Why did I feel so good on Finasteride?

[Continuous Heal]

The below is a repost I made to the Ray Peat forum, which never really got a response. I'm hoping it will here. I've since learned a bit more, and it seems as if dosing with a progestin may have been the reason, before things started to go bad. However the era when Fin was making me feel good, and I had stopped my hairloss was what I strive to get back to.

I have a long saga with Finasteride use, including approximately 7 years of what I would call successful use, and a nearly 5 year battle with the damage the drug ultimately caused.​

​

I've made a lot of progress, but one thing always sticks with me is how great I felt for the bulk of the first 7 years. It was from more than just an attitude perspective, but even hormonally. I was energized, positive, sexual, and had excellent gains at the gym. All better than I was prior to taking the drug. For me this continued almost constantly, until my career began to get more stressful, and the earliest signs were a pounding heart and irrational nervousness heading into meetings, however still feeling relatively good.​

​

The turning point was making a career change into a new company and an extremely stressful role. Within weeks I noticed sores forming on my scalp, and a rapid elevation of the anxiety like symptoms. Months later I developed a dull pain in one of my testicles (which also began to constantly sag), and my doctor had nothing to tell me. That dull pain continued for 6-9 months, while my libido and general health plummeted. My bones felt weak, my energy levels were shot, and I began to experience the early signs of impotence and loss of libido.​

​

From here the story becomes more typical. By the time I decided to stop the drug, I was losing hair regardless of it, and knew something was clearly wrong. Stopping the drug, quitting my job and spending a year in a nearly paralyzed state of anxiety and low energy, and long slow climb back to some form of normalcy. My first big breakthrough was supplementing phosphatidylserine, which seemed to return nerve activity to the scrotum, and significantly improve my sleep quality. My success here began my online research into allopregnenalone, and ultimately to this website.​

​

Long story short, I know fin has been likened to a form of preg, but how was it that I felt so good? Was this a delicate balance of feeling what a special type of progesterone supplement (one that maybe was more effective at boosting androgens?) at the expense of a reduced stress tolerance, which only became an issue when my life got chronically more stressful?​

​

I know no easy answers here, but I wanted to get my story out.​

 

[JonnyCraig]

The below is a repost I made to the Ray Peat forum, which never really got a response. I'm hoping it will here. I've since learned a bit more, and it seems as if dosing with a progestin may have been the reason, before things started to go bad. However the era when Fin was making me feel good, and I had stopped my hairloss was what I strive to get back to.

I have a long saga with Finasteride use, including approximately 7 years of what I would call successful use, and a nearly 5 year battle with the damage the drug ultimately caused.​

​

I've made a lot of progress, but one thing always sticks with me is how great I felt for the bulk of the first 7 years. It was from more than just an attitude perspective, but even hormonally. I was energized, positive, sexual, and had excellent gains at the gym. All better than I was prior to taking the drug. For me this continued almost constantly, until my career began to get more stressful, and the earliest signs were a pounding heart and irrational nervousness heading into meetings, however still feeling relatively good.​

​

The turning point was making a career change into a new company and an extremely stressful role. Within weeks I noticed sores forming on my scalp, and a rapid elevation of the anxiety like symptoms. Months later I developed a dull pain in one of my testicles (which also began to constantly sag), and my doctor had nothing to tell me. That dull pain continued for 6-9 months, while my libido and general health plummeted. My bones felt weak, my energy levels were shot, and I began to experience the early signs of impotence and loss of libido.​

​

From here the story becomes more typical. By the time I decided to stop the drug, I was losing hair regardless of it, and knew something was clearly wrong. Stopping the drug, quitting my job and spending a year in a nearly paralyzed state of anxiety and low energy, and long slow climb back to some form of normalcy. My first big breakthrough was supplementing phosphatidylserine, which seemed to return nerve activity to the scrotum, and significantly improve my sleep quality. My success here began my online research into allopregnenalone, and ultimately to this website.​

