Haircolor - Iron & Copper connection

[HerrFisch]

Something I came across multiple times while searching the web was that Redheaded People have copper problems.
Particularly being copper toxic.

And apparently redheads are prone to having pyroluria.

Its interesting, that the so often claimed "temper issues" could be well connected to copper problems.
-- Another thing is that Redheads rarely get grey. Its more like their color fades.
- Redheads changing to brown with high dose zinc.

My thoughts were, if Redheads really are copper toxic and dont get grey, its possible that they keep really good low levels of iron. Probably even better than females already do.

I used to have red hair when I was young, and I was hot-tempered then. I was so hot-tempered at age 12 that I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. I had the explosive rage thing associated with pyroluria (btw, pyro. Before age 12, I was spanked a bit for bad behavior.

Anyway, my hair is light brown today.

My red hair while young was due to high copper levels because since I've started taking mega-doses of zinc (250mg on average), I lost the red color as a result of the copper depletion, and my hair has become light brown. I'm also a much calmer person, so my improved temperament now reflects the improved zinc/copper ratio. I had a Hair Mineral Analysis done back last summer, and my zinc/copper ratio was 20:1; 8:1 is ideal, and anything below that isn't good.

Basically, after I started taking zinc supplements, everyone was talking about how my hair was getting much lighter and much less red than before.

Zinc is a copper antagonist. Zinc deficiency causes copper to build up in the body.

Copper toxicity is very much linked to mental illness such as bipolar, schizophrenia, autism, anxiety, depression, and more. Many aggressive and hyperactive people are often found to have elevated copper.


I DO have the Pyroluria thing that I had posted about and had read that 99% of red heads have. I've been taking 300-450mg of Zinc (anything less, and I become deficient) and 300mg of active form of B6 (P5P) for it. I no longer have the temper problems I had before correcting this thing. Pyroluria is a hemoglobin disorder where excessive kryptopyrrole enzymes are released into your bloodstream. They bind to Zinc and B6, and as a result, those 2 nutrients are taken out of your body fast thru your urine. You then become severely deficient in them, and mental and physical symptoms result.


The prefix "pyro" means relating to the action of fire and heat.
For example, firecrackers are outdoor pyrotechnic devices. They have explosive effects.

A person with the chemical imbalance pyroluria tends to get heated up quick and have fiery tempers (20% of bipolars are pyroluric). The color red is also associated with heat and fire. Hence, many with this chemical imbalance having red hair. "

Now to the opposite.
Something @Potion already mentioned and noticed :

More than three quarters of white men I have seen that have at least 50/50 salt-and-pepper hair (silver foxes) have nearly no hair loss. I met such a man yesterday, and there is such a man ten meters from me right now: he is fifty years old, went salt-and-pepper at thirty, and has absolutely zero hair loss on his entire scalp; his hairline is immaculate and so dense it crowds his forehead. I have looked through the labs of both men and have found nothing outstanding. I can't recall the distribution of dark and light hairs in all such men I've encountered, but yesterday's man and today's man are both about 75% light hairs, with the residue being black or dark gray. The man yesterday eats all manner of foods, the predominance being red meat (he said he's a farm boy who eats also a lot of vegetables). The man here now is in a methadone drug rehab program; he too eats a lot of vegetables, but eats TV dinners every night. Both men enjoy the cruciferous vegetables, each mentioning broccoli and cauliflower. Broccoli is a known hyperaccumulator of selenium.

Why this remarkable association? I have seen many men with this feature. I am so confident in this correlation, I would bet great sums of money there is a definitive, mutual causation. Whatever leads to the change in their hair color is protecting them from gross alopecia.

Has anyone else noticed the same?

There are lots of people with hemochromatosis (increased iron uptake) getting gray hair really early on.


So too much ROS without Catalase which is an iron based enzyme, leads to grey hair. If its h2o2 bleaching the hair which some claim or even tyrosine or melanine getting destroyed. Idk yet.

