PFS theory

[opiath]

Guys I have a theory about PFS:

I think that people who get PFS side effects are all copper deficient.
My reasoning is the following: Copper is the strongest 5AR inhibitor in the human body and also controls iron.
https://www.jidonline.org/article/S0022-202X(15)42127-X/pdf





What happens if you don't have enough copper in the body?
DHT hormones are raised too much.
So the body in order limit DHT production crashes NADPH generation because it's missing copper to stop 5AR.
This is a problem because you need NADPH for everything. When you run out of NAPDH your metabolism crashes down.
Body cannot raise NAPDH again because without copper, DHT is gonna cause problems.
So 5AR receptors upregulate to work with low levels of hormones.

As long as you are copper deficient you stay in PFS because without copper you are also loosing your zinc.
I think a possible protocol would be: 6-10 mg copper sulfate per day.
When body starts asking for zinc (symptoms like: feeling cold, cant sleep, hair is thinning out) you add zinc picolinate 20-50mg per day
You do that for like 2-3 months and when copper + zinc levels go up your body will start producing NADPH and this will lower 5AR sensitivity.
I suggest reading these 3 articles about copper from this woman:
Questioning Copper "Toxicity" Part 1
Questioning Copper Toxicity Part 2
Questioning Copper Toxicity Part 3

You can read this by Jason Hommel but I think his dosing is too extreme. 50mg copper per day is insane.
The Copper Revolution Protocol 2023 - RevealingFraud.com

Also this study is really good: https://www.jidonline.org/article/S0022-202X(15)42127-X/pdf

 

[zancek0]

Interesting.

Potentially related ----

My crash happened after carelessly experimenting with a pharma grade aromatase inhibitor (aromasin) and some natural AIs (was naively trying to combat very low libido which I assumed was due to high E2 that persisted months after covid/vaccine).
I've since come into contact with 4-6 people that also crashed with AIs and developed what we could call PAIS. Basically various "low E2 symptoms" that persist despite normal blood levels.

What I found interesting is that every single one of these people, including myself, regularly supplemented with zinc prior to the crash. Some of them were megadosing it, 50-150mg.

Later I've had oligoscan and HTMA done. Both showed normal (oligo) or low (HTMA) copper levels but high (oligo) or normal (HTMA) zinc. So, at both tests zinc:copper ratio was too high.

I wonder how that relates to what you've said here.

 

[zancek0]

I think a metal like mercury probably more often than not displaces copper and zinc. In PFS.

This is what happened to me. You’re killing copper with dht or killing estrogen with an ai. Estrogen retains cu. Dht kills cu.

There comes a point where you get copper working again but is the damage done and it’s too late.

My case I donated bloood giving away fe3 which is needed for catalase. Now chelating mercury im finally getting copper to go back online. That said? The worst is happening. I cannot tolerate my body functioning correctly due to the lack of fe3.

Fe3 b12 are needed for catalase. And I just cannot handle the hydrogen peroxide without it. The blood donation 6 years into PFS when I really was learning my stuff… sent me down the last 14 months . This is becoming ALs or Parkinson’s due to one stupid blood donation .

Hm, look into ME-3 probiotic. Glutathione synthesizing bacteria. This could put the pressure off catalase since you'd have more glutathione available for glut peroxidase which would also take care of hydrogen peroxide.
ME-3 was also found to scavenge hydroxyl radicals.

 

[tjanok]

Guys I have a theory about PFS:

I think that people who get PFS side effects are all copper deficient.
My reasoning is the following: Copper is the strongest 5AR inhibitor in the human body and also controls iron.
https://www.jidonline.org/article/S0022-202X(15)42127-X/pdf

View attachment 1904



What happens if you don't have enough copper in the body?
DHT hormones are raised too much.
So the body in order limit DHT production crashes NADPH generation because it's missing copper to stop 5AR.
This is a problem because you need NADPH for everything. When you run out of NAPDH your metabolism crashes down.
Body cannot raise NAPDH again because without copper, DHT is gonna cause problems.
So 5AR receptors upregulate to work with low levels of hormones.

