Why is TRT such a bad thing?

[merebalacy]

If a 40 year old man has extremely low levels of test, why not get replacement therapy?

 

[Yura]

I would say you should fix everything else first. Because if your life style, diet, sleep, stress everything is shit it is stupid to just start taking steroids. When you over exercise and under eat your testosterone will tank like crazy. Does that mean the ideal treatment is taking testosterone? No the ideal treatment is to exercise less and eat more. That is my common sense and how it should be done. But if someone doesn't give a shit wants to drink, eat junk, not sleep and take testosterone to feel somewhat better for a while it is his body. Who gives a shit..

 

[RebelWithACause]

It bypasses your own hormone system and keeps test/estrogen high which means you will get more of those minerals (iron copper). Plus I think it affects chromium balance too. Helen talked about it a bunch.

Let's say you are high on those minerals already it just makes things worse.

That being said for some people it might be the best option to still live a good life. It really depends on the body and situation. I have seen some guys who's lives are better because of TRT.

 

[bruschi11]

It bypasses your own hormone system and keeps test/estrogen high which means you will get more of those minerals (iron copper). Plus I think it affects chromium balance too. Helen talked about it a bunch.

Let's say you are high on those minerals already it just makes things worse.

That being said for some people it might be the best option to still live a good life. It really depends on the body and situation. I have seen some guys who's lives are better because of TRT.

I think we want estrone before e2 and test. Cuz estrone = d receptor = methylation as it makes b2 work. Cuz d receptor = selenium utilization.

Hence why we like 4 andro. 1 andro. Things that feed all the pathways at once.

 

[TubZy]

iron and copper toxicity

 

[Yura]

iron and copper toxicity

Can you pls explain what you think is the mechanism of copper toxicity from steroids? Is it zinc depletion? Cholestasis? Copper retention from high estradiol? The last one is I believe the cause in my case. Because I really had elevated estradiol like crazy. No wonder when I was on cycles like test mix + nandrolone + dbol.. THey all convert to estrogen.. So in my case I believe that soaked my body with metals especially copper and now I have the opposite issue. Estradiol almost out of ref. range deficient, copper low in serum.. Because my body simply doesn't want any extra copper so that is why my estradiol is tanked?

 

[RebelWithACause]

Can you pls explain what you think is the mechanism of copper toxicity from steroids? Is it zinc depletion? Cholestasis? Copper retention from high estradiol? The last one is I believe the cause in my case. Because I really had elevated estradiol like crazy. No wonder when I was on cycles like test mix + nandrolone + dbol.. THey all convert to estrogen.. So in my case I believe that soaked my body with metals especially copper and now I have the opposite issue. Estradiol almost out of ref. range deficient, copper low in serum.. Because my body simply doesn't want any extra copper so that is why my estradiol is tanked?

I think copper retention from high estradiol. Just like iron retention. And it slows your metabolism so you don't even use the iron or copper lol It also affect chromium balance. Helen posted it somewhere. Just like finasteride.

 

[bruschi11]

Pretty sure it’s e2 upregulates hif1a. Hif1a pressures VHL. VHL is needed for vitamin A metabolism .

VHL is basically body’s natural usage of iodine and selenium. Hif1 is more about nrf2 upregulation it seems.

We need both VHL and hif1.

Currently I’m shaking in bed as I’m having a bad morning. Body is producing too much hydrogen shrinking my brain. I believe it’s upregulation of hif1.

 

[Yura]

@bruschi11 Sorry to hear that.. is that the same as molecular hydrogen from hydrogen rich water etc.? I felt also really weird head feeling while drinking hydrogen rich water.. Somewhat similar like when I was taking chlorella or high dose iodine. Oxidative damage or moving heavy metals around or something..

 

[bruschi11]

@bruschi11 Sorry to hear that.. is that the same as molecular hydrogen from hydrogen rich water etc.? I felt also really weird head feeling while drinking hydrogen rich water.. Somewhat similar like when I was taking chlorella or high dose iodine. Oxidative damage or moving heavy metals around or something..

Yes well draining hydrogen is different than making it. Upregulated hif1 makes body produce too much hydrogen. Carbon Monoxide can increase too. Vitamin A metabolism dies and iron copper can’t be made available from liver. Sulfite metabolism also dies . And you’ll see low sulfur in an htma with someone who has hif1 upregulation.

 

[MNK99]

Helps my heds and anxiety and depression probably ADHD a but
Possibly CPTSD and autism tho nofap and the like … carnivore help that more.

Test cream that ups 5AR.
Sexual health too esp w Norse and lifting maybe no dex.

Tho that’s good for sex often.

Same time… ya id like no meds.
This is for post pfs.
And rather mostly for ADHD, MOOD, ANXIETY, AND SEEING IF IT HELPS CPTSD.
THINK IT DOES. ALSO IT DOES HELP hEDS/HSD.

