in defending a spouse, but noradrenaline is the primary for offensive aggression. Estrogen is too, involved as a facilitating influence.

Androgens (DHT, 3-alpha diol) can promote DEFENSIVE Aggression, Wife is threatened etc.
They can influence paternal instinct and protective instinct.

 

[Nobody]

Anger is primarily Noradrenaline driven. It happens when noradrenaline is high and serotonin is low. Especially if its stress-related, provocation related or spontaneous emotion.
Dopamine might drive "calculated" aggression in a business context or in defending a spouse, but noradrenaline is the primary for offensive aggression. Estrogen is too, involved as a facilitating influence.

Androgens (DHT, 3-alpha diol) can promote DEFENSIVE Aggression, Wife is threatened etc.
They can influence paternal instinct and protective instinct.

Thanks big feller, the anger I experience is mainly a kind of neurotic, unhealthy, obsessive anger.

I'll remember something somebody told me a long time ago and get mad about it, just complete and utter irrational anger.

 

[MNK99]

Any racing thoughts @Nobody? Like thoughts, sentences, writing seperate ideas that "run into one another", or escalate and end up in anxiety attacks or feelings of catastrophization?
Wanting to prove others wrong, doubters or negative people around you?

 

[Nobody]

Any racing thoughts @Nobody? Like thoughts, sentences, writing seperate ideas that "run into one another", or escalate and end up in anxiety attacks or feelings of catastrophization?
Wanting to prove others wrong, doubters or negative people around you?

Sometimes I feel all those things. A lot of times I just feel overwhelmed by annoyance.

I know that zinc can help anger and gbolduev is a big zinc fan. I wonder how much could help, if any.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I agree if you freak out/get angry it's estrogen driven. For me at least. But when my DHT is high sometimes I feel nothing. So the balance is important. Lower 5AR (and higher estrogen) can sometimes make me more sensitive to what is happening around me for example if someone tries to play me with manipulation I notice that quicker when my DHT/5ar is lower.

When my DHT/5AR is high I don't give a shit and do what I want but sometimes I don't give enough shits and I get lethargic when it's too high for too long. You can become slacking. High 5AR can be very suppressant of stressors but sometimes those stressors try to tell you something.

For example I work with a guy at work and he keeps kind of fucking me over in this job like he tries to get recognition for the stuff that I did. So he takes my work and acts to other people in the company like he did this. When my DHT/5AR was high I did not even care about it. I became too slacking of defending my work. I even looked at him as a "friend" kind of. I didn't see it as malicious. Then once I got back in balance - in this case I lowered my 5AR a bit and changed diet temporarily - I started to notice his behaviour and addressed it accordingly.

I don't think he did it 100% with malicious intent. But I do think a lot of people run on a sort of evolutionary biology of trying to survive themselves and they subconciously do these things that make them look better in the eyes of others. He did it to my detriment though. Ironically he started to have burn out issues once I took back my place in the company. Fucking rat lol.

Same with sex. When my 5AR is high I don't see sex as intensely as I do when my 5AR is lower (and estrogen higher). High 5ar/ DHT numbs stressful situations kind of. That's how I feel. But sometimes to feel "alive" you need to feel a bit more stress. Incl. during sex.

Also when my DHT is very high I don't see flirting signs from women. When my DHT is balanced I notice women more. More focussed on them trying to pick up signs of interest. When my DHT is high I sometimes even become shy and suppressed ironically.

Just my 2c. Both are beneficial. Balance in the middle is the best - you don't get stressed too quick but you are sensitive to things happening around you.

The problem with finasteride for me it was way too strong. So you only get the estrogen/low 5ar side to the extreme. I hated life like that. I was very depressed like that a lot. Even then I would prefer high 5AR/high DHT. You can always manipulate it like that.

Helen was very right about most things he talked about this. But it was hard for me to see back then because I was doing very bad. For me anger is often estrogen. When I have very high 5AR/DHT I don't even feel anger except maybe a sort of aggression - which is not anger. Anger mostly comes from estrogen for me.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

I agree if you freak out/get angry it's estrogen driven. For me at least. But when my DHT is high sometimes I feel nothing. So the balance is important. Lower 5AR (and higher estrogen) can sometimes make me more sensitive to what is happening around me for example if someone tries to play me with manipulation I notice that quicker when my DHT/5ar is lower.

When my DHT/5AR is high I don't give a shit and do what I want but sometimes I don't give enough shits and I get lethargic when it's too high for too long. You can become slacking. High 5AR can be very suppressant of stressors but sometimes those stressors try to tell you something.

