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Is it oil or alcohol based?
Is it oil or alcohol based?
Good point. How long would you take progesterone for? I was thinking 10-14 days but the RU variable may change that. How long is RU half life?
Oil based
Update:
Started Anavar 10mg daily along with Progesterone topically. ( I realize this is low dose and I will likely increase over time. Not sure about duration and repeating cycle yet) Started Saturday, two days ago. After reading the recent posts on CSF hormone levels, decided to try new regimen. On Friday I did topical testosterone and topical progesterone. I don't think that will work for me. I felt swollen, gained wt ( even with just one day of treatment) I think since my testosterone is already on high side, this just was changed to estrogen. With current regimen I feel no significant improvement but realize it's probably too soon to tell. And I wonder if the effects of testosterone will take time to leave system. I still have morning wood. I have pretty regularly had that for the past 9 months or so. Libido lower than base line.
Started Anavar 10mg daily along with Progesterone topically. ( I realize this is low dose and I will likely increase over time. Not sure about duration and repeating cycle yet) Started Saturday, two days ago. After reading the recent posts on CSF hormone levels, decided to try new regimen. On Friday I did topical testosterone and topical progesterone. I don't think that will work for me. I felt swollen, gained wt ( even with just one day of treatment) I think since my testosterone is already on high side, this just was changed to estrogen. With current regimen I feel no significant improvement but realize it's probably too soon to tell. And I wonder if the effects of testosterone will take time to leave system. I still have morning wood. I have pretty regularly had that for the past 9 months or so. Libido lower than base line.
Some thoughts on Progesterone. I keep thinking back to the Progesterone cycling I did from Feb to May. I thought this was helping a lot and I would occasionally do a small dose of Ella or RU between Progesterone cycle ( typically 5 mg topically for 7 to 14 days) and by mid May I started not to feel the benefit in libido so infrustration, I quite everything. Then six days later I took about 7mg of Ella just because. About four days later I started feeling better. Better than I had ever felt. I was estimating I was at least 90% better I remember thinking if I could just stay at 90% I would care if I got back to 100%! This continued until end of July. This is a good two and half months of feeling like I was essentially cured. I remember on July 4th I wrote I am finally cured and I felt 100% better. Then by August I had relapsed. This is so frustrating!! The question is, after such a good run, why didn't it stick? I was better for almost 3 months. I could restart Progesterone again but given the CSF data I thought adding the Anavar was a good idea. This is my third day of Anavar and Progesterone. No side effects except may slightly feeling more anxious and I didn't sleep very well last night. I did have a better than average work out on Sunday likely related to Anavar. Libido is much lower than base line.
Update:
Day #4 with Anavar and progesterone. Mild to moderate headache yesterday evening. Slight headache this morning. Since starting regimen I've gained couple pounds. I've had significant decrease in libido and I think most had libido boost. I think for now I will stop regimen at 7 days and see.
Day #4 with Anavar and progesterone. Mild to moderate headache yesterday evening. Slight headache this morning. Since starting regimen I've gained couple pounds. I've had significant decrease in libido and I think most had libido boost. I think for now I will stop regimen at 7 days and see.
Update:
I took Anavar 10mg twice daily for one week with progesterone. Unfortunately,I had significant decrease in libido during the week. The trial may have been too short but because of the results I didn't want to continue for now. My baseline testosterone and DHT are on higher side. Anavar and testosterone (multiple times with Testostereone) have only mad me feel worse, never better. I wonder if supplementing Test/ anavar will only benefit those with low Testosterone/ DHT to start with.
I took Anavar 10mg twice daily for one week with progesterone. Unfortunately,I had significant decrease in libido during the week. The trial may have been too short but because of the results I didn't want to continue for now. My baseline testosterone and DHT are on higher side. Anavar and testosterone (multiple times with Testostereone) have only mad me feel worse, never better. I wonder if supplementing Test/ anavar will only benefit those with low Testosterone/ DHT to start with.
