PUFA: Good or bad?

[RebelWithACause]

Ray Peat is against PUFA. A lot of health people agree that PUFA is bad.

But there is also Lyle McDonald (strength & conditioning coach) and Taeian Clark saying PUFA is OK and actually healthy. Especially uncooked PUFA like Sesame Oil.

Taeian claims uncooked PUFA is anti-cancer. And increases thyroid sensitivity by 20%. Also increased insulin sensitivity.

They both agree to avoid cooked PUFA.

Taeian claims it helps with skin moisture. I did notice my skin was oilier when I included some PUFA and ate good amount of fat fish. For me this is good because I naturally have dryer skin.

Both agree that PUFA is not necessarily bad and it actually quickly utilised by the body.

Some quotes by Taeian:

"This is where food choices matter. It may seem as simple as eat more to grow more or eat less to lose weight. When someone gives you a calorie total or macro total goal to attain, it is a sure-fire method to lead to sub-optimal results. If the majority of the fats are procured from specifically saturated fats as compared to PUFA fats, there is going vast difference in the body composition. PUFA fats provide 3-times more muscle mass gain than the other fats group. Also, PUFA fat also helps prevent abdominal and visceral fat gain and had more fat loss in total."

"PUFA fats are in abundance in sunflower seeds, showed x3 the muscle growth over saturated fats and helped prevent abdominal fat gain and visceral fat gain, unlike saturated fats.)"

I want to know is uncooked PUFA safe to eat and actually good to include in diet?

 

[Ben123]

Its garbage that doesn't belong in warm blooded humans. It creates oxidative stress because it goes rancid and reacts with heat, light and oxygen.
It creates problems short term and long term.
Im with Ray Peat on this one 100%
SAFA is only stable fat in our body.
But that's just my opinion, this forum is pretty pro-PUFA, anti-Peat .

 

[RedStaR]

But how is saturated fat like coconut oil liquid at 30+C° while we don't melt more than 100C°

 

[RebelWithACause]

Its garbage that doesn't belong in warm blooded humans. It creates oxidative stress because it goes rancid and reacts with heat, light and oxygen.
It creates problems short term and long term.
Im with Ray Peat on this one 100%
SAFA is only stable fat in our body.
But that's just my opinion, this forum is pretty pro-PUFA, anti-Peat .

Don't think people here are Pro-PUFA. I have not seen people promoting PUFA here.

Thanks for the opinion on it. I agree saturated fat is probably best fat source. But if PUFA has benefits - like Taeian claims it actually sensitises thyroid receptor or cell. Then why not add it to diet at low levels.

 

[Helen]

Its garbage that doesn't belong in warm blooded humans. It creates oxidative stress because it goes rancid and reacts with heat, light and oxygen.
It creates problems short term and long term.
Im with Ray Peat on this one 100%
SAFA is only stable fat in our body.
But that's just my opinion, this forum is pretty pro-PUFA, anti-Peat .

This forum is not pro PUFA

 

[Helen]

Don't think people here are Pro-PUFA. I have not seen people promoting PUFA here.

Thanks for the opinion on it. I agree saturated fat is probably best fat source. But if PUFA has benefits - like Taeian claims it actually sensitises thyroid. Then why not add it to diet at low levels.

Pufa does not sensitize the thyroid. Pufa can make the cell more permeable to hormones. that is good and bad.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Pufa does not sensitize the thyroid. Pufa can make the cell more permeable to hormones. that is good and bad.

OK so better to avoid it.

If it does not have health benefits I will avoid it. You will get some in anyways through other sources (fish, eggs, meat, olive oil).

 

[SwaZ]

Not a big fan of it.
I normaly get 4-8 grams from diet as i consume a lot of fat in general, im okay with that ammount.
But if i eat anything fried in it such as french fries i break out in acne and dont feel to good.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Not a big fan of it.
I normaly get 4-8 grams from diet as i consume a lot of fat in general, im okay with that ammount.
But if i eat anything fried in it such as french fries i break out in acne and dont feel to good.

I notice my face becomes oilier. So if you are prone to acne that might be the cause.

The MUFA and PUFA fats are needed for multiple reasons here. Not just hair health, but skin health as well. PUFA fats been the victim of severely misguided teachings, leaving them with a bad reputation – but I assure you, PUFA fats are NOT bad for you. Getting them from healthy sources has countless proven health benefits: anti-carcinogenic, anti-inflammatory, pro-sleep, pro-thyroid, etc. The benefits of unheated PUFA fats are a very deep topic on their own.
The epidermis of your skin is made of 60 percent Omega-6 PUFA fats. Do not fall for the “Omega-3 must be higher than Omega-6” speech that has no proven benefits and multiple proven detriments. All of the studies linking PUFA fats to health issues look at the typical use for PUFA fats in the western diet: cooking, frying, and otherwise heating the fats. If we are to take the same controlled environment but introduce raw, unheated PUFA fats from seeds and nuts, the studies flip completely. Anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, and all-around health marker improvement is marked.

 

[r4ndom]

what the fuck does a strength and conditioning coach know about pufa

 

[RebelWithACause]

what the fuck does a strength and conditioning coach know about pufa

What do you want? I am discussing PUFA here. If you want to discuss why someone can/cannot give advice on PUFA you can contact them personally.

 

[SwaZ]

I notice my face becomes oilier. So if you are prone to acne that might be the cause.

