Fight post fin with fin?

[IHateFin]

I wouldn't say its outdated, he appears to have changed his protocol quite a bit now.
His older protocol was more about directly getting DHT into a certain range, and now it's turned into a whole thing with demethalyzation.
The guy was clearly getting results from zinc but they didn't stick because zinc was a temporary solution.
I'm very tempted to try the low-dose finasteride every 3 days and see how I feel.

When did you crash?
I feel like this could be mainly a solution if you recently crashed as opposed to someone who crashed years ago and has progressively got better and changed their hormone homeostasis to something else

 

[PFStinks]

When did you crash?
I feel like this could be mainly a solution if you recently crashed as opposed to someone who crashed years ago and has progressively got better and changed their hormone homeostasis to something else

It's been about 5 months since I've crashed. I think I'll wait it out for another week and make a decision then.

 

[IHateFin]

It's been about 5 months since I've crashed. I think I'll wait it out for another week and make a decision then.

Good plan!
Have you made any improvements on your own in the last 5 months?

 

[PFStinks]

Good plan!
Have you made any improvements on your own in the last 5 months?

There was one week where I was using cysteine, potassium, magnesium and copper and I felt amazing during it. But I think I started going overboard with the magnesium and started getting diarrhea, and lost my results. I tried to take the lower doses again and it just didn't work the same. I've also tried digestive enzymes, HCL, with B vitamins and Vitamin C and it didn't really help me either. The only thing thats helped me recently is the high dose zinc (100mg) every other day for the past week.

 

[IHateFin]

There was one week where I was using cysteine, potassium, magnesium and copper and I felt amazing during it. But I think I started going overboard with the magnesium and started getting diarrhea, and lost my results. I tried to take the lower doses again and it just didn't work the same. I've also tried digestive enzymes, HCL, with B vitamins and Vitamin C and it didn't really help me either. The only thing thats helped me recently is the high dose zinc (100mg) every other day for the past week.

Zinc helped me for a bit but it was low dose like 25mg. Oddly it killed my wood a bit and I still felt amazing until it started making me feel crappy haha

I wonder if it was more so zinc lowering copper too much as I hadn't supplemented with it at all at that time.
Maybe if zinc starts to not work copper can be taken to lower it an maybe make zinc work again? I dunno.

Have you tried coconut oil to lower dht or even tomato juice? Might be a better option before low dose fin

 

[PFStinks]

Zinc helped me for a bit but it was low dose like 25mg. Oddly it killed my wood a bit and I still felt amazing until it started making me feel crappy haha

I wonder if it was more so zinc lowering copper too much as I hadn't supplemented with it at all at that time.
Maybe if zinc starts to not work copper can be taken to lower it an maybe make zinc work again? I dunno.

Have you tried coconut oil to lower dht or even tomato juice? Might be a better option before low dose fin

Yeah I think there's some truth to the balance between zinc and copper for getting either of them to work.
I read somewhere that taking small doses of zinc doesn't actually reduce DHT that much and can actually increase DHT, you should try doing 100mg+ and see how you feel the next day, if you feel terrible then try something like creatine and see how that makes you feel.

 

[PFStinks]

Zinc helped me for a bit but it was low dose like 25mg. Oddly it killed my wood a bit and I still felt amazing until it started making me feel crappy haha

I wonder if it was more so zinc lowering copper too much as I hadn't supplemented with it at all at that time.
Maybe if zinc starts to not work copper can be taken to lower it an maybe make zinc work again? I dunno.

Have you tried coconut oil to lower dht or even tomato juice? Might be a better option before low dose fin

Haven't people recommended against coconut oil because its bad for digestion/causes diarrhea in some cases? Also I think tomato juice (lycopene) only inhibits 5ar type 1 whereas finasteride inhibits 5ar type 2 so I'm not sure its exactly recreating the same effect

 

[IHateFin]

Haven't people recommended against coconut oil because its bad for digestion/causes diarrhea in some cases? Also I think tomato juice (lycopene) only inhibits 5ar type 1 whereas finasteride inhibits 5ar type 2 so I'm not sure its exactly recreating the same effect

I have not heard anything like that, but I think from moderate use or even just eating foods that use coconut oil instead of vegetable oil may be of benefit.

Ah I didn't know that. Yeah I wouldn't wanna inhibit 5AR1 since that's usually the one most prominent in the CNS and brain. I think lowering 5AR in the rest of the body creates a feedback loop to increase it in the brain which also improves androgen sensativity I believe. Many believe PFS is the axis in the brain that's screwed up.