But I would tend to say that real iron deficiency is rare and definitely not the reason for grey hair. Its rather deficiency from toxicity. One is short often short term, toxicity long term.


Typical and quite famous hemochromatosis dude :

Back to potions quote, I noticed that same.
Ive actually seen a bunch of hemochr. dudes that have the best hair but get gray hair strands pretty quick.
But there are also dudes with hemo. being bald. .

Its proven that redheaded people have way less hair count but thicker hair.
Redheads ~90k
Blondes ~110 k
Brunettes ~140k

Iron toxicity = grey hair
Copper toxicity = saves you from getting grey ?

Dont know if its possible continue @Potion 's claim and say that people with hemochromatosis and thus high toxic iron levels which could lead to actually low available iron, could prevent them from hairloss.
By antagonizing copper and therefore keeping Iron and Copper low.
In comparison with the ideal -Copper and Iron levels being low - it looks pretty similar but with the sideeffects that come with the iron toxicity. Aka liver disease, diabetes ...

But thats all assumptions. You got any ?
Add them in the comments and dont forget to subscribe.
Byee

 

[MNK99]

-80k haircount??? that's amateur hour. i lost like 200k hair at least. IN days. FINE thick ish black hair tho... then finer, then electrocuted, then straight somehow...
-30-70k lost in days for sure.
-My hair's seen a lot of warfare. ALSO MIND + SOUL.
-SOME REDHEADED GIRLS are pretty damn great thO! Also tinted/brunettes, YEAH, SON!!! NOT RED HEADED STEP CHILDREN THO. (NO OFFENSE TO ORPHANS).

 

[HerrFisch]

Redheaded girls can be awesome, actually I'm really into ^^. Maybe bc I lack copper ? Jk

 

[Helen]

Red heads I thought were full of manganese. Iron and copper are manganese antagonists. Iron is right there next to it in the periodic table.


Zinc lowers manganese. that person started to take zinc and lowered manganese


That is why they found that every person with hairloss had manganese deficiency.

Whenever I take copper or iron, I notice grey hairs, when zinc and manganese always took it away.


H20 regulation cant be screwed in in 10 different spots.

 

[Helen]

I get grey from taking copper. And i get not grey from taking manganese. Manganese is the SOD in mito. SO when manganese is there, IRON is allowed. when iron is allowed it gets rid of grey everywhere else.

 

[HerrFisch]

@Helen

Sou you think Redheads have high manganese pushing out the copper?
Redhair really looks like copper

Redheads always have a lot of freckles. You think that is like moles ?

 

[Helen]

May be I am mixing it with something else. but I remember gingers and manganese. will look for the source

 

[Helen]

@HerrFisch Also I thought redheads could not tan much at all.

may be they are copper and mang deficient? dont know.

 

[HerrFisch]

@HerrFisch Also I thought redheads could not tan much at all.

Yes and apparently they can produce vitamin D pretty easily.

 

[Helen]

Yes and apparently they can produce vitamin D pretty easily.

yeah, there is no melanin, right. SO no copper?

 

[Helen]

@HerrFisch Do we have any redheads on the forum? you should make a post and ask LOL

 

[HerrFisch]

yeah, there is no melanin, right. SO no copper?

They have more pheomelanin (pink / red) and less eumelanin (brown / black).

Just read that brown hair can turn red or blonde in case of some metabolic protein deficiency /starvation.
So if someone with red hair can change to brown. And brown can change to red, genes are nothing but a blueprint and can be changed.

 

[A98648]

They have more pheomelanin (pink / red) and less eumelanin (brown / black).

"Pheomelanins are particularly concentrated in the lips, nipples, glans of the penis, and vagina." So if you ever wondered if its always lip color = lip color.

Just read that brown hair can turn red or blonde in case of some metabolic protein deficiency /starvation.
So if someone with red hair can change to brown. And brown can change to red, genes are nothing but a blueprint and can be changed.