As long as you are copper deficient you stay in PFS because without copper you are also loosing your zinc.
I think a possible protocol would be: 6-10 mg copper sulfate per day.
When body starts asking for zinc (symptoms like: feeling cold, cant sleep, hair is thinning out) you add zinc picolinate 20-50mg per day
You do that for like 2-3 months and when copper + zinc levels go up your body will start producing NADPH and this will lower 5AR sensitivity.
I suggest reading these 3 articles about copper from this woman:
Questioning Copper "Toxicity" Part 1
Questioning Copper Toxicity Part 2
Questioning Copper Toxicity Part 3

You can read this by Jason Hommel but I think his dosing is too extreme. 50mg copper per day is insane.
The Copper Revolution Protocol 2023 - RevealingFraud.com

Also this study is really good: https://www.jidonline.org/article/S0022-202X(15)42127-X/pdf

My HTMA always shows high cooper/normal-high zinc. So unfortunately, my PFS specific case doesn't fall in-line with this.

 

[zancek0]

My HTMA always shows high cooper/normal-high zinc. So unfortunately, my PFS specific case doesn't fall in-line with this.

Disclaimer: I'm not yet sure what to make of this theory but ----
The copper levels on HTMA is a very debatable issue. High levels in hair don't necessarily mean copper toxicity. And low levels don't necessarily mean copper deficiency. HTMA experts read these mineral values not in isolation but together with other mineral levels.
Also, HTMA people have this concept of bio-availability and bio-unavailability. It refers to the observation that minerals in our bodies use transporters to travel via bloodstream to different parts of the body; these transporters can be inhibited (usually by inflammation) so in these cases the minerals cannot move and simply stay stored in particular tissues (liver): they don't get used up because they cannot get transported to where they need to be (different cells in the body that use up these mineral ions in enzymatic activities etc.). The values of minerals on these hair tests by themselves don't directly show this inhibition of transporters. The inhibition needs to be deduced by interpreting many mineral values and their ratios simultaneously...

 

[tjanok]

Disclaimer: I'm not yet sure what to make of this theory but ----
The copper levels on HTMA is a very debatable issue. High levels in hair don't necessarily mean copper toxicity. And low levels don't necessarily mean copper deficiency. HTMA experts read these mineral values not in isolation but together with other mineral levels.
Also, HTMA people have this concept of bio-availability and bio-unavailability. It refers to the observation that minerals in our bodies use transporters to travel via bloodstream to different parts of the body; these transporters can be inhibited (usually by inflammation) so in these cases the minerals cannot move and simply stay stored in particular tissues (liver): they don't get used up because they cannot get transported to where they need to be (different cells in the body that use up these mineral ions in enzymatic activities etc.). The values of minerals on these hair tests by themselves don't directly show this inhibition of transporters. The inhibition needs to be deduced by interpreting many mineral values and their ratios simultaneously...

Is HTMA the only way to really figure out these values? (I'm still new to these tests)

 

[Admiral]

These articles are interesting. I am on an ARL hair test supplement program, but always in doubt whether I am copper deficient or copper toxic, if that is even a real thing. The program concentrates in eliminating copper. But it could be eliminating the little copper I have left and make me worse.

On the other hand, I’ve had months of supplementing with copper that brought me nothing.

Maybe higher doses are needed?

 

[TubZy]

Guys I have a theory about PFS:

I think that people who get PFS side effects are all copper deficient.
My reasoning is the following: Copper is the strongest 5AR inhibitor in the human body and also controls iron.
https://www.jidonline.org/article/S0022-202X(15)42127-X/pdf

View attachment 1904



What happens if you don't have enough copper in the body?
DHT hormones are raised too much.
So the body in order limit DHT production crashes NADPH generation because it's missing copper to stop 5AR.
This is a problem because you need NADPH for everything. When you run out of NAPDH your metabolism crashes down.
Body cannot raise NAPDH again because without copper, DHT is gonna cause problems.
So 5AR receptors upregulate to work with low levels of hormones.

