Jack17 PFS log

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Messages
321
Update:
I have had no bad side effects with this protocol. I'm taking Propecia 1/4 tab. Libido/ED is higher/better than base line about 3 days after dose. I am dosing every 7days. Mentally I am really good. Mood is really good. I have a better feeling of well being. These are not dramatic but they are real.
I'm not recommending it, but if anyone else is doing a similar protocol it would be great to get their feed back.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
Update:
I have had no bad side effects with this protocol. I'm taking Propecia 1/4 tab. Libido/ED is higher/better than base line about 3 days after dose. I am dosing every 7days. Mentally I am really good. Mood is really good. I have a better feeling of well being. These are not dramatic but they are real.
I'm not recommending it, but if anyone else is doing a similar protocol it would be great to get their feed back.

you are taking SaMe? dont forget that Same is what improves the mood.
 

Aflac94

Well-Known Member
Messages
380
I wonder about creating a Fin homeopathic dose, which is super small , like only one molecule. The amount equal to Avogadro’s number. I’d have to find a place to create this for me or i guess I could figure it out or get pretty close on my own
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Messages
321
Update:
I have been doing this protocol since mid January. So it's been a little over two months. I posted my labs previously and how after even a week after 1/4 tab of Propecia, my DHT was still 30 points lower. I have ranged from taking it every 3 days which is way too frequent (for me) to 10 to 14days. I'm trying to heal myself but I am also here trying to experiment with protocol. With that said, three weeks ago I switched from 1/4 tab of Propecia to 1 drop of avodart. I estimate that is about 1/10th the amount of the 0.5 mg cap. (There is a graph you can refer to if you google DHT and fin and Avodart that shows different amounts of the drugs and effect on DHT when taking and then stopping. I'm doing a little different in that I am only taking one dose and the study, the guys were taking for weeks then stopping.) That Avodart suppressed me for a longer period, almost a full week and then with a recovery. (Specifically my sides are by far ED and decreased libido, but also don't feel as good, harder to work out and achy joints, etc) So about one week after the first dose of avodart, I felt good. Maybe at 80% of normal. So I took another dose but I increased it to 2 drops ( 1/5th the amount.) With in a day I had a much more suppressed feeling. Maybe 10% libido. I felt like I looked puffy and more achy joints ( I think achy joints can be from low estrogen, hard to say) This lasted two weeks. Over the past two days I felt normal. Good libido and NO ED, not at all. This f'ed up disease has put a huge strain on my marriage but last night I was totally normal, 100% with my wife, if you know what I mean. It was such a great feeling, to feel like I could be normal again. Over the past two years, there has been times when I have been close to normal for short periods of time but it didn't continue to improve or I would still be here!
I got labs done earlier this week and I will update when I get them back. Specifically I am interested in DHT level but also checking total and free test, estradiol, SHBG.
So for my experiement so far, the theory that PFS (for some guys) caused androgen receptor resistence, and afterwards, continued elevation of DHT may perpetuate this physiology has some validity. Taking something to decrease DHT fin or Avodary (carefully) to try and resensitize or change receptor expresssion (or something to this effect) seems to be correct in my limited experiment.
At this point I may stay off everything and see how long this lasts. Side note on this protocol, my hair is growing back even with such limited amounts of the drug.
It might be great ( I think Helen has done this) to create a list of guys with high DHT and may want to experiment with this. I am not telling anyone to do this as it seems like this protocol has the most risk of any protocol guys are trying. But what I am saying is that PFS sucks and there is no easy cure, and it seems like nothing any one is doing REALLY will consistently helps, more than almost randomly for a few guys (IMO), if you know what I mean. And there are those cases on this board where it doesn't seem like the guys symptoms are bad enough to risk this. And also, there are the cases where someone takes like on tab of Propecia and gets PFS, wth!! That sucks! But MAYBE for the guys that have a high DHT level and had the classic, initial side effects and the classic feel good for two weeks then crash,....maybe this can help. BE CAREFUL if you are considering this, but for me, it didn't make me worse and for the past 2 days I'm good. I will continue to update and time will tell.
( By the way, when I search for similar protocols where it didn't work, it seems like the guys re took fin daily then tried to wean off. I don't think that works. You suppress your self just TOOOOO! much, maybe)
 

