FATTY LIVER

[Admiral]

It's easy to see how things turn into a vicious circle too.

Impaired bile acid metabolism -> inability to absorb fat soluble vitamins and other nutrients -> SIBO etc takes hold (lack of bile to control bad bacteria) -> bile acid synthesis further impaired as you can't absorb nutrients like choline properly -> gut health gets worse -> just becomes a spiral from here.

Maybe the best course of action is supplements to support bile acid metabolism (so you can absorb nutrients properly) like maybe:

- TUDCA/UDCA
- SAMe
- Choline
- maybe taurine &/or glycine

Along with TEI/ARL to provide the required nutrients based on your individual requirement?

I am on TEI, TUDCA and Same for 3 months now. Currently on a break since I lost hope in TEI, but I noticed we have little else. Will likely continue shortly as it at least give me some calmness.

I'll also add Green tea extract.

 

[Helen]

@tanedout check electrolytes protocol, I wrote out which bile acids people miss after finasteride

 

[Helen]

@tanedout Delta 4-3-oxosteroid 5 beta-reductase deficiency: failure of ursodeoxycholic acid treatment and response to chenodeoxycholic acid plus cholic acid.

you see this is why I used certains bile acids in electrolytes protocol.

 

[TubZy]

So a person has NAFLD , takes fin, gets NASH and you are done.

So what happens when someone goes back on dut/fin like @Jack17 ? If he has fatty liver to start with and PFS and then goes back on dut with a bad liver and feel 95%-100% normal again? Shouldn't he feel even worse since his fatty liver would be getting worse?

 

[bruschi11]

Interesting indeed.

What about progesterone and other hormones that have cured some? How do they cure liver decease?

Changing a hormonal profile will always either hurt or help some sort of the system. Everything affects everything. And changing a hormonal profile is an extremely strong example for that.

 

[Canari]

I have normal enzymes but both pancreas and liver are not great since ever....
But I just have high cholesterol, including the good one.

How do you know if your liver problem is "fatty liver"? What else can it be?
I just know that bodyworkers tell me they find my liver congested.

 

[Canari]

allasezia restricta. it is fungus which eats OIL>

since oil is not being absorbed in the intestine. this fungus then kills benefical bacteria in the colon and you get deficient in butyric acid. which modulates tons of stuff in the body, butyric acid is antifungal itself. it is HDAC, and gaba agonist.

Is there already a talk on this fungi?

 

[Nina]

I have normal enzymes but both pancreas and liver are not great since ever....
But I just have high cholesterol, including the good one.

How do you know if your liver problem is "fatty liver"? What else can it be?
I just know that bodyworkers tell me they find my liver congested.

I think since you are keto/carnivore, chance of fatty liver is low for you

 

[supernature]

the liver needs tons of sodium and chloride... but mainly sodium
i read old books claiming kelp(sodium and chloride source) is amazing for liver
also beet root and cabbage

What makes salt so good for the liver, does it say in those old books ?

 

[Canari]

Mallassezia restricta has more to do with crohn
The gut mycobiome of the Human Microbiome Project healthy cohort
A fungus usually found on skin might play a role in Crohn's disease

 

[Helen]

Sodium butyrate attenuates high-fat diet-induced steatohepatitis in mice by improving gut microbiota and gastrointestinal barrier. - PubMed - NCBI


This explains how GHB worked for people @MCurtone

 

[Nina]

Btw, i also see a lot of people with IBS and Crohns on keto forums and they claim it cures them. Might be the same for other colon related issues

 

[supernature]

provides sodium and chloride, i would not use table salt ... celtic sea salt and seaweeds like bladderwrack only for me.

I meant the way they say it about the salt and the liver in those old writings, the way they presented it.

 

[HerrFisch]

Btw, i also see a lot of people with IBS and Crohns on keto forums and they claim it cures them. Might be the same for other colon related issues

Cure is always a funny word. Cure and remission can look really similar to people. And I think people can get into lifelong remission if their metabolism really slows down and they dont do things that cause any increase in metabolism. Like matty said happens with some older people. Not sure how much high fat or keto could contribute to that. So yes, keto probably can keep you in remission.

I had years of no issues. Was just undereating, mostly sugar and drinking alc. But I was not cured. (I think undereating was the big factor of why I had no issues, but who knows lol)

Its a cure if they can stop doing keto, do certain things and and not get in a flareup.

 

[Nina]

Cure is always a funny word. Cure and remission can look really similar to people. And I think people can get into lifelong remission if their metabolism really slows down and they dont do things that cause any increase in metabolism. Like matty said happens with some older people. Not sure how much high fat or keto could contribute to that. So yes, keto probably can keep you in remission.

I had years of no issues. Was just undereating, mostly sugar and drinking alc. But I was not cured. (I think undereating was the big factor of why I had no issues, but who knows lol)

Its a cure if they can stop doing keto, do certain things and and not get in a flareup.

Ah yes remission would be a better word. I think it's mostly due to avoiding certain foods and not so much about carbs but i don't have it myself so idk.

 

[Reverse]

As we look at dutasteride and finasteride cases, we see that 70% or more of people come off those and experience no side effects, no PFS .

this tells us that there is some condition which has to be met to crash from those. And that condition might be a fatty liver.

Helen, I humbly disagree with 70% of people not having side effects. Its probably closer to 30% not having side effects and even that is probably too conservative a number.

Fin is an inhibitor, same as steroids. No one takes steroids and then stops them with no harm done except for maybe cases where men do PCT.

How do you come to the 70% number?

 

[supernature]

provides sodium and chloride, i would not use table salt ... celtic sea salt and seaweeds like bladderwrack only for me.
you can look up what functions sodium and chloride have in the body especially in the liver... btw sodium and chloride are macro minerals.

https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Hunger-Search-Salty-Taste/dp/0521018420

Its 28 y.o. book, i thought you've came across some quite old one like 1940s, but i see now the references in the book you suggest go as back as 1920s, 1930s so i see what you mean by saying old books. Its always interesting to look at a 100 y.o. book, how they coupled all that matter back then. I cook with rocks of sea salt, might not be celtic but a regular one, at least have sodium, i can tell.

 

[Goose12]

Sex Hormones and Their Receptors Regulate Liver Energy Homeostasis

Interesting article about hormones and liver. Makes me wonder if dht helps regenerate the liver? There is a lot of info on e2 but only a small section on dht.

 

[freeflow]

Androsterone( r andro) increased my bile production the most.