FATTY LIVER

[Helen]

Been thinking, but how do others recover without treating their liver? Things such as Tribulus for instance have cured a few in the community.

http://www.intjmorphol.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/art_54_351.pdf

(PDF) Hepatoprotective effects of Tribulus terrestris L. (Zygophyllales: Zygophyllaceae) hydro-alcholic extract on non-alcoholic fatty liver-induced rats

 

[Helen]

@Goose12 @Admiral Influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on lipid profile and endothelial structure in developing atherosclerotic lesions in the aorta of rabbits on a high-cholesterol diet - ScienceDirect

 

[RebelWithACause]

It's funny how all the herbs are taken by people for their T-boosting effect. But now we see they have way more effects!

 

[Admiral]

Interesting indeed.

What about progesterone and other hormones that have cured some? How do they cure liver decease?

 

[vicecaz]

Treating fatty liver won’t cure PFS in itself, but having a working liver is definitely going to ease your recovery process whatever protocol or route you chose
A lot of hormones are processed in the liver so as to which comes first, fatty liver leading to hormonal imbalance or the reverse, difficult to say

Definitely not that simple, with a cascade of effects involved in the process

 

[RebelWithACause]

Dietary Broccoli Lessens Development of Fatty Liver and Liver Cancer in Mice Given Diethylnitrosamine and Fed a Western or Control Diet

Cruciferious vegetables are also good for helping the liver. Remember BeLikeWater and others on PH did good on brocolli. It did not last. But maybe if you give the liver some relief you feel better.

And the guy who used brocolli max (brocolli extract).

I eat a lot of cooked cruciferious vegetables everyday. Also mustard tastes good to me. I don't eat it as much now because it is high in salt.

by Lawrence Wilson, MD

Some good info from Dr. Wilson.

Also a big issue I had was the bloated stomach in the beginning. Constantly potruted. Which could be the liver.

Also androsterone is made in the liver?

Androsterone

"Androsterone is a steroid metabolite derived from sex hormones, which displays weak androgenic properties. In testes is formed from progesterone. Androsterone sulfate is clinically recognized as one of the major androgen metabolites found in urine, in males and females. It is made in the liver from the metabolism of testosterone. Androsterone glucuronide, a dihydrotestosterone metabolite, is present in serum. Androsterone is a weak anabolic hormone. (NCI04)"

 

[Helen]

Treating fatty liver won’t cure PFS in itself, but having a working liver is definitely going to ease your recovery process whatever protocol or route you chose
A lot of hormones are processed in the liver so as to which comes first, fatty liver leading to hormonal imbalance or the reverse, difficult to say

Definitely not that simple, with a cascade of effects involved in the process

70% of people or even more I would say even 90% recover from fin with zero sides. after coming off the drug.

 

[vicecaz]

@Helen
Agreed, and that's the same with people using accutane. The majority recovers just fine

But do you really believe that having a fatty liver beforehand is the cause?
Some people, like myself, used accutane at 16, with no drinking or cigarettes history, sports, perfect diet
Granted I had acne which could be an indicator of poor liver health, but not the point of having a fatty liver

Maybe that's just a wording issue, 'compromised liver' could be more accurate in describing what you mean
That's most likely true then

I'm eager to believe that these liver dysfunctions are rather a direct effect of what these drugs did to those unfortunate enough to develop PFS

 

[Helen]

@Helen
Agreed, and that's the same with people using accutane. The majority recovers just fine

But do you really believe that having a fatty liver beforehand is the cause?
Some people, like myself, used accutane at 16, with no drinking or cigarettes history, sports, perfect diet
Granted I had acne which could be an indicator of poor liver health, but not the point of having a fatty liver

Maybe that's just a wording issue, 'compromised liver' could be more accurate in describing what you mean
That's most likely true then

I'm eager to believe that these liver dysfunctions are rather a direct effect of what these drugs did to those unfortunate enough to develop PFS

I think affected people have mutations in folate cycle. and if you had acne, that means you do have problems with fats.

low glutathione from mutations in folate cycle, fatty liver, bile blockage can develop at any age.