RebelWithACause

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,613
Update:
I have been doing this protocol since mid January. So it's been a little over two months. I posted my labs previously and how after even a week after 1/4 tab of Propecia, my DHT was still 30 points lower. I have ranged from taking it every 3 days which is way too frequent (for me) to 10 to 14days. I'm trying to heal myself but I am also here trying to experiment with protocol. With that said, three weeks ago I switched from 1/4 tab of Propecia to 1 drop of avodart. I estimate that is about 1/10th the amount of the 0.5 mg cap. (There is a graph you can refer to if you google DHT and fin and Avodart that shows different amounts of the drugs and effect on DHT when taking and then stopping. I'm doing a little different in that I am only taking one dose and the study, the guys were taking for weeks then stopping.) That Avodart suppressed me for a longer period, almost a full week and then with a recovery. (Specifically my sides are by far ED and decreased libido, but also don't feel as good, harder to work out and achy joints, etc) So about one week after the first dose of avodart, I felt good. Maybe at 80% of normal. So I took another dose but I increased it to 2 drops ( 1/5th the amount.) With in a day I had a much more suppressed feeling. Maybe 10% libido. I felt like I looked puffy and more achy joints ( I think achy joints can be from low estrogen, hard to say) This lasted two weeks. Over the past two days I felt normal. Good libido and NO ED, not at all. This f'ed up disease has put a huge strain on my marriage but last night I was totally normal, 100% with my wife, if you know what I mean. It was such a great feeling, to feel like I could be normal again. Over the past two years, there has been times when I have been close to normal for short periods of time but it didn't continue to improve or I would still be here!
I got labs done earlier this week and I will update when I get them back. Specifically I am interested in DHT level but also checking total and free test, estradiol, SHBG.
So for my experiement so far, the theory that PFS (for some guys) caused androgen receptor resistence, and afterwards, continued elevation of DHT may perpetuate this physiology has some validity. Taking something to decrease DHT fin or Avodary (carefully) to try and resensitize or change receptor expresssion (or something to this effect) seems to be correct in my limited experiment.
At this point I may stay off everything and see how long this lasts. Side note on this protocol, my hair is growing back even with such limited amounts of the drug.
It might be great ( I think Helen has done this) to create a list of guys with high DHT and may want to experiment with this. I am not telling anyone to do this as it seems like this protocol has the most risk of any protocol guys are trying. But what I am saying is that PFS sucks and there is no easy cure, and it seems like nothing any one is doing REALLY will consistently helps, more than almost randomly for a few guys (IMO), if you know what I mean. And there are those cases on this board where it doesn't seem like the guys symptoms are bad enough to risk this. And also, there are the cases where someone takes like on tab of Propecia and gets PFS, wth!! That sucks! But MAYBE for the guys that have a high DHT level and had the classic, initial side effects and the classic feel good for two weeks then crash,....maybe this can help. BE CAREFUL if you are considering this, but for me, it didn't make me worse and for the past 2 days I'm good. I will continue to update and time will tell.
( By the way, when I search for similar protocols where it didn't work, it seems like the guys re took fin daily then tried to wean off. I don't think that works. You suppress your self just TOOOOO! much, maybe)

That's good man. Could be a viable option for some guys. I personally will never touch it ever again, never. I think for me personally finasteride was not a cure for my problems. Maybe if the only issue you had was hair loss (from high DHT) then it is good for those.

I will follow your progress. Keep it up man.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
@Jack17 you supress yourself then you feel like shit for 2 weeks then DHT goes back up and you feel better. and then you take the drug again then feel like shit and feel better again. So you don't get to the crash part of it?

The idea was the teach the body go thru the crash part of it. Otherwise you just suppress yourself , feel bad, and then get to the point where DHT is in sweet spot.

Try to take nothing for a long time now. since Duta 's half life is very very long


When I took fin first time, I had high DHT, I never took fin before that. So when I took fin , my DHT decreased and I had a lot more libido and mood and everything,

since it increased my estrogen and testosterone. and sped my metabolism.
 
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Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
@Jack17 I mean since Dutas half life is long, you will have longer sweet spot time. So you take the drug feel like shit for 2 weeks, and then DHT starts rising, and you go thru a sweetspot for 2-3 days and then down again and crash. So you basically never allow the crash part to happen, since you take the drug again.



may be you can try a dosage of propecia so you are in a sweet spot all the time? may be really tiny dosage ? or you are planning to suffer thru 2 weeks all the time by suppressing yourself too much?


the idea was to take fin, and just increase the time between the dosages more more more more. and see if you can come off without crashing


It would be nice to see the improvements without taking the drug. so we can make some conclusions.