MNK99
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It is not cool that you had a decrease in libido.
But I think it can help people with high test as well (and hurt them too potentially).
No LBM gains ?
Agressive?
(I def don't need the last one).
Regardless, perhaps esp more when ppl get better, all workout drugs assume suppression at least somewhat.
And run on cycle support maybe and PCT definitely.
But I think it can help people with high test as well (and hurt them too potentially).
No LBM gains ?
Agressive?
(I def don't need the last one).
Regardless, perhaps esp more when ppl get better, all workout drugs assume suppression at least somewhat.
And run on cycle support maybe and PCT definitely.
Yea. A little better maybe. Noticed stronger at gym. Too bad decreased libido. Still low. Started Trib today.
Goose12
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It's usually a good sign to feel worse on cycle because you want to snapback to better than before.
Like if you have high testosterone and it's causing issues, you raise it even higher and feel worse, but after you stop it's lower than before. Causing you to be at a better baseline.
Give a week or 2 and see where your at. It's hard to gauge what's going on if you constantly jump from one thing to the next.
Goose12
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I have done randro and cycled herbs but have never done anavar. Herb cycling is probably a good idea and Pottassium chloride and other electrolytes.
Or you could jump on tei and not worry about it. Tei will eventually cure you or get you extremely close. A lot of us are having great results.
Update:
So about 4 days after stopping Anavar I started feeling better. I was feeling off and depressed for couple days after stopping Anavar. Now mood is better. I think I am actually feeling more " testosterone" type feelings. Libido is slightly higher than base line. Interestingly, Viagra has never worked for me since this started two years ago. Weird! but I tried it Monday and I could feel the effect again. My DHT is already on high side. I noticed testicle felt smaller during Anavar and now back to normal size. Maybe the mechanism is that Anavar treatment suppressed my own DHT and this effect caused AR to be more sensitive. However I think my hair has thinned a bit from one week of Anavar. I could feel the DHT itch during Anavar. I am considering repeating Anavar, short cycles like 7 days.
So about 4 days after stopping Anavar I started feeling better. I was feeling off and depressed for couple days after stopping Anavar. Now mood is better. I think I am actually feeling more " testosterone" type feelings. Libido is slightly higher than base line. Interestingly, Viagra has never worked for me since this started two years ago. Weird! but I tried it Monday and I could feel the effect again. My DHT is already on high side. I noticed testicle felt smaller during Anavar and now back to normal size. Maybe the mechanism is that Anavar treatment suppressed my own DHT and this effect caused AR to be more sensitive. However I think my hair has thinned a bit from one week of Anavar. I could feel the DHT itch during Anavar. I am considering repeating Anavar, short cycles like 7 days.
Just a thought:
And this may have been discussed before but, what if the methylation of the androgen receptor is a result of a the significant increase / flood of DHT from stopping Fin/Avodart. The Methylation of AR is a reflex in response to DHT but this reaction is too much resulting in significant insensitivity of AR. But because DHT stays high, the androgen receptor does not reset. It stays stuck in an insensitive state. So maybe a focus of treatment could be to decrease and track DHT levels. Maybe that is why progesterone can help. Doesn't progesterone inhibit or decrease 5ar?? Maybe significantly lowering (or even decreasing it a little bit but continually like what I suspect Ginko is doing) DHT for a period of time is the key. Like I said I started Ginko about ten days ago. I have noticed that I am sweating more and anxiety might be a little better. Libido might be a little better but fighting with the wife (always to do with PFS) so no chance to test that. Some feel horrible on Progesterone. I wonder if those that do not respond or feel worse actually have low T/ DHT. In the setting of an insensitive AR then lowering DHT further will cause more problems. In that group maybe adding DHT will more likely result in a positive feed back and a resetting of AR. Guys with higher DHT, adding Anavar will perpetuate the negative feed back.
