Perfect thyroid panel, yet cold hands and feet, hairloss

[freeflow]

Hey guys, before of this whole PFS issue which started like 2.5 years ago I noticed that my hands and feet are way colder than others.

I couldnt do snow ball fighting with bare hands while others could, I noticed this when I was around 14 years old!
I noticed my hair is receiding at 17.5 years of age, now Im 25 and still have this.
I just got back my thyroid results recently and its:

TSH: 2.2
FT3: 5.2 (range: 3.5-6.5)
FT4: 18.2 (11.5-22)

I have the typical patterned hairloss, receiding at the temples, and losing hair from the crown, having a thinning line leading towards to a patch of denser hair which is located above my forehead. I react very well to scalp massages, I got a lot of regrwoth after the summer when I was doing the massaging vigorously.

Do you have any idea what this cold extremities could be??
I notce my hands warm up if i exercise then I eat a meal and they just become warm and tingly.

I dont have Raynaud.
I tested thyroid antibodies, they are negative.
Finasteride regrew 90% of my hair, it was perfect and dark.

If someone has a useful idea what it can be or how i can make it go away, my hats off.

Oversensitive adrenaline receptors? Is it possible?

 

[raven]

@freeflow I have the same issue. My TE hair test suggested it was because it was of my slow metabolic type. (paraympathetic dominant, tendency towards low thyroid and adrenal secretion). Obviously your thyroid is normal but maybe it could be one of the other two?

 

[freeflow]

@freeflow I have the same issue. My TE hair test suggested it was because it was of my slow metabolic type. (paraympathetic dominant, tendency towards low thyroid and adrenal secretion). Obviously your thyroid is normal but maybe it could be one of the other two?

I was warming up a lot of times just without exercising after my summer water fast. Did they suggest you anything @raven how to get out of this parasymphatetic dominance? Before PFS I was very very motivated and active/doing sports all the time yet I was still cold.

I was also thinking about mitochondria issue but your suggestion (TE's) seems right. Where can i see your test?

 

[raven]

Here is the test with all the information they provided me. I think it would definitely be worth getting one yourself
Raven - Hair Analysis

 

[freeflow]

Here is the test with all the information they provided me. I think it would definitely be worth getting one yourself
Raven - Hair Analysis

Do you have suggestions how to activate the sympathetic nervous system?
1, exercise,
2, cold showers (im unable to do them, my body becomes unbearably cold after them and i cannot function, its only possible in the summer for me)
3, caffeine (makes my anxiety shoot up, gaba antagonist)
4, intermittent fasting?? (i become even colder if i skip meals)

 

[Helen]

cold extremities could be from high adrenaline . Most hairloss cases are from high aldosterone to renin ratio. it is a mutation. then the body raises progesterone to fight it , and spends tons of zinc and magnesium on it. Then you take finasteride which raises the metabolism, and blocks aldo receptors. as all progestins do. Body raises adrenaline. Since when aldo is blocked body needs more adrenaline.

You can follow electrolytes protocol, and you can salt load. Salt load will make your aldo receptors less sensitive. and adrenaline to go down. and dopamine to go up.

 

[freeflow]

cold extremities could be from high adrenaline . Most hairloss cases are from high aldosterone to renin ratio. it is a mutation. then the body raises progesterone to fight it , and spends tons of zinc and magnesium on it. Then you take finasteride which raises the metabolism, and blocks aldo receptors. as all progestins do. Body raises adrenaline. Since when aldo is blocked body needs more adrenaline.

You can follow electrolytes protocol, and you can salt load. Salt load will make your aldo receptors less sensitive. and adrenaline to go down. and dopamine to go up.

I have this cold hands and feet for 10+ years not just since taking fin, and apart from the cold extremities i DO NOT have any other symptoms pointing towards high adrenaline, like: rapid heartbeat, high blood pressure, palpitations etc.

When I took 1 dose of ella I had typical 5ari side effects like anxiety and insomnia for 1 day, and MY HAIR TURNED ALMOST BLACK FOR 1 WEEK.
Same with fin, my hair became very very dark, almost black. Now its back to ligthish brown.
Ella just did the opposite what my body needs. I would need progesterone in my opinion, to downregulate progesterone receptors.

If i salt my food I get up 2 times at night to pee, very uncomfortable, same when I used salt scrubbing on my head, pissing all day.
What about licorice for this instead of salt?

I also pee too much if i take pine pollen or use too much KCl.

 

[brix]

I have this cold hands and feet for 10+ years not just since taking fin, and apart from the cold extremities i DO NOT have any other symptoms pointing towards high adrenaline, like: rapid heartbeat, high blood pressure, palpitations etc.

