Ulcerative Colitis / IBD

[Canari]

40 capsule a day when I can stand only one with each meal and I am careful as my stomach is sensitive to acids! And my digestion is not the best! I have to take betaine hcl at the beginning of meal, not at the end, and maybe some people have a too sensitive stomach? Why hcl better than capsules?

With no starch and a lot of raw food including raw sea food, I feel better and can eat less with more energy. I think cooking damages proteins more than anything else!

I had dermographism in childhood only....

 

[Helen]

I usually gave those people diluted HCL, right on top of the food. About 7grams a pop. After food. diluted in water.

Capsules did not do anything at all. But caused even more irritation in the small intestine

Doesn't that burn your throat?

It was dilluted in water and given by portions, at around 2-3 PH, like lemon juice

 

[Helen]

Most people who are already sick, they have low potassium. that is why in zinc finger protocol. HCL used just a little bit, instead you use electrolyte with chlorides.

Since if you just bombard your body with HCL you will go into acidosis and your potassium in the cell will go even lower decreasing the speed of the metabolism

 

[HerrFisch]

Why "fucked"? Wouldnt you just be left with low stomach acid and high histamine again?

[Is histidine itself a HDC inhibitor? http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00214a009?journalCode=jmcmar]

Now that is interesting, and it would make sense as that's a very simple negative feedback mechanism for regulating HDC. If that is the case, supping histidine should be very safe.

Im not sure if it really is. Cant find any proof. And this link only says methyl-histidine and methyl- ester histidine
The ability of probiotic L. reuteri to suppress colitis depends on the presence of a bacterial histidine decarboxylase gene

L-histidine decarboxylase decreases its own transcription through downregulation of ERK activity.

Regulation of hdc expression and HDC activity by enological factors in lactic acid bacteria.

 

[Helen]

[mention]mattyb[/mention]

I forgot to mention to you , histidines one of the most important function.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_anhydrase LOL

So metabolism will never be able to go up without it.

And of course no histidine and no SODS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superoxide_dismutase

A lot of free copper and zinc flying around probably causing alzheimer's and ton of free radicals.

 

[HerrFisch]

Because of my name HerrFisch , here is one article about histidine and copper toxicity in fish haha

Our results indicated that histidine deficiency significantly increases MDA and PC content, decreases SOD1 and GPx activities and GSH content, and also significantly down-regulates the claudin-c, claudin-3, claudin-15, occludin, ZO-1, IL-10, TGF-β, IκB, TOR, SOD1, GPx, Nrf2 mRNA levels and up-regulates the IL-8, TNF-α, NF-κB and Keap1 mRNA levels, whereas optimal histidine pre-supplementation completely restored these changes in the intestine of fish. These results indicate that histidine can prevent Cu exposure-induced changes in tight junction proteins, cytokines and the antioxidant defence system in the intestine of fish. Histidine-prevented Cu toxicity in fish might be partially related to the chelation of Cu. Our previous study observed that chelating Cu by myo-inositol could reduce the toxic effect of Cu at the intestine/enterocytes in Jian carp .

but..

Interestingly, after Cu exposure, the excess histidine pre-supplementation groups demonstrated decreased GSH content and SOD1 and GPx activities compared with the optimal pre-supplementation groups. One potential explanation is the production of ROS by excessive histidine. Histamine, the metabolite of histidine, is abundantly produced by excess histidine, resulting in increased ROS production in breast cancer cells [82]. ROS can also decrease the SOD1 and GPx activities and the GSH content in carp erythrocytes [22]. Excessive histidine pre-supplementation demonstrated harmful effects on preventing Cu toxicity in the intestine of fish. Thus, we must determine the precise histidine requirement to prevent Cu toxicity in young grass carp.

So again balance.

 

[Helen]

That is why fasting is so good, histidine from carnosine comes out. and cleans every thing up all the metals. since if you are lacking histidine you will have a lot of metals in the free form.

There is a possibility that SoDs, and GSH fell just because histidine used up all the zinc there was and there was very little zinc left in copper toxicity. So SODs went down along with GSH

I guess this is why carnosine is used for anti aging and same as C60 which is metal binder shungit. Basically low grade chelation.

 

[TubZy]

I usually gave those people diluted HCL, right on top of the food. About 7grams a pop. After food. diluted in water.

Capsules did not do anything at all. But caused even more irritation in the small intestine

Doesn't that burn your throat?

It was dilluted in water and given by portions, at around 2-3 PH, like lemon juice

I assume you would need a lot less HCL given it is pure powder and not in a capsule right?

 

[Helen]

Doesn't that burn your throat?

It was dilluted in water and given by portions, at around 2-3 PH, like lemon juice

I assume you would need a lot less HCL given it is pure powder and not in a capsule right?

I thought you using HCL form of it. For food yes, very little if you are using electrolytes.

 

[TubZy]

It was dilluted in water and given by portions, at around 2-3 PH, like lemon juice

I assume you would need a lot less HCL given it is pure powder and not in a capsule right?

I thought you using HCL form of it. For food yes, very little if you are using electrolytes.

Yeah I am however, serine, aspartic acid, zinc, copper etc not HCL form. I was always told capsules thats why because you will destroy your throat but I guess if you dilute it enough, should be fine.

 

[HerrFisch]

I would be scared for my teeth.

 

[Helen]

I assume you would need a lot less HCL given it is pure powder and not in a capsule right?

I thought you using HCL form of it. For food yes, very little if you are using electrolytes.

Yeah I am however, serine, aspartic acid, zinc, copper etc not HCL form. I was always told capsules thats why because you will destroy your throat but I guess if you dilute it enough, should be fine.