​

Long story short, I know fin has been likened to a form of preg, but how was it that I felt so good? Was this a delicate balance of feeling what a special type of progesterone supplement (one that maybe was more effective at boosting androgens?) at the expense of a reduced stress tolerance, which only became an issue when my life got chronically more stressful?​

​

I know no easy answers here, but I wanted to get my story out.​

"All better than I was prior to taking the drug. For me this continued almost constantly, until my career began to get more stressful, and the earliest signs were a pounding heart and irrational nervousness heading into meetings, however still feeling relatively good."

^^Lowered allopreg and likely a host of other imbalances lead to you not being able to handle stress, IMO. (although it's obvious)

"Long story short, I know fin has been likened to a form of preg, but how was it that I felt so good?"

Form of preg? You mean prog? Progesterone is the main starting building block for the synthesis of finasteride.

I don't think the answer is so difficult... finasteride is synthesized in a lab, Progesterone is not, and is 'natural'. Not to say natural means perfectly safe but it certainly won't evoke the same type of symptoms as finasteride typically. It doesn't block allopreg, for one..

I don't know why you felt so good but gbolduev could maybe tell ya

 

[Continuous Heal]

"All better than I was prior to taking the drug. For me this continued almost constantly, until my career began to get more stressful, and the earliest signs were a pounding heart and irrational nervousness heading into meetings, however still feeling relatively good."

^^Lowered allopreg and likely a host of other imbalances lead to you not being able to handle stress, IMO. (although it's obvious)

"Long story short, I know fin has been likened to a form of preg, but how was it that I felt so good?"

Form of preg? You mean prog? Progesterone is the main starting building block for the synthesis of finasteride.

I don't think the answer is so difficult... finasteride is synthesized in a lab, Progesterone is not, and is 'natural'. Not to say natural means perfectly safe but it certainly won't evoke the same type of symptoms as finasteride typically. It doesn't block allopreg, for one..

I don't know why you felt so good but gbolduev could maybe tell ya

Thanks for the reply, agreed on the allo piece.

The post is a bit old (when I still didn't know the difference between progesterone and pregnenolone), however yes, that is what I had meant.

I've seen @gbolduev mention fin optimizing potassium, and was wondering if that would be the result. I don't think just dosing progesterone or a progestin would have such good results. I felt more masculine (despite greatly reducing DHT), had great body temps, great gym results, great sleeps, and excellent libido. With the only weakness being stress response, which almost seems like the Achilles heel that brought me down.

 

[TubZy]

I think gbol mentioned that fin can improve your metabolism at first regarding potassium. Actually, some people claim they get the initial "test" boost from fin initially where energy, libido etc. all increase within the first month but then it drops off.

 

[Continuous Heal]

I think gbol mentioned that fin can improve your metabolism at first regarding potassium. Actually, some people claim they get the initial "test" boost from fin initially where energy, libido etc. all increase within the first month but then it drops off.

I took fin for approximately 7 years, and felt great the majority of that time.... Before things got ugly in a matter of months. There must be something else going on.

 

[Ailaeshiz]

What was your sleep like before going on phosphatidylserine?

 

[TubZy]

I took fin for approximately 7 years, and felt great the majority of that time.... Before things got ugly in a matter of months. There must be something else going on.

The thing is people can take it once get sides/PFS or take it for 15 years straight and then all of sudden they got sides and feel great the past 14 years taking it. It is very odd, I tried looking into it a while back but still can't really understand why. Although, I did hear people reversing PFS symptoms with zinc and copper while taking fin so the entire concept is just so odd.

That is why I was always curious about why some people get PFS and others don't. Like if actually tapering off fin makes a difference or not.

 

[Ailaeshiz]

Maybe it has something to do with our body's ability to handle stress.

