PFS and immune connection

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Re: PFS and inmune connection

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4511" time="1510966062" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4511 time=1510966062 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="4506" time="1510964324" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=4506 time=1510964324 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4504" time="1510961889" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4504 time=1510961889 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<br/>
<br/>
5 alpha R2 is what controls glucocorticoids.<br/>
<br/>
This is why when you feed glucocorticoids the expression of this enzyme goes up. This is how finasteride screws everything over by effecting cortisol and progesterone.<br/>
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I just took finasteride huge dosages 3 weeks ago. and had a huge crash. And today I am back to normal already.<br/>
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Here is what I am taking. Put some accent on copper and magnesium at the start to lower potassium levels.<br/>
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I am taking 3000 potassium chloride, (1/8 th of tea spoon)<br/>
magnesium gluconate 500-700<br/>
copper 4-6mg<br/>
zinc 30mg<br/>
taurine 2g<br/>
b2 -100<br/>
boron 2<br/>
calcium 200 <br/>
Also I take ACE( acezatolmide) here and there 250mg<br/>
Also I added tons of spinach to this protocol<br/>
<br/>
after a week<br/>
once a week thorne extra<br/>
and iron with manganese
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Will ACE have lasting effects or only work when you're on it? I think i have mild respiratory acidosis
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<br/>
March, I took ace to get rid of bicarbonate faster
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</e></QUOTE>

I have a question about fasting<br/>
<br/>
I see a typical slow oxidiser with high calcium, high magnesium, low sodium, low potassium. Fasting balances them.<br/>
<br/>
What about a non-typical slow oxidiser i.e. they have a 4 lows pattern? Will fasting balance them? Or deplete their minerals further?</r>
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
Re: PFS and inmune connection

<r><QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="4512" time="1510966632" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=4512 time=1510966632 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4511" time="1510966062" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4511 time=1510966062 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="4506" time="1510964324" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=4506 time=1510964324 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<br/>
Will ACE have lasting effects or only work when you're on it? I think i have mild respiratory acidosis
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

<br/>
March, I took ace to get rid of bicarbonate faster
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I have a question about fasting<br/>
<br/>
I see a typical slow oxidiser with high calcium, high magnesium, low sodium, low potassium. Fasting balances them.<br/>
<br/>
What about a non-typical slow oxidiser i.e. they have a 4 lows pattern? Will fasting balance them? Or deplete their minerals further?
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

<br/>
If 4 lows in slow oxidizer, fasting is ok</r>
 

Nighteyes

Well-Known Member
Messages
95
Re: PFS and inmune connection

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4513" time="1510966757" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4513 time=1510966757 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="4512" time="1510966632" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=4512 time=1510966632 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4511" time="1510966062" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4511 time=1510966062 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
March, I took ace to get rid of bicarbonate faster
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I have a question about fasting<br/>
<br/>
I see a typical slow oxidiser with high calcium, high magnesium, low sodium, low potassium. Fasting balances them.<br/>
<br/>
What about a non-typical slow oxidiser i.e. they have a 4 lows pattern? Will fasting balance them? Or deplete their minerals further?
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

<br/>
If 4 lows in slow oxidizer, fasting is ok
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Wouldn't the risk of messing up the elctrolytes be greater in a slow oxidizer since they already have low potassium and sodium? It is the only thing that keeps me from taking on an extended fast. Worried about lowering sodium more than it already is. <br/>
<br/>
Also Dr. Wilson mentions a few time that people who are toxic in heavy metals should never fast but eat protein and vegetables to ensure chelation is best (I guess because ceruloplasmin and glutathione requires protein). Why do you think fasting is effective at chelaing even when mineral and protein intake is low? He basically makes many OPPOSITE point here: <br/>
<URL url="http://drlwilson.com/Articles/FASTING.htm">http://drlwilson.com/Articles/FASTING.htm</URL></r>
 

RedStaR

Well-Known Member
Messages
73
Re: PFS and inmune connection

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="4402" time="1510915322" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=4402 time=1510915322 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="4401" time="1510913047" user_id="112"><s>
BeLikeWater post_id=4401 time=1510913047 user_id=112 said:
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Can we relate to the thread theme dont interfere.<br/>
<br/>
For example take exogenous test or increase DHT with things like Sorghum end up with better 5arw activity (better sebum) but feeling worse mentally, brain fog, etc... Seems the key here is upgrade 5ar1 activity to have DHT in brain, allo, etc...
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