For example I work with a guy at work and he keeps kind of fucking me over in this job like he tries to get recognition for the stuff that I did. So he takes my work and acts to other people in the company like he did this. When my DHT/5AR was high I did not even care about it. I became too slacking of defending my work. I even looked at him as a "friend" kind of. I didn't see it as malicious. Then once I got back in balance - in this case I lowered my 5AR a bit and changed diet temporarily - I started to notice his behaviour and addressed it accordingly.

I don't think he did it 100% with malicious intent. But I do think a lot of people run on a sort of evolutionary biology of trying to survive themselves and they subconciously do these things that make them look better in the eyes of others. He did it to my detriment though. Ironically he started to have burn out issues once I took back my place in the company. Fucking rat lol.

Same with sex. When my 5AR is high I don't see sex as intensely as I do when my 5AR is lower (and estrogen higher). High 5ar/ DHT numbs stressful situations kind of. That's how I feel. But sometimes to feel "alive" you need to feel a bit more stress. Incl. during sex.

Also when my DHT is very high I don't see flirting signs from women. When my DHT is balanced I notice women more. More focussed on them trying to pick up signs of interest. When my DHT is high I sometimes even become shy and suppressed ironically.

Just my 2c. Both are beneficial. Balance in the middle is the best - you don't get stressed too quick but you are sensitive to things happening around you.

The problem with finasteride for me it was way too strong. So you only get the estrogen/low 5ar side to the extreme. I hated life like that. I was very depressed like that a lot. Even then I would prefer high 5AR/high DHT. You can always manipulate it like that.

Helen was very right about most things he talked about this. But it was hard for me to see back then because I was doing very bad. For me anger is often estrogen. When I have very high 5AR/DHT I don't even feel anger except maybe a sort of aggression - which is not anger. Anger mostly comes from estrogen for me.

noticed this lately when started cycling pine pollen. it kills my 5AR while on cycle, so after it my anger is way lower. You are 100% right !

 

[RebelWithACause]

noticed this lately when started cycling pine pollen. it kills my 5AR while on cycle, so after it my anger is way lower. You are 100% right !

Yes it lowers 5AR? Could very well be tbh. I thought it raises 5AR. Pine pollen helped a lot of people with PFS, always wondered what the mechanism of it was

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause hod do you know you have high or low estrogen/DHT. YOu are testing constantly? ALso how you change from DHT to estrogenic state? Diet? Supplements? I was always hypothyroids/estrogenic that's for sure. But now it switched and I was very low estrogen. I am tired of this shit where I am not able to be in some kind of balance. With diet and maybe mineral/vitamin supps. I am not talking about taking hormones or stuff like finasteride etc. I am not taking that shit ever again.
Like how the fuck I am low estrogen if I have copper toxicity as slow oxidizer wtf. It goes against everything I learned about copper=estrogen dominance lol..

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause hod do you know you have high or low estrogen/DHT. YOu are testing constantly? ALso how you change from DHT to estrogenic state? Diet? Supplements? I was always hypothyroids/estrogenic that's for sure. But now it switched and I was very low estrogen. I am tired of this shit where I am not able to be in some kind of balance. With diet and maybe mineral/vitamin supps. I am not talking about taking hormones or stuff like finasteride etc. I am not taking that shit ever again.
Like how the fuck I am low estrogen if I have copper toxicity as slow oxidizer wtf. It goes against everything I learned about copper=estrogen dominance lol..

Because in slow oxidation your body doesn't need copper anymore. You might have always been slow oxidizer and then you took steroids and kept estrogen high in a slow metabolism. Now you retained even more copper (and iron maybe) than before. So your body just shut off copper metabolism completely You said it yourself I think you were right.

My dad has the same. He never has copper issues like me, can digest wood. But I can tell he is copper toxic, very very copper toxic. But his body deals with it by just lowering estrogen to very low to not absorb more. It works for him though he's very active and never has depression or problems really. It's absurd almost you'd assume he would feel like crap but I do think the body is very smart.

Until you use stuff like steroids or finasteride like we did. Then the intelligence of the body is interrupted and now you are in a state where the body cannot keep itself lifted anymore metabolism-wise. But this is an assumption. Who knows. Before I ever touched drugs like finasteride I never had copper issues - as in I never experienced bad effects or CFS. I was the same as my dad. Very good libido. Never depressed, highly motivated etc. But once that "stilt" is gone now you are in a raw sort of state where body can't create this stilt anymore. Maybe this stilt was through DNA or some sort of gene expression from birth.