 

[jacknap]

The thing is people can take it once get sides/PFS or take it for 15 years straight and then all of sudden they got sides and feel great the past 14 years taking it. It is very odd, I tried looking into it a while back but still can't really understand why. Although, I did hear people reversing PFS symptoms with zinc and copper while taking fin so the entire concept is just so odd.

That is why I was always curious about why some people get PFS and others don't. Like if actually tapering off fin makes a difference or not.

there's the truegrit guy on youtube and got pfs just from one pill. I'm in pfs like state from ru58841 just applied topically once.

I think stress has to do with it. a lot of guys that ive talked to that got PFS got it during a stressful time in their lives. There was twins in swole source and one got pfs and the other didn't. So it shows it's not totally genetic

 

[Continuous Heal]

What was your sleep like before going on phosphatidylserine?

It slowly became awful, and I hadn't really noticed it. As I mentioned, I felt confident what I experienced with PS wasn't placebo effect etc, as I was looking to feel more calm during the day, and that didn't really happen. I hadn't even realized how bad my sleep was until it improved.

My sleeps had become restless, and intermittent. Waking up lots to go to the bathroom, and tossing and turning often. Waking up well before my alarm, and never really feeling relaxed. When I started to have 4-5 nights in a row of solid sleep, it was a black and white contrast.

 

[Continuous Heal]

Maybe it has something to do with our body's ability to handle stress.

As far as I've been able to determine, the very first symptom I had was my heart racing in situations that should not have prompted anxiety/stress.

Years before my crash, when I was stressed out and facing some learned helplessness in college, I had actually made an appointment with my family doctor because I was worried about my heart rate, and what I didn't really recognize as anxiety at the time. Thankfully my life started to improve, and all of these issues went away, my hair was perfect, and I felt great.

The next possible symptoms I had were ~4 years later when working in a professional job. I could get my heart racing going into routine meetings, however could calm myself down. I may have started to feel some brain fog around this time as well. Despite this, still felt generally good

Within a year of what I just mentioned, I changed jobs, cities and industries. If anyone knows finance, I began working in investment banking, which is a true boiler room lifestyle. Working 80-100 hours a week, with zero room for error. The onset was extremely obvious. Shedding, sores on my scalp, and a constant state of anxiety that I got used to. One weekend a pain began in my left testicle, and this didn't stop for the next year I kept taking it. By the time I stopped, I was in horrible shape anxiety wise, and the damage was done. There was no post fin crash. At the time I stopped, I had essentially no ability to get an erection, and was experiencing what I could only describe as PTSD.

I quit my six figure job and stayed in my condo for a year. My heart would race every time I saw someone in a suit. (Read about the connection between allopregnanolone and PTSD. I can also remember feeling a nerve type tingling at the back of my scrotum within a couple of weeks of stopping fin.

I have no doubt that at least in my case stress response was the trigger, with a huge connection to allopregnanolone. The role allo plays in the myelin sheath in my mind explains the loss of sensation and nerves, and when PS helped my stress response, it also returned some of the nerve response in the area. Unfortunately I don't believe this is the whole story. While I've made incredible progress, am essentially fully functional sexually (though far from normal libido), there is still something very wrong. Supplementing 5A-DHP was very interesting, I felt improvements in ways I struggle to even describe, however it did not help the whole of my symptoms.

I am sure my body is still very sensitive to DHT, when I recently went back on PS, the first couple of nights I could feel it immediately. Much more pleasurable sex, and waking up with my scalp itching. I've never taken something to stimulate DHT directly, though that may be my next step.

 

[TubZy]

there's the truegrit guy on youtube and got pfs just from one pill. I'm in pfs like state from ru58841 just applied topically once.