It's probably not that easy though. If it were, then just restarting Fin/ Avodart in guys with high DHT would work. But it seems to maybe, rarely work if that was NOT the cause of this. What I mean is that Accutaine and PSSD some seem to have improved with fin. Maybe it has to be like microscopic doses, very very carefully. But this doesn't explain why guys can be ruined for just taking it for a couple days. It can be a dangerous proposition to restart. I am going to take Ginko for now. I am not taking nothing else. I ordered TEI just to see the results and because others seem to have improved from it. I am thinking about adding like very low dose of avodart to minoxidil topically. As I did a year ago. Maybe not, IDK.
And the Anavar trial was bad. Made me feel a lot worse for a while I thought I had a small bounce back but over all worse even after.
And this may have been discussed before but, what if the methylation of the androgen receptor is a result of a the significant increase / flood of DHT from stopping Fin/Avodart. The Methylation of AR is a reflex in response to DHT but this reaction is too much resulting in significant insensitivity of AR. But because DHT stays high, the androgen receptor does not reset. It stays stuck in an insensitive state. So maybe a focus of treatment could be to decrease and track DHT levels. Maybe that is why progesterone can help. Doesn't progesterone inhibit or decrease 5ar?? Maybe significantly lowering (or even decreasing it a little bit but continually like what I suspect Ginko is doing) DHT for a period of time is the key. Like I said I started Ginko about ten days ago. I have noticed that I am sweating more and anxiety might be a little better. Libido might be a little better but fighting with the wife (always to do with PFS) so no chance to test that. Some feel horrible on Progesterone. I wonder if those that do not respond or feel worse actually have low T/ DHT. In the setting of an insensitive AR then lowering DHT further will cause more problems. In that group maybe adding DHT will more likely result in a positive feed back and a resetting of AR. Guys with higher DHT, adding Anavar will perpetuate the negative feed back.
It's probably not that easy though. If it were, then just restarting Fin/ Avodart in guys with high DHT would work. But it seems to maybe, rarely work if that was NOT the cause of this. What I mean is that Accutaine and PSSD some seem to have improved with fin. Maybe it has to be like microscopic doses, very very carefully. But this doesn't explain why guys can be ruined for just taking it for a couple days. It can be a dangerous proposition to restart. I am going to take Ginko for now. I am not taking nothing else. I ordered TEI just to see the results and because others seem to have improved from it. I am thinking about adding like very low dose of avodart to minoxidil topically. As I did a year ago. Maybe not, IDK.
And the Anavar trial was bad. Made me feel a lot worse for a while I thought I had a small bounce back but over all worse even after.
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Did you read my theory? methylation is increased with high DHT, and if you lower DHT you feel better, I described all of this in the recent post/
AR numbers are overexpressed on DHT sensitive tissues( according to melcangi) , so you have to go ON DHT and stay on it, to downregulate numbers of ARs and then when you come off DHT , then brain will turn off methylation , since DHT wont be as sensitive.
this is why Cdnuts and gazzilllion of other people got cured on r andro, which is DHT. https://hackstasis.com/threads/pfs-gaba-ars-dht-testosterone-mechanism-of-pfs-continued.1456/ R andro is bioidentical DHT. and anavar is ANTI DHT
this is why people with high DHT, can go on thyroid and test and feel cured, since thyroid lowers DHT.
of course high DHT people if they lower DHT, they would feel cured since testosterone will work.
SO if someone goes on low dose fin and stays on it , you will feel better. that is what that guy is doing with accutane. since the body is used to living with LOW DHT> while on finasteride. so the accutane guy is STAYING ON finasteride. That is very risky.
That is very risky since you got into this trouble by inhibiting DHT in the first place.
Anavar is NOT DHT, it is ANTI DHT. it blocks action of DHT. since it is 20% of DHT stength.
Some people have more gaba problems that is why helped with progesterone and some people have more AR problem and helped by DHT.
But according to CSF studies both have problems with both
ginko is gaba antagonist. when you take finasteride it blocked allopregnenolone. So this upregulated gaba receptor.
Ginko is blocking it and you are feeling better.