When I took 1 dose of ella I had typical 5ari side effects like anxiety and insomnia for 1 day, and MY HAIR TURNED ALMOST BLACK FOR 1 WEEK.
Same with fin, my hair became very very dark, almost black. Now its back to ligthish brown.
Ella just did the opposite what my body needs. I would need progesterone in my opinion, to downregulate progesterone receptors.

If i salt my food I get up 2 times at night to pee, very uncomfortable, same when I used salt scrubbing on my head, pissing all day.
What about licorice for this instead of salt?

I also pee too much if i take pine pollen or use too much KCl.

How are you feeling now after Ella?

 

[freeflow]

How are you feeling now after Ella?

Everything got back to the same level after 3-5 days. Since it I ran an r andro round for 14 days and I had great snap back benefits. Seriously havent felt that good in a the last 1 year as I felt after coming off R andro.

 

[wuf]

Everything got back to the same level after 3-5 days. Since it I ran an r andro round for 14 days and I had great snap back benefits. Seriously havent felt that good in a the last 1 year as I felt after coming off R andro.

Hey man,
3 questions:
1. While running R Andro you do feel shit? I mean, no libido and no erections?
2. After R Andro cycle, is libido and erections base line improved?
3.Any side effects to report?

 

[Nina]

What is your diet like?

 

[freeflow]

Hey man,
3 questions:
1. While running R Andro you do feel shit? I mean, no libido and no erections?
2. After R Andro cycle, is libido and erections base line improved?
3.Any side effects to report?

4. Did you use a post cycle therapy when coming off r andro?

I started my new r andro cycle today, this time i plan to stay on it for longer, I aim for 3-4 weeks.

1. Yes, libido is definitely lowered if not even 0, dick feels limp. If i did not read about the snap back theory I would probably stop it after 2-3 days as most guys who use it just feel increased libido, increased agression etc, while for me its totally the opposite, libido decreases, erections worsen.
I feel my cortisol is lowered on it because I usually have to take a nap in the afternoon and I sleep deeper at night and fall asleep earlier as well.

2. After coming off r andro I felt the same for 2-3 days like I was still taking it. Then on the 3rd or 4th day I felt the most clear headed Ive ever felt in the last 1-2 years. Motivation was coming back to a degree, music was sounding great and voice was deep. These were the most considerable effects on the snap back. As I start the herb cycling after coming off I had occasionally higher libido than before taking r andro, but what I noticed that I have stronger reaction to herbs. Schisandra is dropping my voice, just like copper. When I used copper with R andro I was feeling very very good personality wise, great humour, unfortunatley I developed this vomiting feeling from copper after 2-3 days and i had to stop. IMO its a low potassium symptom, nausea, vomiting.

3. side effects of r andro i guess you mean negative sides. I had no hair loss on it, curious how its gonna go this cycle. Well when taking it I can feel down, less motivation, fatigue. Sometimes muscles are better. Libido and erections are worse for sure.

4. After coming off I started rotating herbs, tribulus, scisandra, he shou wu, cordyceps (it gives me 5ari sides, anxiety, worries), shilajit, pine pollen, mucuna pruriens, andrographis.

After the snap back i stayed on this high baseline for 3-4 days and crashed with yellow stools, just like @gbolduev describes in the detailed PFS MECHANISM thread. Then I take tribulus and my stools turn back to solid and baseline improves for more days than before r andro. Before r andro tribulus improved me for 1-2 days, now its like double amount of days. I want to mention andrographis, there is a thread about it as its an IDO inhibitor and SOD promoter, I take it and I feel way better, voice is deeper, i want to do things and accomplish in life. Very very good herb.

I think this is my way out, cycling R andro and then doing the herb rotation. While using some thorne extra and some electrolytes. The snap back theory is important for me, otherwise I wouldnt stay as many days on R andro as I do now.

Things that have given me snap back effect and also solid stools:
1.tribulus
2. asparagus
3. r andro
4. alpha lipoic acid

When I crash with yellow stools it totally feels like my body is just running out of something and cannot keep up.
There was a time when I had a snap back then I crashed with diarrhoea, had to go to the bathroom 4 times that day. But before the diarrhoea attack I had pre pfs type libido.

 

[freeflow]

What is your diet like?

I eat fruits, rice, potatoes, prefer leaner meats as greasy food stuffs up my stomach for a long time. Some vegetables, spinach, tomatos, broccoli. Fish 1-2 times a week.
And I occasionally cheat, eat some chocolate or some dairy. Gluten maybe 1 time per month or every 2 months.

 

[MNK99]

@freeflow, so it's possible that "snapback" can occur regardless of any particular implementation either causing an improvement or a worsening of symptoms?
Ideally anything that initially worsens symptoms is only temporary and anything that improves them is permanent. I'll take a note from you on diet, I eat pretty clean for the most part, but need to add some carbs I think at times. And use only extra extra lean beef. Chocolate never killed anyone right? Doesn't make anyone crash?