 

[IHateFin]

http://ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.1200/jco.2005.03.4777

I can't read the full text of this article, but it describes in the abstract possibilities of AR binding stregnth depending on " changes in the level of ligand(s) in tumor tissue; (2) increased levels of the protein due to gene amplification or altered mRNA expression"

Maybe androgen receptors have not been "upregulated or down regulated" persay but rather alterations in binding ligands and or proteins which will amplify or reduce the amount of androgen signaling.

Is there anyway to increase these proteins?
I'll have to look into some stuff when I get home or between calls at work haha

 

[IHateFin]

Androgen increases androgen receptor protein while decreasing receptor mRNA in LNCaP cells. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[PFStinks]

Androgen increases androgen receptor protein while decreasing receptor mRNA in LNCaP cells. - PubMed - NCBI

This is getting into territory way over my head so I hope others here can extrapolate something from this.
Oh also, unrelated to this, I wonder if DHT blocking shampoos like Nizoral could help with the DHT pinging theory.
On the other end of the spectrum I wonder if people here feel better or worse after drinking coffee, which is shown to increase DHT.

 

[IHateFin]

This is getting into territory way over my head so I hope others here can extrapolate something from this.
Oh also, unrelated to this, I wonder if DHT blocking shampoos like Nizoral could help with the DHT pinging theory.
On the other end of the spectrum I wonder if people here feel better or worse after drinking coffee, which is shown to increase DHT.

Yeah my brain hurts from reading into these articles lol

i have been taking super low androsterone like 20mg pill form and eating this snack made with coconut oil last few days through out the day and i have made lots of imp[rovements in the mood and hair shed territory. coconut oil lauric acid decreases dht but doesnt pass blood brain barrier so 5ar in the brain should be untouched which is how it should be.

 

[IHateFin]

Update Lauric acid, myristic Acid (Coconut Oil) and Hairloss

So appearantly coconut oil reduces dht comparable to fin. Maybe a safer way to increase androgen receptor sensativity

 

[hairsuit]

I have to say..... after reading a bunch of these articles yesterday, I took 100mg of zinc just to see if anything positive or negative happened.... literally for the first time in months, an hour later, it felt like my head was taken out of a vice and put back on top of my body. Too soon to tell? Placebo? Maybe, but it was a distinct difference. I will continue with this every other day just to see if any improvements continue, especially in the sexual department.

 

[IHateFin]

I have to say..... after reading a bunch of these articles yesterday, I took 100mg of zinc just to see if anything positive or negative happened.... literally for the first time in months, an hour later, it felt like my head was taken out of a vice and put back on top of my body. Too soon to tell? Placebo? Maybe, but it was a distinct difference. I will continue with this every other day just to see if any improvements continue, especially in the sexual department.

Nice man!! Keep us posted

 

[IHateFin]

Estrogen has an affinity for the androgen (dht) receptor. I wonder if that works like a partial agonist or a full antagonist? Maybe that's why when my estrogen is up from aromitizing prohormones I feel good or why estrogen makes androgens sensitive and possibly why taking estrogen and dht is supposedly the perfect bandaid for pssd

 

[IHateFin]

Abstract

Male rats castrated at 30 days of age were treated with estradiol benzoate (dose range: 0.05–50 μg EB for 26 days) and dihydrotestosterone (1 mg DHT for 36 days) as adults. The combined EB and DHT treatments resulted in display of male sexual behavior which did not differ from the behavior shown by intact untreated males or castrated, testosterone propionate (1 mg TP for 26 days) treated males. EB alone or DHT alone were relatively ineffective in activating male behavior in castrated males.


Sexual behavior in male rats treated with estrogen in.... Available from: Sexual behavior in male rats treated with estrogen in... [accessed Apr 26 2018].

 

[BeLikeWater]

Asking this question on 2018 xD. Look at Dr.Melcangi study of PFS patients and their 5ar metabolites in plasma and CNS. Its a must study to research PFS.

 

[IHateFin]

@PFStinks hey man how you been the last week?

After I lost my progress in mid April it's been an emotional struggle. Mental sides have me the most rn.

 

[PFStinks]

@PFStinks hey man how you been the last week?

After I lost my progress in mid April it's been an emotional struggle. Mental sides have me the most rn.

I was reading up on Ella, and decided to try it before going back on finasteride. I did 5mg last night and woke up feeling better than the day before. I just did another 5 mg and I'll let you know how it goes.