WARNING( STOP RANDOMLY USING RU< CABERGOLINES< DHT CYRPO or any end metabolism products like l DOPA SSRI, MAOI etc) , ONLY WITH TESTS

[Helen]

What level should prolactin be at normally

it changes with the metabolism. Hormones can be looked at as levels. they should always be looked at as ratios.

Prolactin to progesterone ratio. shows you calcium potassium balance.

If progesterone is raised, prolactin should be zero. If prolactin and progesterone raised. Means progesterone or prolactin is compensating the other

Same as cortisol and progesterone, When progesterone is high , cortisol should be low. IF both high, then one is compensating the other. and it is a problematic place in the metabolism.


This way you can read metabolism under any stress. and this is why it is always important if you look at blood, to look at the hormonal shapshot of all hormones at the same time.

meaning you cant test DHT today and cortisol tomorrow. As an example

 

[HerrFisch]

If progesterone is raised, prolactin should be zero. If prolactin and progesterone raised. Means progesterone or prolactin is compensating the other

I had high prog and prolactin, that does mean that one isn’t high enough right? Like progesterone for example

 

[Helen]

I had high prog and prolactin, that does mean that one isn’t high enough right? Like progesterone for example

means that one is compensating another. More likely progesterone is compensating prolactin,

and prolactin is raised since copper toxicity and this retains calcium when it should not.

As you get rid of copper toxicity , prolactin , will fall, this will stop calcium retention this will speed up thyroid action, and then this will lower need for progesterone and progesterone will convert into cortisol. providing more sugar for your metabolism.

 

[Niles]

it is a quick fix. I'm at 110% within a month

Will you post a summary of your recovery soon? Do you think you've come away with a better understanding of PFS state after having recovered from a bad crash yourself? I'd imagine you're hesitant to since a bunch of folks would just try to emulate your recovery without taking into account individual body chemistry, unless you include a million disclaimers or thorough description of different cases.

 

[Minime]

So I am the idiot with Hoshimoto’s who decided on a whim to try RU. I’m not proud of what I did, especially now after reading this thread.

I have been in a really bad place for the last several weeks since starting ARL. ARL has shrunken my genitals to pre-pubescent levels and I think about suicide constantly. One morning I just woke up and said fuck it I’m going to try something different today. I haven’t read any bad cases of RU trials and I have read a number of comments stating it is safe. So I said fuck it and tried it. 3 days of 5-10 mg each day.

My 10 year battle with PFS has just resulted in worsening symptoms to the point where I have a deep feeling of desperation. That’s why I took RU. Because I’m in a desperate “I’ll try anything just to see if something works” situation. Again, I’m not proud of my decision and obviously I regret it since Helen is implying I probably fucked myself big time.

I felt a little better those 3 days while on RU. Lower anxiety. I’ve been off for a week now and shedding hair considerably. Helen suggested I either wait until my progesterone comes back online or use progesterone. I decided to use progesterone. Not sure if it is helping yet. I also purchased l-dopa but have not used it.

So here’s my questions @Helen
Can you walk me through why Hoshimoto’s makes my situation so much worse than someone who doesn’t have Hoshimoto’s? I simply do not yet understand the biology/mechanisms behind it...hoping you can explain it to me.
How would RU impact me differently because of Hoshimoto’s?
How long should I use progesterone cream? I am using a dime sized amount 2x daily at the moment.
What now? Should I go get all my labs and hormones retested to see what RU did to me, or will that not even matter at this point and I’m just fucked?

 

[health]

@Minime I'm not Helen obviously, but wouldn't you say that testing your progesterone blood levels would be a good idea?

As for panic, feeling helpless, misunderstood and all that - I feel you man. Keep going. We have over 50 years to live. It may seem that it's permanent, but what do we know unless we try?

 

[Helen]

So I am the idiot with Hoshimoto’s who decided on a whim to try RU. I’m not proud of what I did, especially now after reading this thread.

I have been in a really bad place for the last several weeks since starting ARL. ARL has shrunken my genitals to pre-pubescent levels and I think about suicide constantly. One morning I just woke up and said fuck it I’m going to try something different today. I haven’t read any bad cases of RU trials and I have read a number of comments stating it is safe. So I said fuck it and tried it. 3 days of 5-10 mg each day.

My 10 year battle with PFS has just resulted in worsening symptoms to the point where I have a deep feeling of desperation. That’s why I took RU. Because I’m in a desperate “I’ll try anything just to see if something works” situation. Again, I’m not proud of my decision and obviously I regret it since Helen is implying I probably fucked myself big time.

I felt a little better those 3 days while on RU. Lower anxiety. I’ve been off for a week now and shedding hair considerably. Helen suggested I either wait until my progesterone comes back online or use progesterone. I decided to use progesterone. Not sure if it is helping yet. I also purchased l-dopa but have not used it.

So here’s my questions @Helen
Can you walk me through why Hoshimoto’s makes my situation so much worse than someone who doesn’t have Hoshimoto’s? I simply do not yet understand the biology/mechanisms behind it...hoping you can explain it to me.
How would RU impact me differently because of Hoshimoto’s?
How long should I use progesterone cream? I am using a dime sized amount 2x daily at the moment.
What now? Should I go get all my labs and hormones retested to see what RU did to me, or will that not even matter at this point and I’m just fucked?

question is , DID you see anyone who RU worked for in PFS state? What is the reason to take it in the first place. It did not fix anyone.