If you could measure progesterone while you are on these drugs. now that would be pretty good.

also as we know in PFS , there is no Same, if there is no Same, then no adrenaline, and no carnitine, if those dont exist then you dont have fat metabolism working.
without which there will be androgen resistance.
 
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Jack17

Well-Known Member
Messages
321
@Jack17 I mean since Dutas half life is long, you will have longer sweet spot time. So you take the drug feel like shit for 2 weeks, and then DHT starts rising, and you go thru a sweetspot for 2-3 days and then down again and crash. So you basically never allow the crash part to happen, since you take the drug again.



may be you can try a dosage of propecia so you are in a sweet spot all the time? may be really tiny dosage ? or you are planning to suffer thru 2 weeks all the time by suppressing yourself too much?


the idea was to take fin, and just increase the time between the dosages more more more more. and see if you can come off without crashing


It would be nice to see the improvements without taking the drug. so we can make some conclusions.


If you could measure progesterone while you are on these drugs. now that would be pretty good.

also as we know in PFS , there is no Same, if there is no Same, then no adrenaline, and no carnitine, if those dont exist then you dont have fat metabolism working.
without which there will be androgen resistance.
Didn't measure Progesterone. Mine had been low in the past. Will measure next time.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
Didn't measure Progesterone. Mine had been low in the past. Will measure next time.

yeah, since you are on duta and fin, please measure progesterone , since you are taking these drugs. It will help to see what these drugs do with 3 beta hsd.

next time you take the dose of the drug, or whenever please measure progesterone
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Messages
321
Update:
Labs came in today. Testosterone 974 (10days after two drops of avodart) compared to 874 last month. Previously 800. (264-916). Free test 9.4 comparted to 9.1 last month, previously 7 (7.2-24). DHT 66 compared to 57 (30-85) previously around 83.

I've been feeling essentally at about 95% regarding ED and libido past 6 days or so. I'm very please with protocol so far, but too early to make any conclusions.
 

RebelWithACause

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,613
Update:
Labs came in today. Testosterone 974 (10days after two drops of avodart) compared to 874 last month. Previously 800. (264-916). Free test 9.4 comparted to 9.1 last month, previously 7 (7.2-24). DHT 66 compared to 57 (30-85) previously around 83.

I've been feeling essentally at about 95% regarding ED and libido past 6 days or so. I'm very please with protocol so far, but too early to make any conclusions.

Nice man. What is the scale on the free test?
 

JasonSky

Well-Known Member
Messages
133
Update:
Labs came in today. Testosterone 974 (10days after two drops of avodart) compared to 874 last month. Previously 800. (264-916). Free test 9.4 comparted to 9.1 last month, previously 7 (7.2-24). DHT 66 compared to 57 (30-85) previously around 83.

I've been feeling essentally at about 95% regarding ED and libido past 6 days or so. I'm very please with protocol so far, but too early to make any conclusions.
That's actually a very significant increase in T levels in such a short period of time, but you were also experimenting with fin for months so hard to make conclusions. But something seems to have worked :D
 

RebelWithACause

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,613

So you have low free T. A lot of people get low free T on fin/dutasteride. Still if your libido is good and no ED, go for it. But still put things into perspective. Total T does not matter if all of it is bind with SHBG. You can increase total T by taking creatine but all of it will be binded with SHBG.

Anyways interesting protocol but right now you are still on. It is kind of like a stilt at this point. I am very curious if you get a snapback. Would be awesome.
 

joekool

Moderator
Messages
551
Hey @RebelWithACause i probably sound like a broken record but hear me out

I've been stating for a while pfs is related to the Androgen receptor insensitivity and down regulation. We know fin up regulates the AR so, in theory, a low free test state (or any numbers of these test) would be only a small portion of the whole picture. We commonly see normal levels of all hormones in pfs ppl but they're not benefitng or uptaking these hormones.

So the free test or dht levels matter less than, if there was a test for, androgen receptor density and sensitivity. FTR, estrogen sensitizes the male AR, which is where libido originates.

This experiment by jack shows me a ton of data and supports my theory, a theory others are now saying is wrong but theirs. Lol

Anyhow, scary to test, but the evidence is startlingly close to what i expected. And why some ppl cycle fin during steroid cycles numerous times and never get pfs