After getting pfs my beard and eyebrows got a lot of red and blonde and has stayed that way. Originally it was dark almost black my whole life.

Also the first week or 2 after crashing with pfs a lot of my hair turned completely white. Before that I had never had even one grey or white hair. My guess was that it was such a massive stress on my body that it stripped minerals from wherever it could (tissues and hair) to try and maintain homeostasis leaving the hair white.

 

[Nina]

I dont even know if i have pfs or something related, but i do know that when i was doing a keto diet + had a lot of stress, i started getting grey hairs (at 19 lol). They randomly went away after i quit keto. Also, my hair used to be pretty light brown but has gotten way darker over the past few years (same timeframe as when my health issues started) the same thing happened to my brother after smoking pot for years.

2 years ago during summer my mom mentioned my hair started getting a ‘coppery’ color. Was weird AF. It also randomly went away again.

 

[Ingeno]

My hair has also lost colour post FIN. It is a lot lighter and with direct sunlight it even looks a bit gold/orange while I naturally had dark blonde hair.

 

[SwaZ]

How about their pain sensitivity?
I get mixed results on this one when i search on google. Some say they feel more pain thus they need more painkillers, while others say they feel less pain.
Possibly something to do with copper and under/over methylation.

 

[freeflow]

They have more pheomelanin (pink / red) and less eumelanin (brown / black).

"Pheomelanins are particularly concentrated in the lips, nipples, glans of the penis, and vagina." So if you ever wondered if its always lip color = lip color.

Just read that brown hair can turn red or blonde in case of some metabolic protein deficiency /starvation.
So if someone with red hair can change to brown. And brown can change to red, genes are nothing but a blueprint and can be changed.

Where did you read this brown hair turning into blonde from protein deficiency? I remember before taking finasteride and starting to have hairloss my hair at some parts turned into blonde from brown but later it went back.
On finasteride my brown hair got very very dark brown and very strong.

 

[HerrFisch]

May be I am mixing it with something else. but I remember gingers and manganese. will look for the source

TEI writes in manganese deficiency subjects hair colour changed from black to red.

Manganese

 

[Kjbigman]

Something I came across multiple times while searching the web was that Redheaded People have copper problems.
Particularly being copper toxic.

And apparently redheads are prone to having pyroluria.

Its interesting, that the so often claimed "temper issues" could be well connected to copper problems.
-- Another thing is that Redheads rarely get grey. Its more like their color fades.
- Redheads changing to brown with high dose zinc.

My thoughts were, if Redheads really are copper toxic and dont get grey, its possible that they keep really good low levels of iron. Probably even better than females already do.





Now to the opposite.
Something @Potion already mentioned and noticed :



There are lots of people with hemochromatosis (increased iron uptake) getting gray hair really early on.


So too much ROS without Catalase which is an iron based enzyme, leads to grey hair. If its h2o2 bleaching the hair which some claim or even tyrosine or melanine getting destroyed. Idk yet.

But I would tend to say that real iron deficiency is rare and definitely not the reason for grey hair. Its rather deficiency from toxicity. One is short often short term, toxicity long term.


Typical and quite famous hemochromatosis dude :

Back to potions quote, I noticed that same.
Ive actually seen a bunch of hemochr. dudes that have the best hair but get gray hair strands pretty quick.
But there are also dudes with hemo. being bald. .

Its proven that redheaded people have way less hair count but thicker hair.
Redheads ~90k
Blondes ~110 k
Brunettes ~140k

Iron toxicity = grey hair
Copper toxicity = saves you from getting grey ?

Dont know if its possible continue @Potion 's claim and say that people with hemochromatosis and thus high toxic iron levels which could lead to actually low available iron, could prevent them from hairloss.
By antagonizing copper and therefore keeping Iron and Copper low.
In comparison with the ideal -Copper and Iron levels being low - it looks pretty similar but with the sideeffects that come with the iron toxicity. Aka liver disease, diabetes ...