As I said go on TEI and stay on it. ARL is a slower program and they have calcium in it. This calcium causes shrinkage. but in the long term it will fix you , not in weeks.



Hashimoto is glutathione deficiency. You might run high doses of b1 and b2. ( try electrolytes protocol)

I have read many people did good on B1.

I had no idea what RU did it to you. If you feel ok, then it is ok. It is just I see no reason in it at all.

Usually when you have problems with the thyroid , progesterone is raised to save your ass.


Hair shedding, isn't it what you wanted . your hair to shed again?

 

[Helen]

@Minime

On your hairtest you have copper toxicity. this causes high estrogen, which retains calcium excessively .

you can follow and look for help from @HerrFisch

ARL is a slow program and they give people copper and calcium ( in limcomin) . But it works better in the long term. TEI works faster. but still will cause bad feeling at first.
You will feel a lot of symptoms when you chelate copper. And you will feel weird stuff for months. Forget about your shrinkage. Until you get rid of this stuff, it wont go away.


Just follow Herrfish , he will help you

You might try vitamin E and C, to lower estrogen. in a meantime


Weeks on ARL dont do anything, Also when copper goes into your blood stream, everything gets worse at first.


Since they are raising prolactin with manganese to chelate copper in your case. And prolactin increases calcium , and calcium increases your progesterone and shrinkage gets worse.

This is how the program works. you cant chelate something without feeling bad.



Also look at @Orion , he is post accutane, and he will explain to you what to do also.


All I am saying, that instead of looking at people with similar hairtest as yours and who are post accutane and doing good, you just take random stuff



And I am tired really repeating that ARL and TEI, use contrarian approach , this is why it sticks. they dont subsititute minerals and make you feel better.

They have to use some mineral that will make you feel bad, to chelate the mineral that is causing your problems

But when they do it. All your symptoms get worse than before.

It is like they put your body in the situation even WORSE than before, and make your body get out of it. and when you quit the supplements , you feel better than before



As an example, lets say there is someone with slow metabolism, really slow. You can give this person progesterone. and he will feel better. while on it. but when you take it away, it will be worse than before.


or you can give this person estrogen, and that person will feel terrible on estrogen but when he quits it , he will be better than before.

 

[Minime]

@Minime

On your hairtest you have copper toxicity. this causes high estrogen, which retains calcium excessively .

you can follow and look for help from @HerrFisch

ARL is a slow program and they give people copper and calcium ( in limcomin) . But it works better in the long term. TEI works faster. but still will cause bad feeling at first.
You will feel a lot of symptoms when you chelate copper. And you will feel weird stuff for months. Forget about your shrinkage. Until you get rid of this stuff, it wont go away.


Just follow Herrfish , he will help you

You might try vitamin E and C, to lower estrogen. in a meantime


Weeks on ARL dont do anything, Also when copper goes into your blood stream, everything gets worse at first.


Since they are raising prolactin with manganese to chelate copper in your case. And prolactin increases calcium , and calcium increases your progesterone and shrinkage gets worse.

This is how the program works. you cant chelate something without feeling bad.



Also look at @Orion , he is post accutane, and he will explain to you what to do also.


All I am saying, that instead of looking at people with similar hairtest as yours and who are post accutane and doing good, you just take random stuff



And I am tired really repeating that ARL and TEI, use contrarian approach , this is why it sticks. they dont subsititute minerals and make you feel better.

They have to use some mineral that will make you feel bad, to chelate the mineral that is causing your problems

But when they do it. All your symptoms get worse than before.

It is like they put your body in the situation even WORSE than before, and make your body get out of it. and when you quit the supplements , you feel better than before



As an example, lets say there is someone with slow metabolism, really slow. You can give this person progesterone. and he will feel better. while on it. but when you take it away, it will be worse than before.


or you can give this person estrogen, and that person will feel terrible on estrogen but when he quits it , he will be better than before.

@Helen
Thanks so much for this man. This is very helpful.
Yep...I made a mistake. Hopefully I can recover from it and hopefully it will not take long.
I will use progesterone cream for the next week, then taper off and hopefully the hair shedding will cease. I’m assuming the hair shedding is from an increase in DHT, resulting from the RU.
Anyway, I guess if I’m going to do ARL I just need to suck it up and realize my symptoms will be worse for a while until chelation takes its course.
What is it about calcium that causes shrinkage? My ARL protocol does not include Lincomin. The only calcium I see in my protocol is 250mg in the Paramin. That is not much calcium. I had assumed it was the zinc that was causing the shrinkage.

I will look at the logs of @HerrFisch and @Orion and then decide what I’m going to do next.

If I decide to do the electrolytes protocol, should I halt ARL?

Also thanks for your comments regarding Hoshimoto’s. It does seem strange to me that my progesterone did come through as being high in my labs.

