Testosterone decreases brain 5AR1 and lowers allopregnenolone.

MCurtone

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your experiences is exactly similar to mine. Libido and sex drive etc is all pretty fine its mental stuff that is still remaining. Poor response to stress, some brain fog (at times worse than others etc.) and sleep, but sleep has improved much better over time since crash.

And I get the same exact response as to steroids. Libido goes up crazy and physical effects are there but mental sides increase way worse. The major thing that I tried that completely fixed mental sides temporarily (as in felt normal again) was RU486 but didnt last once stopping it. It is def cortisol related in the brain side for sure at least in my experience

low carb diet and fasting also helped with mental sides

Wow, you are literally in the same boat as me. Right after the crash my sleep was fucked and wrecked. Now in the last 1 year it's recovered. It's not 100% but I am not longer chronically fatigued and thinking "I got no sleep". So, I know my sleep has improved decently.

I recovered the most when I did a zero-carb diet too. I was doing a raw carnivore diet, all raw meat and raw animal products. Extreme I know, but it worked. I still do it. Perhaps the low carb diet works because it increases stress hormones like cortisol, required to create some glucose via gluconeogensis. At the same time, it's very good for healing in general and lowering inflammation...

Fasting helps. Lowering inflammation helps. Limiting and restricting certain foods definitely help. If you are able to acquire GHB, I would urge you to try it, a dose high enough to induce deep sleep. Helen believes it helps with our cortisol, or lackthereof.

As far as brain fog, that's my main concern. I can get rid of, or trigger brain fog simply from diet. If I go pure animal products, like flesh only, within 3-7 days I am very normal and have a great mood, clarity, control of emotions and general positivity. Adding dairy makes me off balance and very irritable/foggy. However ever since working on digestive health, I can tolerate dairy more, but not 100%.

Also when I came off finasteride, I was hyper sexual, but was also taking creatine too. I was horny and stressed. Tons of fog and anxiety, but uncontrollable sexual desire.

What else do you know about people like us @Boris , what exact symptoms do you have left? What have you done to recover? We should stay in touch.
 

hairsuit

Well-Known Member
Messages
460
your experiences is exactly similar to mine. Libido and sex drive etc is all pretty fine its mental stuff that is still remaining. Poor response to stress, some brain fog (at times worse than others etc.) and sleep, but sleep has improved much better over time since crash.

And I get the same exact response as to steroids. Libido goes up crazy and physical effects are there but mental sides increase way worse. The major thing that I tried that completely fixed mental sides temporarily (as in felt normal again) was RU486 but didnt last once stopping it. It is def cortisol related in the brain side for sure at least in my experience

low card diet and fasting also helped with mental sides
@Boris did you have sexual sides when this all started? I do find it interesting that there are those that have mostly sexual sides, and others mostly mental..... we seem to all start with a mix of both, but, for me, the mental went away and I am left not being able to beat the sexual. Others get sexual back and can’t beat mental. Has to be something to that.
 

Helen

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Wow, you are literally in the same boat as me. Right after the crash my sleep was fucked and wrecked. Now in the last 1 year it's recovered. It's not 100% but I am not longer chronically fatigued and thinking "I got no sleep". So, I know my sleep has improved decently.

I recovered the most when I did a zero-carb diet too. I was doing a raw carnivore diet, all raw meat and raw animal products. Extreme I know, but it worked. I still do it. Perhaps the low carb diet works because it increases stress hormones like cortisol, required to create some glucose via gluconeogensis. At the same time, it's very good for healing in general and lowering inflammation...

Fasting helps. Lowering inflammation helps. Limiting and restricting certain foods definitely help. If you are able to acquire GHB, I would urge you to try it, a dose high enough to induce deep sleep. Helen believes it helps with our cortisol, or lackthereof.

As far as brain fog, that's my main concern. I can get rid of, or trigger brain fog simply from diet. If I go pure animal products, like flesh only, within 3-7 days I am very normal and have a great mood, clarity, control of emotions and general positivity. Adding dairy makes me off balance and very irritable/foggy. However ever since working on digestive health, I can tolerate dairy more, but not 100%.

Also when I came off finasteride, I was hyper sexual, but was also taking creatine too. I was horny and stressed. Tons of fog and anxiety, but uncontrollable sexual desire.

What else do you know about people like us @Boris , what exact symptoms do you have left? What have you done to recover? We should stay in touch.


baclofen does exactly the same as GHB.
 

