Vinegar

[Helen]

Apple cider vinegar I don't like. ACV has acetaldehyde. I did my fasts to get rid of Acetaldehyde in the first place. Plus I never consume ACV since it is very high in lead. and I don't like that either. Only malic acid , clean organic malic acid.

 

[mattyb]

I am not advocating chronic consumption of ACV. A few weeks of 1/2 tsp per day mixed into salads won't be causing anyone any issues with acetylaldehyde. We only want it because it can provide some H+ temporarily as substrate for gastric acid. I don't like ACV long term either, but in small amounts here and there it is probably safe.

 

[Helen]

It has lead, very high lead. Even ARL advices against usage of ACV for that reason. Malic acid should be used instead.

Endotoxin which everyone is talking about is acetaldehyde. The yeast that you were talkinga bout , candida produces tons of ethanol which then gets stuck in acetaldehyde stage. Acetaldehyde causes histamine release since it shares the pathway with it. that is why I don't like to give any acetic acid also. Since it will stop acetaldehyde to acetic acid conversion.

To convert ethanol you need zinc, cysteine, NAD and histidine. To get rid of acetaldehyde, you need ALDH, and AO enzyme. which is NAD , cysteine, histidine, b2 and molybdenum

You see again we have zinc finger here and MT structure .

This is why if someone lets say has UC and produces tons of acetaldehyde. then he should stay away from it.

By the way acetaldehyde air levels in major cities are 20 times higher than norm. So this is the stimulation of your ROS that you were taking about. I have done a lot of research on it.

I think this is the culpit of major problems these days.


And this is the reason of constant unexplained inflammation in the body.

 

[mattyb]

It has lead, very high lead. Even ARL advices against usage of ACV for that reason. Malic acid should be used instead.

ACV is lower in lead than all other vinegars. Levels are quite low. They also comment that most lead is from issues with storage, so aged vinegars should be avoided.

http://www.americanlaboratory.com/9...n-Vinegar-Determination-and-Possible-Sources/

I have no problems with malic acid though. ACV is just more accessible for most people.

 

[Helen]

i tested 4 of ACV bottles , all high in lead not low. I had lead toxicity , remember. I was very careful with what I was taking. You can get lucky and get low lead ACV. But acetaldehyde and acetic acid component of it to me NO GOOD.

This is the point what you are trying to fix. you are trying to lower acetaldehyde. and low acetylcholine activation. Thus no alcohol, no vinegars. Only kreb cycle end product could work. Even if you go with citric, I would be careful

 

[mattyb]

Okay, that is great. But I will trust the study I posted over you. No offense intended, but their data and methods are public.

Also this study I found has acetaldehyde concentrations in vinegar quite low. I can't speak for ACV since they didn't test it, but acetaldehyde levels were less than many foods at 2.6 mg/kg. If we want to avoid acetaldehyde there are more foods that merit much more consideration for avoidance.

Quantitative Determination of Acetaldehyde in Foods Using Automated Digestion with Simulated Gastric Fluid Followed by Headspace Gas Chromatography

 

[Helen]

Okay, that is great. But I will trust the study I posted over you. No offense intended, but their data and methods are public.

Also this study I found has acetaldehyde concentrations in vinegar quite low. I can't speak for ACV since they didn't test it, but acetaldehyde levels were less than many foods at 2.6 mg/kg. If we want to avoid acetaldehyde there are more foods that merit much more consideration for avoidance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3124883/

Ok, bud, if you think that acetaldehyde levels are low in ACV, then you dont know chemistry

ACV is the exact thing I would never use, EVER. it has acetaldehyde and acetic acid together which stops the break down of acetaldehyde. I have no idea why you don't get it, no offense.

Public studies, please. they studied finasteride and approved it for general use. how did it work out.

If someone tudied vinegars for lead. That means it is there. I hope you understand that.

 

[Canari]

i tested 4 of ACV bottles , all high in lead not low. I had lead toxicity , remember. I was very careful with what I was taking. You can get lucky and get low lead ACV. But acetaldehyde and acetic acid component of it to me NO GOOD.

Did you test organic ACV?
I cannot stand very much alcohol in my stomach, probably from the poisoning, but ACV is making my stomach ache better! I made a topic for it. I also went out of the fast with a very high intake of ACV, 4 oz a day.

ACV is the exact thing I would never use, EVER. it has acetaldehyde and acetic acid together which stops the break down of acetaldehyde. I have no idea why you don't get it, no offense.

Clinical proof: many people use it with good results!

 

[Helen]

I don't like ACV period. or any other vinegar. I think it kills the fast. That is my opinion, and I outlined why. You never want to take anything with acetaldehyde and acetic acid together. Since this is where 90% have their problem. IN acetaldehyde utilization.