We have POIS people and majority of them got POIS at 17 -18-20 years old, and they never took any drugs. finasteride, or any other drugs.

They could have had wrong diet for their body chemistry, mutations, low glutathione, some heavy use of antibiotics. etc.


Then you have heavy steroids abusers. Most of them develop fatty liver. We had tons of those with POIS on our forum. Then they are predisposed to crashes from finasteride. or from even an infection. We had some people crash in PSF style from infection, and never recover.

We had people crash PFS style from vaccines. And never recover


Then you have drug users, pot smokers. etc CB1 receptor directly causes fatty liver. The Role of Endocannabinoids System in Fatty Liver Disease and Therapeutic Potentials @bruschi11

We had ton of those on POIS forum.

 

[Helen]

@vicecaz

I was personally diagnosed with fatty liver, may be half a year before I took finasteride, and got POIS from it.

it takes 3 years to fix fatty liver all the way. depending how long it has been. This is why propecia help forum had gazzillion relapses where people claimed recovery only to find out 3-4 months later that they slipped right back in.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

It's funny how all the herbs are taken by people for their T-boosting effect. But now we see they have way more effects!

my opinion is offtop, but is explication of your sentence. the same thing we can write about any drug, even simple paracetamol affects a lot of systems of our body.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

I think affected people have mutations in folate cycle. and if you had acne, that means you do have problems with fats.

low glutathione from mutations in folate cycle, fatty liver, bile blockage can develop at any age.

We have POIS people and majority of them got POIS at 17 -18-20 years old, and they never took any drugs. finasteride, or any other drugs.

They could have had wrong diet for their body chemistry, mutations, low glutathione, some heavy use of antibiotics. etc.


Then you have heavy steroids abusers. Most of them develop fatty liver. We had tons of those with POIS on our forum. Then they are predisposed to crashes from finasteride. or from even an infection. We had some people crash in PSF style from infection, and never recover.

We had people crash PFS style from vaccines. And never recover


Then you have drug users, pot smokers. etc CB1 receptor directly causes fatty liver. The Role of Endocannabinoids System in Fatty Liver Disease and Therapeutic Potentials

We had ton of those on POIS forum.

We have to see this, like 17 yrs old guy getting POIS as a process, but not as something what happen just like that. We have to see the roots, to treat the cause:
Person who have POIS:
1. Was breastfeeded to short
1a. this person had family problems due to ,,western communism like marcuse, adorno shit'' propaganda
2.This person eat too soft food, whith too much sugar
3.This person start with comupter smartphone as a person younger than 10 y old
4.This affect his excitatory systems. He gets in the end too much DHT, histamine , cortisol
5.Effect is they have weak bones, and weak blood vessels,


6.Effect is weak circulatory systems. So hairloss as well.

 

[tanedout]

Choline requirements apparently depend on genetics, and estrogen which seems a bit surprising?

Humans eating low choline diets develop fatty liver and liver damage,. This dietary requirement for choline is modulated by estrogen and by single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in specific genes of choline and folate metabolism.

Choline influences liver function, and the dietary requirement for this nutrient varies depending on an individual’s genotype and estrogen status. Understanding these individual differences is important for gastroenterologists seeking to understand why some individuals develop NAFLD and others do not, and why some patients tolerate total parenteral nutrition and others develop liver dysfunction.

Choline Metabolism Provides Novel Insights into Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease and its Progression

 

[tanedout]

Wouldn't be surprised if the root cause of our issues was down to one of these

Bile Acid Synthesis Disorders - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)

Bile acid synthesis disorders (BASDs) are a group of rare metabolic disorders characterized by defects in the creation (synthesis) of bile acids. Bile acids are chemical compounds found in the liver that have several roles in the body including promoting the flow and excretion of bile and assisting in the intestinal absorption of fat and fat-soluble vitamins. Bile acids are formed from cholesterol and, therefore, bile acid synthesis serves as the main pathway in breaking down and eliminating cholesterol from the body (cholesterol degradation). The failure to produce normal or functional bile acids results in the accumulation of abnormal bile acids and other substances that normal would be broken down (intermediary metabolites) within the body. The resulting accumulation of abnormal bile acids, intermediary metabolites and cholesterol in the body can damage certain organ systems. The main symptom of most (but not all) BASDs is interruption or suppression of the flow of bile from the liver (cholestasis) and fat-soluble vitamin malabsorption. Additional symptoms such as progressive neurological disease may develop in certain cases and can occur in the absence of liver disease.

