Herbs

[TubZy]

What is everyone thoughts on using herbs? I guess the easiest example would be CD's regimen (rotating about 14-22 herbs daily).

Given what we know now, what mechanism do you think they work through? Obviously, most will say as an adaptogen, but I think there has got to be something more and a lot of these herbs seem to raise progesterone and androgens in general while interact with the estrogen receptor (schisandra).

I did the herb regimen in the past and many of them improved physical, sexual, energy areas but shot my anxiety through the roof, specifically pine pollen.

Just a thought, as the herbs have been coming up lately. Could be worth highlighting the ones that are anti progesterone and upregulate the ER which would make sense to cycle.

 

[aztec]

http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estrogenherb.html

 

[Canari]

Wahoo, I take turmeric for my liver, but I see that it also has an influence on both PR and ER. And I still find it difficult to understand the effects of receptor binding, and thus how long they have to be taken, and then let down, how long before resuming their use...

The six highest ER-binding herbs that are commonly consumed were:
- soy, licorice, hops, verbena, red clover, thyme, turmeric.

The six highest PR-binding herbs and spices commonly consumed were:
- oregano, damiana, verbena, red clover, thyme, turmeric

When plants bind to the receptors, does it mean the receptor is less available for the natural hormone, and that the body will make more receptors?
Any :idea: ?

 

[freeflow]

I was taking tribulus with scishandra this week for 5 days, both daily. I havent got that big boost when i was taking a break for my blood test and then starting to rotate them, first day schosandra and trib the following day.
But my digestion and stool form got back to 80-90% pre pfs level, they were nicely formed and not loose at all. It happened while i was on the 2 herbs, today i got off.
Gonna get some more herbs and do the rotation.

My experience with other herbs:
Gabaergic: magnolia bark->makes me fking angry, rarely experienced such a huge anger. Googled gaba and anger, there are reports people getting very angry and desperate when boosting gaba.

Aromataze inhibitors: white button mushroom, tongkat ali->both fucks me up, i cannot block estrogen production.

Pine pollen->if i skip like 20-30 days the first day when i take it it makes me androgenic and i got deeper voice, better muscles, some agression and very good erections.If i continue to take it for days it will make my dick go numb from the 2nd day and some days into it i will have to nap in the afternoon. Just like some on R andro. When i stop after some days a snap back appears and my pre pfs type libido comes back and stays for a while. Then i crash and head pressure appears, diarrhoea/loose stools and all typical pfs sides and i recover from it in a few days or a week.

 

[TubZy]

I was taking tribulus with scishandra this week for 5 days, both daily. I havent got that big boost when i was taking a break for my blood test and then starting to rotate them, first day schosandra and trib the following day.
But my digestion and stool form got back to 80-90% pre pfs level, they were nicely formed and not loose at all. It happened while i was on the 2 herbs, today i got off.
Gonna get some more herbs and do the rotation.

My experience with other herbs:
Gabaergic: magnolia bark->makes me fking angry, rarely experienced such a huge anger. Googled gaba and anger, there are reports people getting very angry and desperate when boosting gaba.

Aromataze inhibitors: white button mushroom, tongkat ali->both fucks me up, i cannot block estrogen production.

Pine pollen->if i skip like 20-30 days the first day when i take it it makes me androgenic and i got deeper voice, better muscles, some agression and very good erections.If i continue to take it for days it will make my dick go numb from the 2nd day and some days into it i will have to nap in the afternoon. Just like some on R andro. When i stop after some days a snap back appears and my pre pfs type libido comes back and stays for a while. Then i crash and head pressure appears, diarrhoea/loose stools and all typical pfs sides and i recover from it in a few days or a week.

Same with me bro. Tongkat shoots my anxiety through the roof but improved other areas. Tribulus is the same thing, just made me angry. Tongkat was one of the first I tried years ago.

The estrogenic type herbs I responded better too..things like schisandra, licorice. he shou wu etc. I think it could be worth weeding out the estrogenic/anti prog/binds to ER etc. type herbs out of CD's regimen.

 

[TubZy]

http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estrogenherb.html

thanks

 

[TubZy]

Wahoo, I take turmeric for my liver, but I see that it also has an influence on both PR and ER. And I still find it difficult to understand the effects of receptor binding, and thus how long they have to be taken, and then let down, how long before resuming their use...

The six highest ER-binding herbs that are commonly consumed were:
- soy, licorice, hops, verbena, red clover, thyme, turmeric.

The six highest PR-binding herbs and spices commonly consumed were:
- oregano, damiana, verbena, red clover, thyme, turmeric

When they bind, does it mean the receptor is less available for the natural hormone, and that the body will make more receptors?
Any :idea: ?

When they bind, I believe it essentially would act/mimic on the receptor i.e. estrogen in this case, if it binds to the ER.

Not 100% sure, but if it binds to the receptor, serum levels would increase, thus making/upregulating more receptors.

 

[Canari]

When they bind, I believe it essentially would act/mimic on the receptor i.e. estrogen in this case, if it binds to the ER.

Not 100% sure, but if it binds to the receptor, serum levels would increase, thus making/upregulating more receptors.

I think that's it, because it is the same with tobacco and acetylcholine receptors. Nicotine binds on it, and then there is no room for acetylcholine, and the body makes more receptors, that get occupied and make more... and when you quit smoking, then the receptors shout out loud for occupants!

So, considering oregano in the list... and italian pizzas with all that tomato... what is the result of this diet on hormones? :lol:

 

[Canari]

And what happens if you have more E or P receptors, and then you quit the herb? The body needs less hormone for the same result?