Guys you have to drink this thru a straw. That is a given. You will ruin your teeth.

 

[Raincoast]

Is Betaine hcl powder not ok?
Im using PureBulk, they are third party tested, not usp.
I've been using 000 capsules from iherb. 6 capsules is about 10 grams. Only taking 1 cap after my only big meal of the day now is enough. That little melts through a stomach full of food. Very noticable on the exit.


So, to clarify, the electrolytes on an empty stomach with a little hcl?

3 Aminos in isolation at first. Then always taken on empty stomach thereafter?

Histadine preferered to carnosine for taurine sparing.
Can resveratrol still be used to help with copper chelation through this protocol?

 

[Aleksandr]

With histidine as its own inhibitor in a negative feedback, we want normal histidine levels. Is high histidine even possible with high histamine?
Wouldnt that tell us with histamine being used in inflammation, that if histidine is missing, HDC is high to make sure histamine is getting produced? But with missing histidine and ongoing inflammation(ongoing need for histamine), no histidine is left for other use. (wound healing & h2o2 "detox", Glutathione etc)

And this h2o2 leaves the body with lowered SCFA producers esp. butyrate (gut microbiome in general) and therefore low mito fusion and increased mitochondria fission :.: vicious cycle.

SO this reaction that h2o2 increases HDC is probably just inflammation?
And inflammation has a increasing demand for oxygen and nutrients. Especially chronic inflammation.

[And the high lactate initiates angiogenesis (release of factors to bring new blood supply)]

[medication like Sulfasalazine lowers ROS but kicks out folate zinc.]

Without folic acid, the body wont be able to produce methionine. Without methionine no Glutathione and no taurine and cysteine.
Without B12 / deficiency will lead to anemia and high homocystein levels. (As a result of methionine systhase inhibition) -> low oxygen transport. + b12 is needed for hemoglobin (succinyl CoA).

You got it. No histidine for some reason, and you are missing everything. That is why I outlined the zinc finger protocol. Where you take everything to support this.

No histidine- no folate, no b12, no zinc, no gluthathione, no Metallothionein, no insulin, no geparin and thick blood, no SODs, no calcium.

But I guess you can have high histidine and high histamine as in histidinemia.


But most sick people have low histamines. And very high receptors, thus reacting to histamines in foods. And some of them do better actually by increasing histamines, with histidine ,zinc and b6. LIke that woman practitioner who puts all her clients on histidine zinc b6 for IBS. They have very slow metabolism with zero stomach acid. the internet puts those people ON methylation saying or your methylation is impaired that is why you are not producing glutathione.

The real problem is with serine, aspartic acid and histidine and lack of stomach acid.

Same with diabetes. I cured 2 people from diabetes just giving them diluted HCL. They were all missing histidine. and zinc. That is what insulin is made from.

What do you mean by thick blood?

What causes it - not enough oxygen? Mine often feels very sludgy. If you think zinc finger protocol will help i might jump on it.

 

[Nighteyes]

How about using green tea for inhibiting HCD along with the calorie restriction/b6 restriction? Green tea contains alot of EGCG https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17227057

Maybe polyphenols in general? EGCG is also available as a supplement - any experiences with using this?

 

[HerrFisch]

@Nighteyes
Good find, could probably work.
But Im still not sure if its good to inhibit HDC.

Sure if you restrict calories and lower ROS and metabolism with that, you probably have less inflammation left and there will be no need for histamine. So HDC will get low and there is histidine for tissue repair. And without ROS your SCFA can increase and things can heal.

But with still high ROS levels its probably not good to inhibit HDC in general.
Articles about H2r and H1r antagonists show that histamine can be good and bad for UC.
Maybe without caloric restriction it would actually be worth a try to increase histidine for some time.

But otherwise with small HDC inhibition, you will have some histidine left over for ROS too.

I dont know. Maybe we are missing something.
@mattyb @gbolduev ?

Maybe a stupid thing. But it helps to visualize for me.:

ROS+ = HDC+ (need for histamine)
Histidine+ = ROS- (histidine lowers H2o2) ?
Histidine- = HDC+ (high histamine needs)
ROS- = HDC- (less ROS less inflamation less histamine needs)
Histidine- = ROS+ (less histidine more ROS)

Histidine+ = ROS - = HDC-

-> ROS+ = HDC+ = Histidine-

Maybe histidine is the limiting factor for SOD CAT GPx and thats why in chronic inflammation, with ongoing need for histamine, those ROS scavengers get low?

 

[Helen]

HerrFisch,

I think you missed my posts. histidine is part of SOD, Part of catalase.

 

[Helen]

What do you mean by thick blood?

What causes it - not enough oxygen? Mine often feels very sludgy. If you think zinc finger protocol will help i might jump on it.

Histidine is part of heparin.

 

[HerrFisch]

HerrFisch,

I think you missed my posts. histidine is part of SOD, Part of catalase.

There is a possibility that SoDs, and GSH fell just because histidine used up all the zinc there was and there was very little zinc left in copper toxicity. So SODs went down along with GSH

Oh yeah ^^, but what I wrote basically sums up what you said, together with Mitochondrial fission, histamine and inflammation in UC right?

Anyone here with gray hair? Would be interesting to see if histidine would help.

Cortisol inhibits HDC too.

 

[mattyb]

Honestly this is getting so over-complicated. We know the solution already - fast. It is the only protocol that absolutely will check every box. Then it is all about controlling things with a proper refeed after (slowly upregulate gastric acid in tandem with protein consumption). Even a fasting protocol like ADF or 16/8 IF might help - but I would bet money a ~14 day Breuss like Orion has done with Na/K/Mg + Cl would be more effective.