As long as you are copper deficient you stay in PFS because without copper you are also loosing your zinc.
I think a possible protocol would be: 6-10 mg copper sulfate per day.
When body starts asking for zinc (symptoms like: feeling cold, cant sleep, hair is thinning out) you add zinc picolinate 20-50mg per day
You do that for like 2-3 months and when copper + zinc levels go up your body will start producing NADPH and this will lower 5AR sensitivity.
I suggest reading these 3 articles about copper from this woman:
Questioning Copper "Toxicity" Part 1
Questioning Copper Toxicity Part 2
Questioning Copper Toxicity Part 3

You can read this by Jason Hommel but I think his dosing is too extreme. 50mg copper per day is insane.
The Copper Revolution Protocol 2023 - RevealingFraud.com

Also this study is really good: https://www.jidonline.org/article/S0022-202X(15)42127-X/pdf

This is an interesting approach. As we know, while on fin, estrogen increases which increases copper and maybe once you stop fin (i.e. crash) estrogen tanks and copper is gone. Also, many of the pfs symptoms tie with estrogen/copper deficient symptoms (loss of collagen, low SOD, lack of pigmented skin (can't tan), can't build muscle etc.) Zinc also needs copper in order to work properly too.

Many people crash or have similar pfs type symptoms from taking excess zinc which can inhibit or tank copper. Also, one thing to note is that copper will not be able to restore if you are taking anything that blocks its absorption (zinc, vitamin C, magnesium etc.) so in order to restore it you would probably have to stop all things that block copper.

 

[Admiral]

My problem is 100% copper deficiency. But simply taking copper isn’t working.

 

[Admiral]

Also, lots of people here have been on copper supplementation. Myself included. Due to a skewed hair test (hydrogen water), I was diagnosed a fast oxidizer and supplemented with copper for a year. Did absolutely nothing for my symptoms.

 

[bruschi11]

My problem is 100% copper deficiency. But simply taking copper isn’t working.

Have you tested dhea in the past?

Copper deficiency leads to dhea def leads to 7 keto dhea def.

Without 7 keto dhea you’re not gonna be using selenium. Selenium can accumulate in tissues. And kill cysteine dht zinc and so on.

I’m using oligoscan and doing bloods with serum/ rbc minerals selenium zinc copper to judge this.

I’m not saying we have same problem. But long term copper deficiency causes issues. No other way to put it.

Do you have high serum b12?

Whatever data you do have. Bloodwork hair . I could check it out.

I’m liking oligoscan right now a lot better than htma.

 

[bruschi11]

Ok so I’m seeing the theory above. By @opiath

He’s saying we need nadph.

Well. Gbold mentioned this. Nadph oxidase inhibition = nadph. Nadph oxidase kills nadph.

Gbold was thinking about iodine. Iodine is an nadph oxidase inhibitor. But also iodine is like step 1 to health in the body according to so many. T4.

Step 1 in electron transport chain is FMN. FMN needs thyroid first. First thing for thyroid is iodine.

Like 90% of the chronic illnesses I’m seeing in oligoscans have low iodine. Many have high selenium . I think fixing the ratio of these is which we want.

I’m working on this now. I am using 7 keto dhea and 11 keto dht for help with iodine supplementation, zinc , cholines, mag , chromium, E, C ‘have a few others. B2 b6 beta alanine/ carnosine (for bh4 support)

I am using a low b12 diet. I believe iodine is blown up by high b12. My b12 is high in blood. Cuz b12 raises hif1a putting pressure on VHL- the iodine + selenium enzyme essentially.

There is a lot going on here. I hate pushing people to spend money. But I was able to see my own situation from a much better light with oligoscan.