Speaking of labs...should I get new labs done on everything so I have a clearer picture of what’s going on?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[r4ndom]

These should be used only if you understand what you are doing. and test yourself.






YOU need to realize that prolactin is there to retain calcium. After sex it goes up to get calcium, since you lost it with sperm

Same as prolactin goes up during pregnancy to retain more calcium for milk.


It is idiotic people use cabergoline and then expect to get better. If you had low calcium, and you used caber, you will get fucked, since you will upregulate your dopamine , and will be just calcium deficient FOR A LONG TIME

Prolactin lowering drugs should be used only if you have high calcium in urine and high calcium in blood. IN this case prolactin is raised wrongfully. In cases where people have low urine calcium and high blood, prolactin is DOING GOOD JOB retaining calcium , since body is asking for it.


STOP USING DRUGS< STOP Using end products like L-DOPA etc / what is it going to fix. you take it you bypass all the regulations and then when you come off you will have lower dopamine. than before.

This FORUM was created to have a bunch of people trying certain things. We are long past RU and all other drugs.


We are trying things now with anavar etc. But until succesful no one should be on it, either.


We pick well tested people to put on things. But then i see poor people who have very little testing and just go on shit like RU< like caber. thinking they can regulate hormones with them. Playing God and fucking themselves up.




Nitric oxide protocol is taken by Tallglass, I wrote in hairloss section, about it, and that protocol is completely different, it has SODS, it has glutathione components as main component.

Just by creating NO you create oxidative stress, and that is why it is SWITCHED OFF. SO to turn it back on , you need to kill oxidative stress , and not just feed Arginine.



No one follows electrolytes protocol, but people try to follow easy protocol , THEY DONT WORK> you have to know your case and everything about you , to use 2-3 supplements.


WE are close to writing out all the cases here, but you just keep fucking yourself up with drugs, and creating new imbalances in yourself

For some reason people think that adjusting dopamine receptors is just walking in the park and should be just done with no sides and no problems. THIS IS RIDICULOUS.


UNTIL WE figure things out. you should never use END PRODUCTS of metabolism and NEVER USE drugs. that adjust shit. NEVER


I see some people take RU with having hashimoto. FUCKING RIDICULOUS



If you want to help yourself , meanwhile use things that are present in your body, but ARE NOT END PRODUCTS of metabolism.

You can use b vitamins, C , E , A, minerals, fats, etc. These things if you fuck yourself up with them , body can easily get rid of them

But things like Caber, RU, other receptor things with pharmaceutical drugs. THOSE changes can stay in you for a LONG TIME> and if you fuck yourself up , you can stay fucked up for a long time.


I see people with obviously no clue in biochemstry or just even supplements, no clue in mineral balancing. Go on drugs,


If you only took FIN, then when I come up and write out the cases, you have a chance to be fixed.

but if you took like 10 things already, after fin. like caber like this or that. NOTHING will help you, since you are already in a complete different body chemistry.

This is why for new people for people who know very little, your only chance is to follow what works for other people

OR just follow TEI>



UNTIL we figure out things with hormonal ROUTE> Please Please DONT take end products of metabolism. or DRUGS.



The only chance people have now is TEI. TEI knows more than you ,me , and area times 1000000. They are trying to individually fix you.

And people constantly just read one study or listen to Area. or haidut, or me, or some other advice


You need to understand these people dont know anything about regulation of the body. They read studies, and then try to get the picture of regulation in their head. But this picture is so WEAK that it cant be used it does not take into account ANYTHING.

at most it takes into account 2-3 interactions leaving another 20 out.




This is why I put people on drugs like anavar now, with having tests and we actually test thing while on anavar, and while off anavar.

Making sure that everything works as we wanted it to work



PEOPLE WITHOUT TESTS SHOULD NOT TAKE ANYTHING AT ALL/ no separate minerals no separate aminos, NOTHING.

you cant try to take everything together, and hope the body balances itself, but not separate things.


Without TESTs - you fast. you take everything together.


RU and drugs can help in certain cases, but you are taking a huge risk, to be a wrong case.

why does dopamine get upregulated if you are low calcium?

 

[Helen]

why does dopamine get upregulated if you are low calcium?

if you are low calcium , prolactin goes up

 

[r4ndom]

if you are low calcium , prolactin goes up

ahh interesting. i didn't realize prolactin increased dopamine. that makes sense.

how can you increase calcium if you are PFS if the metabolism is so messed up? since there are insulin issues and eating things like milk can cause digestion disturbance?

 

[Helen]

ahh interesting. i didn't realize prolactin increased dopamine. that makes sense.

how can you increase calcium if you are PFS if the metabolism is so messed up? since there are insulin issues and eating things like milk can cause digestion disturbance?

if you are low on calcium , prolactin goes up and dopamine down.

 

[r4ndom]

if you are low on calcium , prolactin goes up and dopamine down.

wait im confused, i thought you just said dopamine is upregulated if you have high prolactin? our dopamine is too high, i agree with this actually, not low.

 

[sanka]

@Helen im following electrolytes protocol and i have good days and some bad days, like today i dont really feel well, the last week i feel amazing. How this can happen? I mean, i just want to know lol. I should change minerals im taking?