Helen

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5,415
your experiences is exactly similar to mine. Libido and sex drive etc is all pretty fine its mental stuff that is still remaining. Poor response to stress, some brain fog (at times worse than others etc.) and sleep, but sleep has improved much better over time since crash.

And I get the same exact response as to steroids. Libido goes up crazy and physical effects are there but mental sides increase way worse. The major thing that I tried that completely fixed mental sides temporarily (as in felt normal again) was RU486 but didnt last once stopping it. It is def cortisol related in the brain side for sure at least in my experience

low card diet and fasting also helped with mental sides


it would be good if someone with high cortisol ( fast oxidiser)) tested CBG- transcortin.

estrogen increases CBG . CBG binds cortisol.

We see fast oxidizers react to estrogen positively, right?


Lets say if GR receptor is overexpressed, then you get low ACTH with high or normal cortisol levels in blood may be and high CBG binding i?. since cortisol is not being uptaken anywhere.

and then pregnenolone and progesterone are not releases by ACTH. and basically there is no progesterone to even make allopregnenolone in the brain.

@MCurtone


@Boris I knew you felt cured while on RU, so it is interesting blocking which receptor did that. PR, ER, GR or AR or may be both AR and GR))

So it is hard to say so far cortisol receptor is working or not.



since @jinstewart did not feel cured at all while on RU and felt better actually off RU.
 
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Helen

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@MCurtone Also lets now forget. 5α-Reductase - Wikipedia

you see

this conversion is done by 5AR. and now we have this. Changes in 5 alpha- and 5 beta-reductase pathways of aldosterone metabolism by dietary sodium | J Gorsline | Request PDF


So when the body wants to retain sodium , it increases aldo into 5 alpha metabolites.

If Fin cuts 5 alpha reductase. there is a possibility that aldosterone receptors got overexpressed.

and the body raises progesterone to try to retain potassium and binds cortisol with CBG.


Another possibiilty for fast oxidizers. @Boris
 

Helen

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@Boris we need to figure out blocking which receptor gave you recovery while on RU.

Did you try that progesterone keto thing. that brix is trying?
 

jinstewart

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189
@jinstewart did not feel cured at all while on RU and felt better actually off RU.

Just to proper summarise, felt a fair bit better on it mentally, not sexually really any improvement. After stopping improved even a touch further maybe but there are ups and downs a little now.

You're totally right in saying I did not feel "cured" though at any point, which I believe it did to some folks. No doubt though I made some significant progress, but it was only 5 days. My gut feeling on it was it was too short and too little, but ofc it's still early days.
 

Helen

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5[alpha]-reductase is a regulator of glucocorticoid action and metabolic phenotype in human liver | SFEBES2014 @Helen according to this 5ar inactivates cortisol, so any 5ar inhibitors would increase cortisol and then coupled up with a stressful event while on fin for eg would downregulate GR receptors ? And is why some crash on fin


I agree , this is what @Boris and I were wondering from the start of this forum as we started this forum with upregulated downregulated Gr receptor , etc

question is. for instance, if you take aldostereone. as I posted in the link above, aldosterone converts into its metabolites, with 5AR.

and that retains more sodium and actually sodium in diet affects this conversion, less sodium you eat, more 5AR you get.


Also we saw studies where they claimed that androgen deprivation caused GR overxpression.


So we are trying to explore both of these routes.
 

RebelWithACause

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2,647
I agree , this is what @Boris and I were wondering from the start of this forum as we started this forum with upregulated downregulated Gr receptor , etc

question is. for instance, if you take aldostereone. as I posted in the link above, aldosterone converts into its metabolites, with 5AR.

and that retains more sodium and actually sodium in diet affects this conversion, less sodium you eat, more 5AR you get.


Also we saw studies where they claimed that androgen deprivation caused GR overxpression.


So we are trying to explore both of these routes.

I think TEI is pushing 5AR for me now. They advise low salt intake and recommending iron (which is part of the 5AR).
 

Helen

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5[alpha]-reductase is a regulator of glucocorticoid action and metabolic phenotype in human liver | SFEBES2014 @Helen according to this 5ar inactivates cortisol, so any 5ar inhibitors would increase cortisol and then coupled up with a stressful event while on fin for eg would downregulate GR receptors ? And is why some crash on fin



Notice this study Dual-5α-Reductase Inhibition Promotes Hepatic Lipid Accumulation in Man

you see in this study , they say that 5AR inhibitor increases DNL as oppose to that other study. which you posted, which was done in vitro, on some cells and not the actual body.

So it causes fatty liver.
 
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Ocguy

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417
@Ocguy what was your dosage and timeframe? Every try HMG or triptorelin ?

