Jack17 PFS log

[hairsuit]

Thanks for keeping us posted!

 

[wuf]

Update.
On Monday I took like 1/10-20th est tab of propecia. That was at day 5. My libido was starting to improve before I took it. For example my wife was wearing a low cut tank top and just looking at her I felt like I was getting excited. She’s beautiful and has a perfect body and it’s ridiculous I can’t even react to her. But was feeling positive about that. I took the dose on the 5th day as an experiment. I think after u take it libido drops for couple days. I think DHT ( thought I read)starts coming back up after 4th day. Anyway, I think definitely will wait at least to 7-14th day. Overall I feel normalish. No sides. I was reading accurtane fin recoveries and not a lot have recovered. Hopefully the lower intermittent dosing will be more successful. I started this pathway with avodart but changed to propecia seemed like there was more recoveries compared to avodart. I was thinking maybe should have stayed on avodart. Maybe it’s the fluctuating dose that causes the problem. IDK.
I think genital sensitivity is better.

Let us know how sides go on if going better or not.
...and be smart enough to don't over do it, I would use it once every 2/3 weeks, no more.
Thanks

 

[Jack17]

Good day today. I can totally feel a more normalish libido. Today just thinking about my wife I was getting an erection. This has been such a rare thing since the crash. I am very hopeful but way too early to get too excited about this. Totally sweating today. I am 2 days post Fin dose. So for the record (for me) 2-3 days after dose libido seems to increase. Will be tracking how long this lasts and how much better until next dose.

 

[Jack17]

BTW I list the sweating symptom because it is so crazy that PFS makes you (for me) not sweat! Under arm sweat. No B.O.! WTH. Not that I even wanted to sweat but the fact that it doesn't happens seems huge. And this would be a more objective symptom to track. And when you are sweating, it's totally noticable and trackable and seems to be a good sign that something is more normal in your system.

 

[brix]

BTW I list the sweating symptom because it is so crazy that PFS makes you (for me) not sweat! Under arm sweat. No B.O.! WTH. Not that I even wanted to sweat but the fact that it doesn't happens seems huge. And this would be a more objective symptom to track. And when you are sweating, it's totally noticable and trackable and seems to be a good sign that something is more normal in your system.

Wonder why that happens. For me, I have BO when I get out of the shower and sweat easily. It’s annoying. I’m tall and lean, fast oxidizer, lowish T.

 

[Jack17]

Interesting. I have high T and high dht and slow oxidizer. I’m not over wt but gained about 10lbs with psf not muscle. I don’t think I have significant mental sides but ED and decrease libido are significant. So far Fin trial is encouraging.

 

[brix]

Interesting. I have high T and high dht and slow oxidizer. I’m not over wt but gained about 10lbs with psf not muscle. I don’t think I have significant mental sides but ED and decrease libido are significant. So far Fin trial is encouraging.

Hmmm. Maybe fin pushes people towards fast oxidation > low DHT. Do you plan on tapering off eventually?

 

[RebelWithACause]

I actually have BO again. I think after first cycle of TEI it became stronger. Did not really check it out 24/7.

Around my genitals also has manly odor + sweat smells like sweat.

I hope to get better after this cycle.

 

[wuf]

By the way, since

I actually have BO again. I think after first cycle of TEI it became stronger. Did not really check it out 24/7.
Around my genitals also has manly odor + sweat smells like sweat.
I hope to get better after this cycle.

is BO meaning body odor?

 

[RebelWithACause]

By the way, since

is BO meaning body odor?

yes

 

[Jack17]

Update:
A week ago Monday I took ( second dose) a crumb, like 1/20th propecia tab. in 2 days I felt a boost. By last Saturday I was feeling lower and then by Sunday cold genitals, no libido and really low mood. I suspect this is the crash post fin dose. I took 1/4 tab on Sunday and within a couple hours my mood had improved signficantly but still had cold genitals, low libido. Last night I started feeling libido return. I am very interested in the recent labs results showing lower SAMe, and folic acid. I wanted to keep my trial clean but then you also just want to get better. I am also a little worried about the drop off last weekend. Yesterday I took extra glut and L methyl folate and nicotinamide (i had these on hand and I also ordered NO protocol supplements) This morning I noticed a noticeble muscle pump with my work out. Felt stronger. I am really interested in the SAM e part of the recent findings reported by Helen. I am interested in the trial that showed that taking accutane with SAM e helped decrease side effects. Interestingly ( crashed Jan- Feb 2017) Prior to that I had started taking SAM e intermittently for the previous 6-9 months. I had been feeling more stressed / depressed about work and family and stuff. I thought it did help some. I remember when I started it, I did feel some significant brain fog. I am wondering if this intermittent trial of SAM e is implicated in my crash. What I mean is, taking the supplement my have changed some balance and then stopping it long with going off Avodart and then restarting was related. Maybe it was the perfect storm of what not to do. Also I had been taking L Methyl folate intermittently the previous year.

 

[joekool]

Hey @Jack17 this is an amazing trial. Lots of ppl will appreciate your findings and risk...

Oddly, when on Fin, the slightest bit of anxiety caused me to sweat like you wouldn't believe. I wish I knew it was the fin doing it as I may have cut it out sooner...

Your trial will answer many questions... thank you

 

[Helen]

@Jack17 I dont like that you constantly mix things. running fin protocol, and then taking things which are exactly opposite of what fin does.

this is going to confuse people like crazy. this is a dangerous route as it is. but masking symptoms of fin, is even more dangerous. IMO


taking Same and taking methylfolate Lowers potassium in the body. this is why people crash on methylation supplements same as they crash on fin.