I think stress has to do with it. a lot of guys that ive talked to that got PFS got it during a stressful time in their lives. There was twins in swole source and one got pfs and the other didn't. So it shows it's not totally genetic

Yeah, RU58841 basically does the same thing a fin it just skips the "progestin" part that fin is derived from that is why it doesn't effect 5AR and just blocks the receptor. I'm assuming since RU58841 blocks DHT and T from binding to the AR this would allow progesterone to bind to it instead. Which is basically how it causes the same sides as fin even though it doesn't touch 5AR. I remember that stuff gave me brain fog too.

 

[Shadow]

It is pretty hard for me to handle the fact that a SINGLE pill can do this, I know that people got PFS, PSSD and PAS with 1-3 pills.
And this is why I dont believe the hypothesis who are based on: actual damage, epigenetics and depletion. As Ghost once said: "whatever happened, had the ability to happens fast!"

Something "fell up" and got stuck, We must be trapped in some bad loop.

 

[expendable]

It is pretty hard for me to handle the fact that a SINGLE pill can do this, I know that people got PFS, PSSD and PAS with 1-3 pills.
And this is why I dont believe the hypothesis who are based on: actual damage, epigenetics and depletion. As Ghost once said: "whatever happened, had the ability to happens fast!"

Something "fell up" and got stuck, We must be trapped in some bad loop.

Aye. For the record, I got PSSD from 1 pill. No joke. Of course, on the other end are people who took fin for years and got pfs randomly before they even finished taking fin. What the hell.

 

[Ailaeshiz]

It is pretty hard for me to handle the fact that a SINGLE pill can do this, I know that people got PFS, PSSD and PAS with 1-3 pills.
And this is why I dont believe the hypothesis who are based on: actual damage, epigenetics and depletion. As Ghost once said: "whatever happened, had the ability to happens fast!"

Something "fell up" and got stuck, We must be trapped in some bad loop.

I think you're right about the loop part. If only we could find some way to reset our bodies.

 

[Aflac94]

Definitely a change in the brain and body due to the drugs interaction rather than a toxicity or build up.
I got PFS from one pill. If this hand not happened to me I wouldnt believe it myself, so I don't blame others really for not believing. I didn't even believe myself sometimes until I read enough reports online of others talking about the same weird disconnect and symptoms of just feeling different.

I feel like a 29 year old trapped in a 70 year old body - no drive, no adrenaline, no dopamine feeling in my body. My mind is fine, but some system in my brain/body was altered or shutdown

 

[Continuous Heal]

Definitely a change in the brain and body due to the drugs interaction rather than a toxicity or build up.
I got PFS from one pill. If this hand not happened to me I wouldnt believe it myself, so I don't blame others really for not believing. I didn't even believe myself sometimes until I read enough reports online of others talking about the same weird disconnect and symptoms of just feeling different.

I feel like a 29 year old trapped in a 70 year old body - no drive, no adrenaline, no dopamine feeling in my body. My mind is fine, but some system in my brain/body was altered or shutdown

How stressful was your life during the time you took the pill?

 

[Aflac94]

How stressful was your life during the time you took the pill?

high stress to be honest. My body used to be very sympathetic, lots of adrenaline which was good and bad

I felt better about a week after taking the pill. Back to normal or even increased androgen.Then 2 months later was the change to by chemistry, in the middle of the night (march 2016) I woke up in a way I had never been woken up before, like my brain was overexcited and I felt so bad physically, thought I should go to the ER, but didn't. Haven't been back to myself since

 

[Ailaeshiz]

Well, it could've been a complete coincidence, but yesterday I took 200mg of phosphatidylserine, and for the first time in about a month I had a deep sleep, with dreams, and no premature waking. Have you tried any other phospholipids @Continuous Heal ?

 

[Continuous Heal]

Well, it could've been a complete coincidence, but yesterday I took 200mg of phosphatidylserine, and for the first time in about a month I had a deep sleep, with dreams, and no premature waking. Have you tried any other phospholipids @Continuous Heal ?

I would up your dose to 3-400. Definitely take at least 100 an hour before bed.

I tried PC, over a year after starting PS, and I didn't feel much benefit.