<br/>
This is related to this thread and immune response. PFS puts you into alkalosis and this does not allow immune response to happen. Usually when you get sick, you go into acidosis. In PFS you cant do it. And thus you are getting chronic infections, which when you start fixing alkalosis you will FEEL so much it is not even funny. You will be sick big time.<br/>
<br/>
taking exogenous test or DHT causes you to downregulate 3 beta hsd and 450scc. Which is already downregulated. thus your iron is not being used HENCE no immune response.<br/>
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Same happens with POIS people. when POIS people get sick, their pois disappears. they dont get sick often since they are in alkalosis. In alkalosis there is no immune response. And when you have flu body tries to go into acidosis , which lowers cortisol since acidosis tanks potassium in the cell. When potassium is tanked , cortisol needs to be broken down. and it is broken down by 5 alpha reductase 2. Thus its activity goes UP and most PFS and POIS symptoms disappear. The only problem is this will raise progesterone requirement and wont allow 5 alpha reductase to go online fully. Thus you need to create an environment when both progesterone and cortisol ARE NOT NEEDED. only this will put 5 alpha reductase back online.<br/>
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Taking cortisol tanks immune system. And increases 5 alpha reducates 2. since it is needed to break down cortisol and progesterone into it metabolites.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
taking high dose progesterone or dexamethasone at the same time would force the body to upregulate 5 alpha reductase 2.<br/>
<br/>
But it is much easier to do the same with mineral route which I outlined<br/>
<br/>
Copper keep thyroid low, while you increase potassium. This will allow both cortisol and progesterone to come down. And this will allow upregulation of 5 alpha reducate 2<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
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Bottom line. Finasteride blocks 5 alpha reductase 2. this happens since finasterid is progestine which effects both cortisol and progesterone. this causes the unsolvable alkalotic discrepancy between cortisol and progesterone.<br/>
<br/>
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Cortisol lowers potassium in the cell, progesterone increases potassium in the cell. HERE you have both high progesterone and high cortisol . And cortisol cant come down, since progesterone is retaining the potassium. And progesterone cant come down, since 5 alpha reductase 2 is down. 5 alpha reductase 2 cant go back up, since cortisol is needed, since potassium is sky high in the cell, because of alkalosis.<br/>
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You see the mechanism here. <br/>
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To break this mechanism. you need to create an environment when both cortisol and progesterone are satisfied.<br/>
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Progesterone is satisfied by potassium. Cortisol is satisfied by lower metabolism( copper) Mangesium gets rid of sodium retention which cortisol caused. B2 lowers serotonin<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
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INSULIN will go up , only when progesterone COMES DOWN. Since high progesterone signal the body potassium deficiency, and in potassium deficiency insulin secretion will be ZERO. Since insulin puts potassium in the CELL.<br/>
<br/>
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PROGESTERONE causes INSULIN TO BE ZERO and actually causes FRANK DIABETES.<br/>
<br/>
<URL url="http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full">http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full</URL> <br/>
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RU486 reverses this.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
But progesterone is raised in the body when potassium is deficient. Thus you better off take the mineral route that I outlined
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</e></QUOTE>

Hi Gboldeuv.<br/>
<br/>
I just wanted to point out that the overall cycle is correct, but the spill-over effects might be reversed. For example, in an acidosis blood environment, it's usually the 5-AR II that gets upregulated in response, which in turn, lowers cortisol. Whether that is a byproduct of nature is most likely rational, but it is a correlation, not a causation. <br/>
<br/>
The other point that I wanted to point out is that in PFS and PSSD subjects, insulin is not always low (in the blood). But that doesn't mean that insulin is doing it's work either. It's simply a matter of insulin desensitivity, since cortisol and insulin tend to move together in normal situations. But in this case, both should be in the high normal range due to chronic elevation and receptor desensitization (among other reasons).</r>
 

RedStaR

Well-Known Member
Messages
73
Re: PFS and inmune connection

<r><QUOTE author="BeLikeWater" post_id="4502" time="1510961182" user_id="112"><s>
BeLikeWater post_id=4502 time=1510961182 user_id=112 said:
</s>
5ar2 and 5ar1 have different functions, the only one present in the brain is 5ar1 and seem to be opposed by T/DHT in blood, while 5ar2 ( sebaceous glands, prostate ) seems to be activated more by T/DHT in blood pointing to an inverse mechanism related to androgens. You definetly should check that out. Melcangi Pointed that we had very low neurosteroids that comes from 5ar1 in CNS. 5ar2 has no functions on brain.
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</e></QUOTE>

That's not true, 5-AR II is almost as ubiquitous as 5-AR I, with variable densities obviously.</r>
 

BeLikeWater

Well-Known Member
Messages
353
RedStaR post_id=5045 time=1511640135 user_id=1406 said:
BeLikeWater post_id=5040 time=1511624124 user_id=112 said:
RedStaR post_id=5032 time=1511618588 user_id=1406 said:
There are literally hundreds of journals on pubmed and google scholar...


Yeah? Show me 1.

....why?

Why? Because we are here to cure PFS and you are negating one of the most basic basic about the 5ar2 enzyme? You need more reasons?
 

RedStaR

Well-Known Member
Messages
73
BeLikeWater post_id=5051 time=1511645391 user_id=112 said:
RedStaR post_id=5045 time=1511640135 user_id=1406 said:
BeLikeWater post_id=5040 time=1511624124 user_id=112 said:
Yeah? Show me 1.

....why?

Why? Because we are here to cure PFS and you are negating one of the most basic basic about the 5ar2 enzyme? You need more reasons?

Hold on, so WHY do you THINK that neurosteroid levels in the brain and the CSF are FUCKED UP on the drug and sometimes AFTER it?
 

BeLikeWater

Well-Known Member
Messages
353
So after saying that that there is 5ar2 and neither any of you two has managed to show any document pointing otherwise I dont feel I need to keepntaling with you.
 

Canari

Member
Messages
1,609
When people are kind enough to give some tips and share what they have learned through years (which I do too by the way, or else I would not understand that asking for proves is a bit too much....), i can imagine that I like to be asked to explain a few things, but only for what cannot be found easily. Sometimes people have to look for proves themselves if they need them!