But this copper problem can also be mercury for example anything that fucks with copper metabolism. And some people don't have copper problems. They have more like mercury, lead, etc. Or iron. But you I think definitely some copper problems for sure bro. Since you took steroids for years with an AI.

The DHT/estrogen stuff I just notice it. I tested my DHT before yes way back and estrogen. But I also used finasteride so I know what it feels like to have low 5AR. Big differences in the way you think when 5AR is low vs. high. And Helen also showed that the 5AR/allopregnenolone curve is like a U. When you go too low it's bad and when it's too high it's bad. So I notice this for me sometimes I get too high on this curve I believe. And I feel bad. Then I use supplements to lower 5AR and foods and I notice within a day I feel so much better. But then when I overdo that boom, back in a shitty situation but the opposite lol

This is the same as Jack17 experienced. Who eventually went back on dutasteride in a specific regime and this worked for him. He probably had very high DHT naturally maybe. So this worked well for him. Others like when I first used finasteride I already had lower 5AR and finasteride floored it probably. Got massive issues with a lot of anxiety and stress

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause I think I got copper, mercury and other metal toxicity from my mother. That + shitty diet low in key minerals like zinc, selenium, iodine etc.. And when I got amalgams the body had no resources to deal with it. So leaky gut and from that crazy gut issues, skin issues, hypothyroid... That was even before steroids. So I can't blame that on just steroids, but they made everything two times worse for sure. Now when I think about it the body is able to somewhat function only if adrenaline is high. It makes ceruloplasmin probably go higher right. So copper is somewhat working. But every time I try to do nothing and rest/relax like nutritional balancing recommends I crash more and more. It doesn't work obviously..
It sucks so much that I don't know what is the right thing to do. Most nutritional balancing people say rest as much as possible. Not stimulate the body at all etc. and eventually the body starts detoxing and dumping copper etc.. Helen said guys just run all the time and detox the body that way.. I mena I was pushing my body with that bike riding for years after I stopped steroids. So that's why I am not so sure if I am or I am not toxic in copper anymore..
At least the hair is little better I think already after I stopped those stupid T4 pills.. That was really bad idea. I wasted another 6 months of my life taking it..

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Yes it lowers 5AR? Could very well be tbh. I thought it raises 5AR. Pine pollen helped a lot of people with PFS, always wondered what the mechanism of it was

it lowers progesterone and dht mainly while on it, and makes them work better/effective after as a ,,snap back effect". it will for sure lower your potassium levels while on it so be ready for cramps,low energy. and for sure it will make copper work efficently, so it is somethening for you Yura, just be aware that according to Helen it may take even 1 year cycling period of time.

from my experience i saw that:
-this stuff influence your tastes. first it make me want a lot of chocolate and make me even more aggresive and give problem with sleep, then after it make want meat and now it makes me want jelly (which has a lot of glycine, and glycine with histidine and lysine is working strong with copper, also glycine is relaxing BUT only when work properly with copper)
-brush your teeth with good toothpaste twice everyday beacuse retention of iron and copper will increase when you will start taking it and this can make create cavities.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

also i read somehere that it lower b9 and b12 (it seems to be true beacuse glycine alone is involwed in metabolism of b9 and b12). glycine also work for collagen so for nails skin hair.

the way i like how it works is that i do not have to deal with diet and supps. this substance is regulating my body in the way that i retain certain things and everything works on its own. i have certain tastes for certain products and i do not have to push them but i actually want them and at the same time i like them.

look: glycine affects : folate, glutathione,collagen

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Glycine-metabolism-pathways-Metabolic-pathways-involved-in-the-biosynthesis-of-glycine_fig1_326032978

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause I think I got copper, mercury and other metal toxicity from my mother. That + shitty diet low in key minerals like zinc, selenium, iodine etc.. And when I got amalgams the body had no resources to deal with it. So leaky gut and from that crazy gut issues, skin issues, hypothyroid... That was even before steroids. So I can't blame that on just steroids, but they made everything two times worse for sure. Now when I think about it the body is able to somewhat function only if adrenaline is high. It makes ceruloplasmin probably go higher right. So copper is somewhat working. But every time I try to do nothing and rest/relax like nutritional balancing recommends I crash more and more. It doesn't work obviously..
It sucks so much that I don't know what is the right thing to do. Most nutritional balancing people say rest as much as possible. Not stimulate the body at all etc. and eventually the body starts detoxing and dumping copper etc.. Helen said guys just run all the time and detox the body that way.. I mena I was pushing my body with that bike riding for years after I stopped steroids. So that's why I am not so sure if I am or I am not toxic in copper anymore..
At least the hair is little better I think already after I stopped those stupid T4 pills.. That was really bad idea. I wasted another 6 months of my life taking it..