Its been awhile, but I think 250ml. Every 2nd or 3rd day.. I could feel it working.. my balls would swell up sometimes almost immediately.. but I still had very little desire despite a truckload of semen in my testies.. it was the strangest feeling..

Yea, hmg.. but the dose is much smaller.. I think 1 vial is a dose if I'm not mistaken, I tried that too.. just 1 or 2 vials nothing different

Triptorelin, yea my nurse gave me a shot of it when he would come over and do an ozone treatment.. that seemed to perk me up.. been meaning to cycle .. just need to find a good supplier reseatch it and give it a go.. have u been doing the Triptorelin?
 

Ocguy

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417
This is certainly a factor. The problem is it's so hard to test neurosteroids on live subjects. You're playing in the dark. This is what a lot of people from raypeat forums are talking about.

For myself, I have a libido, dick works fine, although my sex drive is not as high as it used to be, it could simply be because I've been with the same person for 3 years and its less exciting. When I am around other girls I can become very aroused.

My issues are seemingly cognitive, brain fog, energy issues, etc. I found overall that reducing inflammation helped a lot. Something regarding inflammation plays a role on neurosteroids and brain 5ar.

Taking 5a-dhp helped me quite a bit, but especially GHB. I'm not 100%, but I megadosed it to finally get good sleep and my stress response has been magnitudes better ever since. GHB is also known to increase allo and progesterone by 3-5 fold. Study below.

GABA(B) receptor-mediated increase of neurosteroids by gamma-hydroxybutyric acid. - PubMed - NCBI

For some reason 5ar in the brain is messed up from taking finasteride. I also did TRT and even took things like Dianabol. My sex drive was CRAZY high but my cognitive health was TERRIBLE. Zero focus, brain fog, no ability to think clear. Seems to be that the higher blood T and DHT is, the worse the neurosteroids are.

Things that help with brain 5ar are:

Caffeine
Glycine
GHB (potentially)
Anything that acts on the GABA A receptors really...

Currently my routine involves clearing the gut, cleaning the liver and nutrient density from raw animal products.

5a-dhp once in a while
GHB to sleep once in a while
Coffee enemas
MMS/ Chlorine Dioxide
Activated Charcoal
Raw Milk & Colostrum
Liver, etc.

I've made big improvments

Great..
Where are u getting the ghb btw? It's been on my list
 

joekool

Moderator
Messages
551
Its been awhile, but I think 250ml. Every 2nd or 3rd day.. I could feel it working.. my balls would swell up sometimes almost immediately.. but I still had very little desire despite a truckload of semen in my testies.. it was the strangest feeling..

Yea, hmg.. but the dose is much smaller.. I think 1 vial is a dose if I'm not mistaken, I tried that too.. just 1 or 2 vials nothing different

Triptorelin, yea my nurse gave me a shot of it when he would come over and do an ozone treatment.. that seemed to perk me up.. been meaning to cycle .. just need to find a good supplier reseatch it and give it a go.. have u been doing the Triptorelin?

No I haven't tried triptorelin yet and it isn't meant to be cycled, you should do it once and that's it, unless you cycle back on testosterone injections and shut down, even then... should be minimum of 6 months between tripto shots... I bought it but wanted to try hcg again instead ...

tripto can cause castration issues at several milligrams which isn't what we're talking here... we're taking 100mcg which would mean 10 of those shots to be 1mg which is then entering into the trouble zone...

you can do half of 100mcg and save the other half... but tripto stimulates both FSH and LH whereas HCG only does LH (it's an analogue of it)...
 

Ocguy

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Messages
417
No I haven't tried triptorelin yet and it isn't meant to be cycled, you should do it once and that's it, unless you cycle back on testosterone injections and shut down, even then... should be minimum of 6 months between tripto shots... I bought it but wanted to try hcg again instead ...

tripto can cause castration issues at several milligrams which isn't what we're talking here... we're taking 100mcg which would mean 10 of those shots to be 1mg which is then entering into the trouble zone...

you can do half of 100mcg and save the other half... but tripto stimulates both FSH and LH whereas HCG only does LH (it's an analogue of it)...

Yea, I would be careful with that one.. I checked the old bottles, it was ipamorelin and ghrp my nurse gave me.. the ipamorelin definitely gave me a boost. Was meaning to experiment with that
 

Helen

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Yea, I would be careful with that one.. I checked the old bottles, it was ipamorelin and ghrp my nurse gave me.. the ipamorelin definitely gave me a boost. Was meaning to experiment with that

People took tripto daily for weeks on propeciahelp.