But thats all assumptions. You got any ?
Add them in the comments and dont forget to subscribe.
Byee

I have red hair. I was losing hair and went on finasteride, which saved my hair but now I have been going steadily grayer each day.

I literally just thought about your correlation of graying hair to more hair today. I was analyzing those with grey hair and everyone one had a near-full head of hair, whereas those who were bald had dark hair on the sides. So, I agree there may be some correlation. I believe I was copper toxic. I don't know if I am copper toxic anymore (my serum was low range of normal, Ceruloplasmin was low, and 24 hr. urine copper was very low). My ferritin levels are on the lower side of normal. Maybe graying has to do more with the ratio of iron to copper, rather than any absolute number for each.

 

[HerrFisch]

I have red hair. I was losing hair and went on finasteride, which saved my hair but now I have been going steadily grayer each day.

I literally just thought about your correlation of graying hair to more hair today. I was analyzing those with grey hair and everyone one had a near-full head of hair, whereas those who were bald had dark hair on the sides. So, I agree there may be some correlation. I believe I was copper toxic. I don't know if I am copper toxic anymore (my serum was low range of normal, Ceruloplasmin was low, and 24 hr. urine copper was very low). My ferritin levels are on the lower side of normal. Maybe graying has to do more with the ratio of iron to copper, rather than any absolute number for each.

Interesting, my serum Cu was low as well as my ceruloplasmin. 24h urine copper was not high. Hairtest really high though.

I never had issues with gray hair yet. Now with working on chelating copper for quite some time, I notice "some" graying. But really just 3-4. And they are at the same place. Could be the extra iron too.
I dont think its possible to be copper or iron deficient by diet. But I think it can happen with excess minerals / skewed diet mineral intakes. Or just with age by accumulation.

I really do want to find the explanation for all that. And theoretically it should be possible by simply comparing F to M and other things like low or high intake differences from like asian vs caucasian.

Just looking at this graph should tell us something if having hormones mineral retention in mind,



Grey hair has definitely something to do with excess metal that stimulates ROS which can not be handled by the metabolism. (I think thats save to say and backed up by several studies) Otherwise it must be missing iron or copper bioavailability, aka cofactors. So catalase activity , tyrosinase could be a problem. Dont think it could happen from too little tyrosine only, in slow oxidation. Zinc and Manganese are less likely to cause ROS than Iron and Copper. Maybe even that ratio of friendly / unfriendly redox metals is skewed.

I think if you are on the supplement-train, zinc manganese is still the best bet yet. (For someone without testing anything) Maybe there are faster ways by removing things instead of putting in more minerals. Or a combination of both.

Still, one of my examples is looking at people with hemochromatosis. Their iron uptake is higher than normal which could lead to less than normal copper uptake.
And the people I have seen with hemochr., were exactly like that, full gray heads of hair. At least a conspicuous accumulation of this type.
But there is also the oposite. ...


If you look at gender, both get gray with age. But M earlier than F.

My assumptions on metal accumulation in F / M is that F accumulates iron but less (start several years later + less T).
Copper Im not sure. But if I look at the drop in Estrogen after menopause. Estrogen gets even higher in M than F at this time. Maybe they stop retaining copper which fits perfectly with decline in progesterone / metabolism.? And while having high Estrogen in early years, they are loosing blood mothly which most likely is Not just iron losses but also copper.

Asian iron intake is pretty low and I think there are lots of examples of people keeping their natural colored hair longer than caucasian. And / but they often have darker hair from the beginning. And they still get gray at some point.

So it looks like metal accumulation : managable oxidation of metals : metabolism.

But there are many possibilities and none seems 100%.
My plan is just to keep both iron and copper low.

I think even the best diets lead to some kind of accumulation with increasing age. Thats why we dont see a natural local occuring of 100% of non graying / balding / other problems in people. And like 1000s other factors play a role in it. Thats aging.

Really would like to see a hairtest from somebody with a full head of gray hair. Not dyed obviously