I theorized I had selenium toxicity 2-3 months ago. And after using some 7 keto dhea, to pull sele from tissues, I was able to confirm the sele toxicity this week with high serum sele in blood.

 

[TubZy]

My problem is 100% copper deficiency. But simply taking copper isn’t working.

Interesting...did you try that protocol in OP post about taking big doses of copper sulfate multiple times a day for a month while removing anything that blocks copper? And then after a month of copper adding in zinc at night with the copper?

 

[Admiral]

Never. If I am copper toxic, that would set me back years.

 

[bruschi11]

Never. If I am copper toxic, that would set me back years.

It wouldn’t be like that. But it’s just still not the right protocol.

People fix their ferritin by fixing iodine selenium balance. Copper comes up when thyroid is balanced. Ferritin needs copper.

Copper deficiency causes body inability to use selenium correctly. PFS kills copper. Which kills dhea. Which kills 7 keto dhea.

We have to be using our selenium in order to get thyroid working and metabolizing oxygen. This is FMN complex 1.

So you need b2 to go with it likely once you get this started up.

The GRJ protocol was deadly and wrong for PFS people. Cuz we are all copper deficient. If you’re copper deficient you can’t make 7 keto dhea and you end up selenium toxic.

In selenium toxicity we kill dht. When we start system up it is a battle. As selenium gets into the blood in high amounts.

This is copper deficiency at its core. We can’t get thyroid working . As we lose ability to use selenium.

I’m not saying this is 100% your case @Admiral . It’s a theory. But people with chronic copper deficiency. The ugly one we talk about where taking copper doesn’t work. I think this is the case for the majority.

 

[Admiral]

I’ll just continue ARL for a year and then do something else.

 

[Fazed22]

Never. If I am copper toxic, that would set me back years.

What colour are your stools, if yellow or tan it would indicate copper toxicity in the liver, if dark brown then it wouldn't mean that. I would be concerned if was taking copper for a year and wasn't feeling anything from it, if your body isn't using it then it probably isn't excreting it either and instead storing it.

Also it is especially the yeasts and molds that really mess with copper metabolism the most so if you have an overgrowth of any of those then they'll be stealing all your copper.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Most people get a lot of copper in their diet now. I see many people eating nuts, chocolate, liver (hyped up now),etc. I doubt copper is an issue. For me copper was high in start of PFS. Had many symptoms. I would never ever take copper. Even other minerals zinc and stuff can cause issues but never so much as copper for me. Taking copper is dangerous.

Maybe if you did something crazy that blocks it like me. I took a lot of anti copper stuff and got deficient. But I took that crap for a long time. Most people don't even get close to that.

Theres probably some people here who are copper deficient. But then I would definitely go the hairtest route. I found messing with zinc/copper ratio and going by"feeling" in general is risky. I did it but also suffered a lot doing it.

 

[Fazed22]

Most people get a lot of copper in their diet now. I see many people eating nuts, chocolate, liver (hyped up now),etc. I doubt copper is an issue. For me copper was high in start of PFS. Had many symptoms. I would never ever take copper. Even other minerals zinc and stuff can cause issues but never so much as copper for me. Taking copper is dangerous.

Maybe if you did something crazy that blocks it like me. I took a lot of anti copper stuff and got deficient. But I took that crap for a long time. Most people don't even get close to that.

Theres probably some people here who are copper deficient. But then I would definitely go the hairtest route. I found messing with zinc/copper ratio and going by"feeling" in general is risky. I did it but also suffered a lot doing it.

Copper from food doesn't seem to be an issue, but copper supplements are much less bioavailable and you can run into toxicity issues much easier if your metabolism isn't working properly

 

[Fazed22]

I’ll just continue ARL for a year and then do something else.

Most the ARL practioners are switching to valence supplements, they say they are working much more effectively and detoxing people a lot faster than the ARL supplements