You can only be very active/run if you support metabolism while doing it otherwise yea it will just make you more deficient in a lot of stuff. Even Helen said extreme sports require supps like B12 (and other Bs if needed). Plus other stuff like magnesium, calcium, etc if you need it.

If you have no clue I'd just do hair tests. It's better than to guess. Unless you know what supps work for you long term. Which I eventually did which sped things up a lot. Hair testing and NB is slow but it is steady. It's an annoying answer but I think if you do a year very good NB you will also be more knowledgeable to experiment on your own. This is what I did. Before NB/TEI I was very confused and didn't know what to do. Plus with NB you will make progress and get to a point where you are normal probably within a year. At least severe problems are way down. Not cured maybe but way better.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause I had hair test result, but the thing is I was taking T4, before doing bloodletting etc.. So not sure how accurate the results were, but they were basically 95% the same as the last test in 2019... Basically slow oxidizer everything low even heavy metals were very low. It was after year of stressing my body like crazy with sports betting. So I knew I will be deficient in stuff and I will have very low elimination of toxic metals.. So now I think I will just try to not push the body to any direction. Try to do least damage possible and retest next year..
The key here for me is to not forget about all this again and just wonder off completely and start to do stupid stuff again.. Sometimes it is hard to be aware of the bigger picture when you are in some stress/survival mode for some reason. You have hard time just calm down, zoom out and look at the bigger picture what is going on..
I still believe that the biggest reason for me that my body can't start dumping toxins and regenerate is because of my fucking PTSD and stress from this place where I live.
So it will be my main goal for 2026 to move out. That's for sure.. I just need to be littler better with my health so I can handle what it takes to do it. Maybe once I move my body gets instantly better because my only stress for the first time in decades will be to take care of myself. I am pissed on myself that I was not able to even try that once.. Maybe if I did I could be already much more healthy and have completely different life now..

 

[RebelWithACause]

Yea it can be a problem if you are in an environment which stresses you out/suppresses you. It's nice to live alone in that case, for me at least.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Yea it can be a problem if you are in an environment which stresses you out/suppresses you. It's nice to live alone in that case, for me at least.

When organism start work fine, there is little to no things that can disturb You.

Glycine is soothing. You can just start eating jellies everyday for 5-7 days and you should be chilled out. As helen wrote :

,,This is why glycine works for sleep, you lower thyroid and this decrease the need for adrenaline and cortisol and you fall asleep" I think that even HARIBO bears will work

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause Once I live alone I don't think I would change that ever. Maybe having a dog. Like ideally living on some farm or something. But I don't want to deal with any drama that comes with living with somebody. I am almost 40 and I am so tired of that shit. Even if you find someone who you like at first. Over time most people change a lot once they live together and there is more and more drama and some kind of mental pathology and degeneration and over time you just slowly gt used to it and next thing you know you live in hell again. I will make sure that will never happen. I envy so much people who really live alone and have real peace.. It is nice to be around people especially people you like for sure. But after coming to your place where you can be yourself and where you can think, reflect clearly not influenced by someone 24/7. That picture of ideal family/couple that we see in movies or that I watched in case of my grandparents that is not happening in my reality that's for sure. So living alone in peace maybe with a dog like I said that's my vision for the rest of my life..

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause Once I live alone I don't think I would change that ever. Maybe having a dog. Like ideally living on some farm or something. But I don't want to deal with any drama that comes with living with somebody. I am almost 40 and I am so tired of that shit. Even if you find someone who you like at first. Over time most people change a lot once they live together and there is more and more drama and some kind of mental pathology and degeneration and over time you just slowly gt used to it and next thing you know you live in hell again. I will make sure that will never happen. I envy so much people who really live alone and have real peace.. It is nice to be around people especially people you like for sure. But after coming to your place where you can be yourself and where you can think, reflect clearly not influenced by someone 24/7. That picture of ideal family/couple that we see in movies or that I watched in case of my grandparents that is not happening in my reality that's for sure. So living alone in peace maybe with a dog like I said that's my vision for the rest of my life..

Yes living alone is fine. I liked it personally. Very peaceful and it does lower stress.