But some people got cured by running GHB which basically increased gaba and downregulated it.
if your gaba is too strong. this stops 3 alpha hsd, which converts DHT further into 3 adiol. this could be why DHT is high.
And this high DHT does not let testosterone and estrogen work.
SO if you make your 3 alpha hsd Work. again, this will convert your DHT into 3 adiol and this will lower your DHT. and this will increase testoterone and estrogen action.
since DHT causes aldosterone secretion, which lowers potassium.
this is why you feel better on progesterone, since progesterone BLOCKS aldo receptors, and basically stops potassium wasting.
and your estrogen works better.
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@Jack17 I think this is possible of what is going on .
I am going to write this out for you to be more clear.
Fin binds NADPH. dutasteride binds NADPH. what they do is they lower NADPH in the body, which then lowers DHT, and also allopregnenolone.
the body upregulates DHT receptors meaning ARs in DHT sensitive tissues., and also upregulates GABA A receptors( this one I'm not sure, upregulates it or downregulates))
3alpha hsd is what converts DHT into 3 adiol. 3 adiol is the agonist of GABA receptor, also.
3 alpha Hsd is the enzyme which converts DHT into 3 adiol and progesterone into allopregnenolone, but if let stay gaba receptor got too strong.
Then 3 alpha reductase works very little, and you get stuck with high DHT. and DHT is already sensitive in its tissues since you blocked it before,
this sensitive DHT lowers estrogen action, and also lowers testoterone action all over the body. Since the ARs get methylated all over the place not only where DHT is.
and in places where testosterone was ARs were not overexpressed at all, since testosterone was not low while on fin or duta.
I am going to write this out for you to be more clear.
Fin binds NADPH. dutasteride binds NADPH. what they do is they lower NADPH in the body, which then lowers DHT, and also allopregnenolone.
the body upregulates DHT receptors meaning ARs in DHT sensitive tissues., and also upregulates GABA A receptors( this one I'm not sure, upregulates it or downregulates))
3alpha hsd is what converts DHT into 3 adiol. 3 adiol is the agonist of GABA receptor, also.
3 alpha Hsd is the enzyme which converts DHT into 3 adiol and progesterone into allopregnenolone, but if let stay gaba receptor got too strong.
Then 3 alpha reductase works very little, and you get stuck with high DHT. and DHT is already sensitive in its tissues since you blocked it before,
this sensitive DHT lowers estrogen action, and also lowers testoterone action all over the body. Since the ARs get methylated all over the place not only where DHT is.
and in places where testosterone was ARs were not overexpressed at all, since testosterone was not low while on fin or duta.
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@Jack17 by taking gingko, you are blocking GABA A receptor, and the body increases 3 alpha hsd, to create more allopregnenolone.
Since 3 alpha hsd goes up on ginko. your DHT converts into 3 adiol more and goes down. and you feel better, if you stay on it, you will feel more libido and more everything.
but I would assume if you go off ginko, gaba will become stronger. but I am not sure about that.
Since 3 alpha hsd goes up on ginko. your DHT converts into 3 adiol more and goes down. and you feel better, if you stay on it, you will feel more libido and more everything.
but I would assume if you go off ginko, gaba will become stronger. but I am not sure about that.
Okay...thanks.... And I had not reviewed your theory on the methylation but I just did.
I understand what you are saying about measuring free DHT and that is a better measurement. But is having a high DHT important to determine which protocol may help?? Do some have low DHT levels? Are the guys with lower DHT the ones that benefit from Test/ anavar / Randro? Testosterone ( I even took thyroid for a a week or two last year while on testosterone) and R Andro and Anavar all made me feel worse but Progesterone made me feel better. Ginko seems to make me feel better. These can have like anti androgen properties, right?? I do realize you are pointing out the GABA pathway and that connection. Thanks. ( I am pushing this point because I am just trying to understand why some people try something and may feel better but others try it and feel nothing or feel worse. And this may have already been discussed.)
When you say gaba will become stonger, is that good or bad?
Thanks!