The MUFA and PUFA fats are needed for multiple reasons here. Not just hair health, but skin health as well. PUFA fats been the victim of severely misguided teachings, leaving them with a bad reputation – but I assure you, PUFA fats are NOT bad for you. Getting them from healthy sources has countless proven health benefits: anti-carcinogenic, anti-inflammatory, pro-sleep, pro-thyroid, etc. The benefits of unheated PUFA fats are a very deep topic on their own.
The epidermis of your skin is made of 60 percent Omega-6 PUFA fats. Do not fall for the “Omega-3 must be higher than Omega-6” speech that has no proven benefits and multiple proven detriments. All of the studies linking PUFA fats to health issues look at the typical use for PUFA fats in the western diet: cooking, frying, and otherwise heating the fats. If we are to take the same controlled environment but introduce raw, unheated PUFA fats from seeds and nuts, the studies flip completely. Anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, and all-around health marker improvement is marked.

Nuts and seeds are good i guess, you also get vitamin E with the pufa so it balances out.
I just try and avoid anything cooked in pufa.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Nuts and seeds are good i guess, you also get vitamin E with the pufa so it balances out.
I just try and avoid anything cooked in pufa.

Yea. I tried uncooked sesame oil (I think it also contains vitamin E) a week ago with fish. It tastes good. But I will limit it if it is unhealthy.

I never eat cooked PUFA

 

[MNK99]

WHICH fats are good which are garbage?
Margarine kills everyone ?
OLIVE OIL fine just never cook in it, do not let it combust etc? Do not heat past a certain point (i.e. boiling)?
Dairy from pure cows (Norway, etc) is fine? Some other countries.
Canadian cow butter = extremely dangerous??
Same with Ghee ?
Coco oil?

 

[r4ndom]

WHICH fats are good which are garbage?
Margarine kills everyone ?
OLIVE OIL fine just never cook in it, do not let it combust etc? Do not heat past a certain point (i.e. boiling)?
Dairy from pure cows (Norway, etc) is fine? Some other countries.
Canadian cow butter = extremely dangerous??
Same with Ghee ?
Coco oil?

saturated fat is good

 

[IHateFin]

PUFA is horrible MUFA is half as bad and saturated fat is good.

 

[MNK99]

@r4ndom I mean, it can vary.

ALTHOUGH Alberta Beef (when grassfed) is highly sought after, only next to like KOBE Beef (JAPAN), it's high up there. That's beef though and not "cow products", and it's high grade beef (not like just any part of the cow or whatever).

-BUt yeah heart attacks and strokes and clogged arteries are bad, so I'll cut all PUFA's. Barely eat them, mostly I always use olive oil, but even the BEST olive oil may be bad acc to some.

 

[r4ndom]

@r4ndom I mean, I was lean, fitter than most, athletic looking (Not Super Jacked), faster than like near all (in short distances), ...and I ate olive oil and also some margarine like in rice (margarine with olive oil), supposedly chemically structurally similar to plastic (not that this actually matters, totally different compound).

I mean, yeah PFS and all.... eat even healthier... but, none of these things in isolation will just kill a person. If you're lean or very lean working out all the time, and you switch "a good fat" with a "bad fat"... I don't think anything will happen.

I heard from a guy (he is a bullshitter tho, he's like 6x fatter than me, 2-3x dumber, but a health nut), "import all butter, yogurt, etc", don't have canadian stuff.... butter etc.

ALTHOUGH Alberta Beef (when grassfed) is highly sought after, only next to like KOBE Beef (JAPAN), it's high up there. That's beef though and not "cow products", and it's high grade beef (not like just any part of the cow or whatever).

-BUt yeah heart attacks and strokes and clogged arteries are bad, so I'll cut all PUFA's. Barely eat them, mostly I always use olive oil, but even the BEST olive oil may be bad acc to some.

ok so what's your point? you ate PUFA and you are faster than everyone? i dont get what you are saying. you asked what fat is good and what is bad. PUFA is bad and saturated fat is good. PUFA blocks thyroid so it decreases hormones, saturated fat is like cholesterol, it's fuel that will burn into hormones.

you can eat anything that is "bad" and it's not going to turn you into a turtle, moreso overtime, the effects start to be seen as time passes.

 

[MNK99]

--That's my point, it's like 1% of things, diet and exercise with 80 vs 90 vs 100% clean is only a difference at a certain point.
I lost like 70-80lb in like 9mo like half my life ago, I eat well. BUT* not 100% of the time. As much as I can.

-JUST being anti PUFA and doing jackshit... won't do anything for anyone. JUST like... subbing "carbs" from bad sources to "good"... won't prevent diabetes.

Also, read some studies, fit people can drop dead from heart attacks too.

The point is: I highly doubt 80% vs 100% good fats everyday... or no fats everyday... or some vs little... outside of some hormonal affects, will make or break.
I ate clean dude since before adulthood. Obviously there are ppl faster than me... I meant for randoms outside... I walked, talked, ran faster than near all despite lung pain from asthma (bc I'm not weak).... so yeah... all the super geniuses that got something to say, have you ever recovered from anything severe? Didn't think so.
-Not bragging, life's been harsh.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I think MUFA is fine too. Studies showed there is compound in coconut oil and olive oil (MUFA) that helps absorb cholesterol by testes. Resulting in higher hormonal output.

I eat 2 tablespoons (uncooked) of extra virgin olive oil everyday.

High carbohydrate diet is also higher hormonal output if you look at studies. Lower cortisol, higher testosterone. Especially if you workout.

PUFA (uncooked) have shown to increase muscle and lower fat if you eat medium-high PUFA diet.

I do not think it is clear cut. Although I am avoiding PUFA for now.