LESS pain easier to work sustain effort lowers dex dodge.
So does carnivore.

I think my ADHD is at godtier levels, hence unlike others carnivore ish doesn’t get rid of it’s need lowers dose tho.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

eventualy someone can go for t + prog if really want to go on cycle.
rebel post earlier this year guy on trt who got cancer, so this cooper iron toxicity is not a lie

 

[MNK99]

I’m on test and prog months ya

 

[MNK99]

Never said

eventualy someone can go for t + prog if really want to go on cycle.
rebel post earlier this year guy on trt who got cancer, so this cooper iron toxicity is not a lie

Never said it was
Literally talked to that dude
Surely yrs of drinking and eating like a horse must have done damage too

Some ppl hyper respond to certain meds like certain anabolics like me.
Very lucky (ya well defective collagen and super hi iq is lucky and unlucky too).

 

[MNK99]

Im not gonna live saintly when I did all twenties and thirties when I have startups ai law firm
LSAT retake to beat 99% world rather than 93-94

Trading 3 markets
Need to be good now
Also anyone else’s neck and shoulders dislocate yrs after fixing PSSD and PFS

Some ppl need meds
Not gonna waste more yrs depressed and sad when women actually like me .

May as well take test and dex
I work four full time 247 jobs the fk im sup to do

 

[TubZy]

Wanted to add this quote from another classic thread regarding TRT/steroids that is loaded with info I totally forgot about

VERY BAD NEWS (DHT, Fibrosis, Scars,DMSO, Moles, NO, B1, B2)

I like the horse chestnut extract (escine) and the calendula oil in it, but how the hell can you use a DMSO product that is packaged in plastic? The pump is plastic as well and I doubt that can be internally coated with something protective... Ingredients: DMSO (25% by volume; derived from...

hackstas.is

Potassium softens vascular endothelium and increases nitric oxide release


You need to support potassium , since steroids waste potassium. without potassium - ZERO nitric oxide release, since NO is a duaretic.


If you have such crazy scarring and stuff, my advice, supports your electrolytes, and follow and take advice from @Orion

he is post accutane and doing good.

@Orion Help your buddy accutane sufferer here/


Nitric oxide protocol is just castrated electrolytes protocol. I think it is best for you to follow the electrolytes protocol, so you get hydrated well again and so yourbody can start restoring the tissue, and increase CO2 and nitric oxide ,


PEOPLE need to realize . STEROIDS waste potassium , should never be taken EVER unless you want to dry out, and age.

Steroids will always age you. Will always make you live much shorter life it is inevitable

The reason why steroids go down with age, POTASSIUM DEFICIENCY .

Potassium will allow LH to go up. Potassium,Testosterone & Muscle - Testosterone Studies

Since when steroids go up, then estrogen retains CALCIUM and DHT SODIUM.

 

[bruschi11]

Wanted to add this quote from another classic thread regarding TRT/steroids that is loaded with info I totally forgot about

VERY BAD NEWS (DHT, Fibrosis, Scars,DMSO, Moles, NO, B1, B2)

I like the horse chestnut extract (escine) and the calendula oil in it, but how the hell can you use a DMSO product that is packaged in plastic? The pump is plastic as well and I doubt that can be internally coated with something protective... Ingredients: DMSO (25% by volume; derived from...

hackstas.is

I think the one thing Helen is missing regarding steroids is the impact on VDR by estrone sulfate retaining chromium in the body.

Without chromium we can’t make iron copper available. Chromium going down in men is why men like steroids. And we need chromium to fix our potassium as chromium responsible for the whole b2 —-> b12 utilization pathway. Glycine recycling.

He’s spot on about potassium. And this is the piece that’s tough. But we can’t use potassium or retain it without the enzyme systems that really do revolve around chromium.

I can’t believe I might be too late. Cuz steroid cycles with just dhea were saving my ass in 2022. I was missing a few things like k2 at the time. Calcium.

Now. I just don’t know what’s gonna happen. I’m gonna be 37 next month. Almost 3 full years since November 2022 the last time I had a decent day on this planet.

 

[Yura]

@bruschi11 it is interesting that nobody in nutritional balancing or here on hackstasis ever talked about chromium. The only place where I was reading about chromium stuff like it is most related element to copper etc.. Chromium Copper DRI/RDA, benefits, side effects, overdose, toxicity, requirements
What is interesting when I started taking chromium after my first hair test. It wen even lower on second test.. Can't wait to do new hair test to see what is going on there..

 

[bruschi11]

@Yura Gbold did a whole chromium imbalance in pfs post here. I think you can find it here.

It’s literally the key to iron and copper availability.

I think the problem is as iron copper come up it’s, it’s tough on zinc in the brain where we need it.

 

[Yura]

Ok will try to find it and read it...