I assume if you took, methylfolate, and SaME before, this predisposed you to a crash while getting off duta. since NADPH system went up,

which started to lower your potassium.


Thus you feel better on progesterone which RAISES potassium in the body.













.

 

[Jack17]

@Jack17 I dont like that you constantly mix things. running fin protocol, and then taking things which are exactly opposite of what fin does.

this is going to confuse people like crazy. this is a dangerous route as it is. but masking symptoms of fin, is even more dangerous. IMO


taking Same and taking methylfolate Lowers potassium in the body. this is why people crash on methylation supplements same as they crash on fin.

I assume if you took, methylfolate, and SaME before, this predisposed you to a crash while getting off duta. since NADPH system went up,

which started to lower your potassium.


Thus you feel better on progesterone which RAISES potassium in the body.













.

I really appreciate your input here and you have studied this issue far more than I. But I am not proposing anyone do what I am. Maybe I should have stated that from the beginning like PFStinks. ( And by the way he hasn't posted for some time and that is a little concerning to me.)
The reason for the SAM e is this study below. Fin, accutane, SSRI may all be different, different mechanisms, but they may also possibly be more similar, similar pathway, similar treatment. Since I was starting Fin, if the study below is accurate, maybe SAM e could help reset/ normalize something that is off, since it seemed to have a protective effect with accutane. I am not even sure I will continue.
My point was that taking SAM e and then stopping probably decreased my level and that could be related to the disturbance. If the low level perpetuated the problem, maybe supplementation could help??? I fully realize it may not be as easy as supplementing the deficiencies noted in the labs you posted, but maybe it could help. This is so complicated and there is really such limited info, I think experimenting is the only way to make progress. I know I could make myself worse.

Also, if you review the people that have tried Fin again, several got some sort of improvement and then it faded. Maybe, maybe!, if they were taking some sort of supplement that was being depleted, the benefit would stick. IDK.

You said Orion tried SAM e?? I couldn't find that in his log. I guess it didn't help him. Trying with Fin would be a little different. Like I said, I am not sure I will contine.

Actually with Progesterone, last couple times I used it I didn't really notice any improvement ( just for the record.) Sometimes I think I should have just kept cycling Progesterone and Ella, because I had several longer recovery periods so maybe it was doing something.

2013Oral S-adenosyl methionine (SAM) mediatesdisruptions in methyl group metabolism due toretinoic acid therapy and alters neurotransmittermetabolism: implications for major depressivedisorde

 

[Jack17]

End of day update:
This update is mainly for me to remember how I am feeling and at what point in time compared to my Propecia dosing. Will be taking my third dose tomorrow 1/4 tab.

As I stated above, please do not follow me on this until we know more about the results as I know there is a huge risk with this protocol.
With that said:
I feel great today. Feel strong, great work out this morning. I always think sweating and BO for me is a sign androgens are working. Today sweated a lot and bad BO! I say that because for months last year, did not sweat at all, never, even stopped using deoderant! Genitals feel big and heavy and no numbness. I feel calm and collected and have been in a very good mood today. Even when I would have normally become stressed about something I felt more relaxed. I fully appreciate this could stop tomorrow! I could be worse tomorrow.
I took SAM e 200mg yesterday and I might take another dose tonight but I'm still debating that in my head.

 

[Helen]

End of day update:
This update is mainly for me to remember how I am feeling and at what point in time compared to my Propecia dosing. Will be taking my third dose tomorrow 1/4 tab.

As I stated above, please do not follow me on this until we know more about the results as I know there is a huge risk with this protocol.
With that said:
I feel great today. Feel strong, great work out this morning. I always think sweating and BO for me is a sign androgens are working. Today sweated a lot and bad BO! I say that because for months last year, did not sweat at all, never, even stopped using deoderant! Genitals feel big and heavy and no numbness. I feel calm and collected and have been in a very good mood today. Even when I would have normally become stressed about something I felt more relaxed. I fully appreciate this could stop tomorrow! I could be worse tomorrow.
I took SAM e 200mg yesterday and I might take another dose tonight but I'm still debating that in my head.

Sweating and BO is not androgens but metabolism. the faster metabolism more estrogen and cortisol you have. and more you sweat.

 

[Ingeno]

Sweating and BO is not androgens but metabolism. the faster metabolism more estrogen and cortisol you have. and more you sweat.

Can you have a fast/slow metabolism in both fast and slow oxidation rate? I never sweat anymore and I'm a fast oxidizer, not sure if that is related. I hardly gain any weight.

 

[Helen]

Can you have a fast/slow metabolism in both fast and slow oxidation rate? I never sweat anymore and I'm a fast oxidizer, not sure if that is related. I hardly gain any weight.

you are 4 lows, your metabolism is crashed

 

[TubZy]

Sweating and BO is not androgens but metabolism. the faster metabolism more estrogen and cortisol you have. and more you sweat.

Yeah- agreed.

@brix I had the same as you and I'm a fast oxidizer as well. I was like always over sweating. One thing I found help is ice cream and eating lots of fats with calcium in it. Calcium lowers adrenaline and you sweat way way less.

 

[tanedout]

I was a Fast4 in my first hairiest, and a Slow1 in the second. Either way I don't sweat at all. The only thing that seems to be make me sweat is Tudca or to a lesser extent, taking tribulus.

Oddly before getting screwed over by accutane I actually think I sweated excessively for a while. Have read this could be down to thyroid or liver related issues, but not really sure.