 

[supernature]

Of course it is, not one but maybe a few of these. All this happen in the liver and affect major functions.

 

[Helen]

Wouldn't be surprised if the root cause of our issues was down to one of these

Bile Acid Synthesis Disorders - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)

I wrote it all out in electrolytes protocol,. finasteride impairs and inhibits 5 beta reductase which produces bile acids.

5[beta]-reductase (AKR1D1) deletion drives hepatic inflammation, fibrosis and tumour development in vitro and in vivo | ECE2019

you see inhibiting 5 beta reductase transforms NAFLD into NASH.

and worsens already existing NAFLD ( fatty liver) which people had before taking all this junk drugs. @vicecaz

 

[Helen]

So a person has NAFLD , takes fin, gets NASH and you are done.

 

[tanedout]

So a person has NAFLD , takes fin, gets NASH and you are done.

It's easy to see how things turn into a vicious circle too.

Impaired bile acid metabolism -> inability to absorb fat soluble vitamins and other nutrients -> SIBO etc takes hold (lack of bile to control bad bacteria) -> bile acid synthesis further impaired as you can't absorb nutrients like choline properly -> gut health gets worse -> just becomes a spiral from here.

Maybe the best course of action is supplements to support bile acid metabolism (so you can absorb nutrients properly) like maybe:

- TUDCA/UDCA
- SAMe
- Choline
- maybe taurine &/or glycine

Along with TEI/ARL to provide the required nutrients based on your individual requirement?

 

[tanedout]

I wrote it all out in electrolytes protocol,. finasteride impairs and inhibits 5 beta reductase which produces bile acids.

5[beta]-reductase (AKR1D1) deletion drives hepatic inflammation, fibrosis and tumour development in vitro and in vivo | ECE2019

you see inhibiting 5 beta reductase transforms NAFLD into NASH.

and worsens already existing NAFLD ( fatty liver) which people had before taking all this junk drugs. @vicecaz

Would be good to get this tested, but I have no idea how that would be done?

DELTA4 3-OXOSTEROID 5BETA REDUCTASE DEFICIENCY
This disorder is sometimes referred to as 5beta-reductase deficiency or bile acid synthesis defect 2. The clinical picture of this disorder is similar to that of 3beta-dehyddrogenase deficiency, but generally is more severe and, if untreated, can rapidly progress to cirrhosis and liver failure. 5beta-reductase deficiency can present as neonatal cholestasis or as liver failure that resembles liver disease seen in neonatal hemochromatosis (for more information, choose “neonatal hemochromatosis” as your search term in the Rare Disease Database.)

Bile Acid Synthesis Disorders - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)

 

[Helen]

It's easy to see how things turn into a vicious circle too.

Impaired bile acid metabolism -> inability to absorb fat soluble vitamins and other nutrients -> SIBO etc takes hold (lack of bile to control bad bacteria) -> bile acid synthesis further impaired as you can't absorb nutrients like choline properly -> gut health gets worse -> just becomes a spiral from here.

Maybe the best course of action is supplements to support bile acid metabolism (so you can absorb nutrients properly) like maybe:

- TUDCA/UDCA
- SAMe
- Choline
- maybe taurine &/or glycine

Along with TEI/ARL to provide the required nutrients based on your individual requirement?

yes, this is what I got to in 2012. and this is what electrolytes protocol was.

check out phospholipids used in it. I know several people who cured CFS using those. https://hackstasis.com/threads/electrolyte-protocol-for-improved-health.523/