And in how long of taking the herb, the body decides to upregulate receptors?

 

[Goose12]

I have cycled 22 of CD herbs and in my experience with almost all of them is I notice no improvements at first and then after a week or two I start to get slight improvements. I could never pinpoint a single herb that's was the cause improvements. I would also take two or three of the herbs depending on how many herbs I had, so I was using each one at least once a week.

I don't think I ever noticed anxiety from the herbs, if anything Mucana puriens, eleuthero, rhodiola, and goji Berries made my mood better.

 

[Goose12]

I am curious if any one has any experience with bulbine natalensis. It can raise or lower progesterone depending on dosing but mainly used by people on pct to increase testosterone. People pct report good effects from it.

Here some information on it
https://examine.com/supplements/bulbine-natalensis/

 

[Walker]

I am curious if any one has any experience with bulbine natalensis. It can raise or lower progesterone depending on dosing but mainly used by people on pct to increase testosterone. People pct report good effects from it.

Here some information on it
https://examine.com/supplements/bulbine-natalensis/

I used Bulbine as part of my herb rotation as well as Fadogia....CD doesn't have these on his list but I highly recommend them.

 

[Snell1234]

I am curious if any one has any experience with bulbine natalensis. It can raise or lower progesterone depending on dosing but mainly used by people on pct to increase testosterone. People pct report good effects from it.

Here some information on it
https://examine.com/supplements/bulbine-natalensis/

I used Bulbine as part of my herb rotation as well as Fadogia....CD doesn't have these on his list but I highly recommend them.

I hadn't heard of bulbine before. Did it give you any noticeable impacts when you took it?

 

[Goose12]

I am curious if any one has any experience with bulbine natalensis. It can raise or lower progesterone depending on dosing but mainly used by people on pct to increase testosterone. People pct report good effects from it.

Here some information on it
https://examine.com/supplements/bulbine-natalensis/

I used Bulbine as part of my herb rotation as well as Fadogia....CD doesn't have these on his list but I highly recommend them.

I hadn't heard of bulbine before. Did it give you any noticeable impacts when you took it?

I have only cycled bulbine twice because I was a little nervous about trying something new. The first time I used it I woke up with morning wood that was pretty close to Prefin and my ejaculations shot out instead of just oozing out(sorry if I am being to graphic lol). The force of my ejaculations have stuck so far but my morning wood went back to what it was before. The second time I took it my morning wood was stronger but not as good as the first time. I didn't know if the bulbine was the cause of my stronger ejaculations or just a coincidence.

What did you notice from bulbine-natalensis walker?

I haven't heard of Fadogia, I will check it out. What did you notice from it?

 

[Walker]

I used Bulbine as part of my herb rotation as well as Fadogia....CD doesn't have these on his list but I highly recommend them.

I hadn't heard of bulbine before. Did it give you any noticeable impacts when you took it?

I have only cycled bulbine twice because I was a little nervous about trying something new. The first time I used it I woke up with morning wood that was pretty close to Prefin and my ejaculations shot out instead of just oozing out(sorry if I am being to graphic lol). The force of my ejaculations have stuck so far but my morning wood went back to what it was before. The second time I took it my morning wood was stronger but not as good as the first time. I didn't know if the bulbine was the cause of my stronger ejaculations or just a coincidence.

What did you notice from bulbine-natalensis walker?

I haven't heard of Fadogia, I will check it out. What did you notice from it?

Fadioga is very much like a milder tongkat. It's used in a lot of PCTs. Bulbine is more like a pine pollen tincture feeling. It's sort of a natural AI.

 

[Goose12]

Fadioga is very much like a milder tongkat. It's used in a lot of PCTs. Bulbine is more like a pine pollen tincture feeling. It's sort of a natural AI.

That's a perfect explanation of how bulbine feels. I have been researching Fadioga and it's very interesting. Is there a brand you recommend and which brand of bulbine do you use?

Here the bulbine I use
https://nutraplanet.com/products/sns-bulbine-capsules-350-mg/

Here some info on fadogia-agrestis for anyone who is interested
https://examine.com/supplements/fadogia-agrestis/

 

[Walker]

Fadioga is very much like a milder tongkat. It's used in a lot of PCTs. Bulbine is more like a pine pollen tincture feeling. It's sort of a natural AI.

That's a perfect explanation of how bulbine feels. I have been researching Fadioga and it's very interesting. Is there a brand you recommend and which brand of bulbine do you use?

Here the bulbine I use
https://nutraplanet.com/products/sns-bulbine-capsules-350-mg/

Here some info on fadogia-agrestis for anyone who is interested
https://examine.com/supplements/fadogia-agrestis/

I use Barlowe's herbs for both. Can order through Amazon or right from them.

 

[TubZy]

Took this from the other thread regarding licorice root.

Lower sodium (correlates with lowered aldosterone):
-Take magnesium
-Licorice lowers aldosterone sensitivity and when you get off, sodium actually falls and estrogen is raised which makes DHT sensitive

 

[Goose12]

Took this from the other thread regarding licorice root.

Lower sodium (correlates with lowered aldosterone):
-Take magnesium
-Licorice lowers aldosterone sensitivity and when you get off, sodium actually falls and estrogen is raised which makes DHT sensitive

Licorice is a very interesting herb regarding pfs. I bounced back to 90% one time from using it. But it back fired since I over did it.

 

[TubZy]

[mention]gbolduev[/mention]

What are your thoughts on using herbs during the snap back period or year round since they are androgenic so coming off anything anti prog (ella/RU) then taking the herbs during the snap back period......