 

[wuf]

4. Did you use a post cycle therapy when coming off r andro?

I started my new r andro cycle today, this time i plan to stay on it for longer, I aim for 3-4 weeks.

1. Yes, libido is definitely lowered if not even 0, dick feels limp. If i did not read about the snap back theory I would probably stop it after 2-3 days as most guys who use it just feel increased libido, increased agression etc, while for me its totally the opposite, libido decreases, erections worsen.
I feel my cortisol is lowered on it because I usually have to take a nap in the afternoon and I sleep deeper at night and fall asleep earlier as well.

2. After coming off r andro I felt the same for 2-3 days like I was still taking it. Then on the 3rd or 4th day I felt the most clear headed Ive ever felt in the last 1-2 years. Motivation was coming back to a degree, music was sounding great and voice was deep. These were the most considerable effects on the snap back. As I start the herb cycling after coming off I had occasionally higher libido than before taking r andro, but what I noticed that I have stronger reaction to herbs. Schisandra is dropping my voice, just like copper. When I used copper with R andro I was feeling very very good personality wise, great humour, unfortunatley I developed this vomiting feeling from copper after 2-3 days and i had to stop. IMO its a low potassium symptom, nausea, vomiting.

3. side effects of r andro i guess you mean negative sides. I had no hair loss on it, curious how its gonna go this cycle. Well when taking it I can feel down, less motivation, fatigue. Sometimes muscles are better. Libido and erections are worse for sure.

4. After coming off I started rotating herbs, tribulus, scisandra, he shou wu, cordyceps (it gives me 5ari sides, anxiety, worries), shilajit, pine pollen, mucuna pruriens, andrographis.

After the snap back i stayed on this high baseline for 3-4 days and crashed with yellow stools, just like @gbolduev describes in the detailed PFS MECHANISM thread. Then I take tribulus and my stools turn back to solid and baseline improves for more days than before r andro. Before r andro tribulus improved me for 1-2 days, now its like double amount of days. I want to mention andrographis, there is a thread about it as its an IDO inhibitor and SOD promoter, I take it and I feel way better, voice is deeper, i want to do things and accomplish in life. Very very good herb.

I think this is my way out, cycling R andro and then doing the herb rotation. While using some thorne extra and some electrolytes. The snap back theory is important for me, otherwise I wouldnt stay as many days on R andro as I do now.

Things that have given me snap back effect and also solid stools:
1.tribulus
2. asparagus
3. r andro
4. alpha lipoic acid

When I crash with yellow stools it totally feels like my body is just running out of something and cannot keep up.
There was a time when I had a snap back then I crashed with diarrhoea, had to go to the bathroom 4 times that day. But before the diarrhoea attack I had pre pfs type libido.

I never used R Andro.
By the way, without herbs details, is your baseline improved if you do not take anything?

 

[freeflow]

@freeflow, so it's possible that "snapback" can occur regardless of any particular implementation either causing an improvement or a worsening of symptoms?
Ideally anything that initially worsens symptoms is only temporary and anything that improves them is permanent. I'll take a note from you on diet, I eat pretty clean for the most part, but need to add some carbs I think at times. And use only extra extra lean beef. Chocolate never killed anyone right? Doesn't make anyone crash?

Before I got this nausea and vomiting feeling of copper I had dark chocolate cravings. Ever since I was almost throwing up all day I cannot think about dark chocolate.
I ate some milk chocolate but i wouldnt say i do it more than 2 times per month.
Oh and forgot I take resveratrol too.

This time on R andro I will be expermineting with resveratrol and schisandra, estrogenic herbs. If i didnt react badly to copper with r andro id say i could get cured in 4-5 days lol.

 

[freeflow]

I never used R Andro.
By the way, without herbs details, is your baseline improved if you do not take anything?

I dont know, as I used 1 herb every day in the 3 weeks when i was off r andro. I also use some essential amino acids and l histidine.
I think my baseline improved because i tolerate thorne better than before, but i cannot give you a definite yes on this as Im supplementing with many things and I plan on keeping doing it.

 

[aztec]

@freeflow thanks for the r andro response pal. Did you take any supplements while using r-andro? Or you combined everything while doing your r andro cycle? Sorry if I missed this previously.

 

[Moonman]

First of all its not a complete thryoid panel. I can almost guarentee that your RT3 is high. Its also possible that you have adrenal issues. Cortisol allows the thyroid hormones to enter the cells.

 

[freeflow]

First of all its not a complete thryoid panel. I can almost guarentee that your RT3 is high. Its also possible that you have adrenal issues. Cortisol allows the thyroid hormones to enter the cells.

You are right, I will measure RT3.