 

[mattyb]

I know the chemistry. It is basic. Acetaldehyde is the precusor to acetic acid when making vinegar. But if the reaction is done properly then the bulk of that is converted to acetic acid. Then that is diluted with water even further to 5%. And from the study I linked, those reactions look like they are done properly. What's so crazy about that? Companies want to maximize yields and dilution because it allows them to sell more product with less supply. My old chemistry teacher worked in the chemical industry, they had yield quotas and they would receive bonuses when yields were high.

It's fine if you disagree. I don't think 1/2 tsp of ACV per day for a few weeks will harm anyone though. I think people's energy is better spent elsewhere.

 

[Canari]

I don't like ACV period. or any other vinegar. I think it kills the fast. That is my opinion, and I outlined why. You never want to take anything with acetaldehyde and acetic acid together. Since this is where 90% have the their problem. IN acetaldehyde utilization.

In therory I thought about it too, and I think I posted about it as I remember looking at acetaldehyde, because i thought this could be my life long problem, from being poisonned in-utero by ethanol!

I went good after the fast until I went down in vinegar and up in fruits....

I did 4oz ACV only 1 week, as I read about it as an option before doing the liver flush (that I still have not done...)

 

[Canari]

i tested 4 of ACV bottles , all high in lead not low.

Any organic one?

 

[Helen]

If you are not producing acetic acid in the body, you will feel more energy from acetic acid. This does not mean that it is doing you any good, since acetaldehyde is the limiting problem. Exactly, you took away acetic acid and increased acetaldehyde with fruits even more.

 

[Helen]

Any organic one?

I tested bottles over here in Cyprus, may be different from those that you have in the US

 

[Canari]

If you are not producing acetic acid in the body, you will feel more energy from acetic acid. This does not mean that it is doing you any good, since acetaldehyde is the limiting problem. Exactly, you took away acetic acid and increased acetaldehyde with fruits even more.

I waited quite long after the fast before having any fruit at all, and I was having no starch at all. i am bad now due to my 1st intent to eat some starch....
I do not understand how I get energy form acetic acid! 1) I was doing it for the malic acid first, and it got rid of my gall bladder pain. Then 2) I want to increase acid.

I have always solved any stomach burn with ACV, and it works. Why?

 

[Canari]

I tested bottles over here in Cyprus, may be different from those that you have in the US

I am in a Spanish island with german health food stores, so I have organic Voelkel cider vinegar. Unfiltered and unpasteurize.

I would be happy to use less, I can hardly stand even lemon, I like bitter and hate acid taste! I have never even liked pickles!

I was also tested as "yeast bad for me", with a Vega tester.

 

[Helen]

I waited quite long after the fast before having any fruit at all, and I was having no starch at all. i am bad now due to my 1st intent to eat some starch....
I do not understand how I get energy form acetic acid! 1) I was doing it for the malic acid first, and it got rid of my gall bladder pain. Then 2) I want to increase acid.

I have always solved any stomach burn with ACV, and it works. Why?

Acetic acid is needed to make coenzyme A, along with cysteine and vitamin b5. then some of it goes to acetylcholine which we dont want. and some goes into the krebs cycle. This is why malic acid helps.

 

[Helen]

I know the chemistry. It is basic. Acetaldehyde is the precusor to acetic acid when making vinegar. But if the reaction is done properly then the bulk of that is converted to acetic acid. Then that is diluted with water even further to 5%. And from the study I linked, those reactions look like they are done properly. What's so crazy about that? Companies want to maximize yields and dilution because it allows them to sell more product with less supply. My old chemistry teacher worked in the chemical industry, they had yield quotas and they would receive bonuses when yields were high.

It's fine if you disagree. I don't think 1/2 tsp of ACV per day for a few weeks will harm anyone though. I think people's energy is better spent elsewhere.

This is ACV we are talking about, it continues to ferment with chunks of sugar in it. Dude. LOL

 

[Canari]

If you are not producing acetic acid in the body, you will feel more energy from acetic acid. This does not mean that it is doing you any good, since acetaldehyde is the limiting problem. Exactly, you took away acetic acid and increased acetaldehyde with fruits even more.

Acetic acid is needed to make coenzyme A, along with cysteine and vitamin b5. then some of it goes to acetylcholine which we dont want. and some goes into the krebs cycle. This is why malic acid helps.

I do not understand all, especially how what you said about acetic acid relates to malic acid, and what malic acid helps.

I have quoted all about ACV in a specific topic - as this is not very pfs....
https://hackstasis.com/threads/which-acids-are-good-for-stomach-how-to-use-acids-like-hcl.340/

@gbolduev @mattyb if you can precise your thoughts about which acids are good for what?

 

[mattyb]

This is ACV we are talking about, it continues to ferment with chunks of sugar in it. Dude. LOL

The one study I've been able to find on it showed distilled and cider vinegar having the same acetylaldehyde content. Which would make sense, because the fermentation is to acetic acid ultimately, acetalaldehyde is just the intermediary. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf60180a038

Either way, 1/2 tsp at 2-3 mg/kg doesn't seem like much to me. This is ridiculously nitpicky to debate about honestly. 1/2 tsp will not make or break a person.